An interesting quote I found is, in act one after Krogstad leaves, Helmer and Nora talks. Helmet says,"Helmer:Practically all juvenile delinquents come from homes where the mother is dishonest....but of course fathers can have the same influence...Krogstad been poisoning his own children for years with lies and deceit. That's the reason I call him morally depraved"( Act I pg 33). I find this ironic. He talks about how Krogstad has moral deficiencies and lies. When his wife is lying to him. But more importantly I find it interesting how he thinks moral nature is inherited. But I find it interesting how Helmer treats Dr. Rank as an equal, because he has a disease.Helmer seems to be oblivious to the fact and I find it interesting how Dr. Rank wants to stay away from Helmer because he "loathes anything that's ugly". And also how Rank asks,"why should I suffer for another man's sins?" (II. 45). Which suggests that he thinks his father is the reason he has the disease so it seems like disease and moral nature is an inheritance in this play.
Do you think this shows what Trovald thinks of himself. Trovald is definitely not the most pure man who seems to also ignore his children and his wife. Yet he goes off and talks about Krogstad and his moral poisoning. So this must mean Trovald thinks of himself much better than everyone in his surroundings although it is very hypocritical in some sense,
I believe that all this talk of unmoral households is what spurred Nora to leave her children. To the external eye, it may appear that Nora acts selfishly, looking out for herself above the children. However, Nora believed that her consequential actions would harm the children and doom them to a dreadful life. Nora really did think what she did was best for Nora's children. By leaving them, Nora believed that she was giving them a chance to grow up right.
Now that my group has gotten through half the book together with three different translations we have noticed that the version of a book can change the entire diction of a simple sentence. In one version the book calls Noras dress for the ball/dance a costume, however in Alli and I’s translation it calls the outfit just a dress. This is a clear opposition. We all know that deception is frequent in this book so the word “Costume” can be another symbol for hiding true identity. However if we take the regular translation we can’t gather that symbol and changes that whole section. Also when Helmer calls Nora “Little Miss Obstinate” (Act II, pg. 36) we feel the negative connotation however in Mi’s book he calls her “Little Miss Stubborn”(Act II, pg. 36) our group felt that both words can be demeaning however they affect the tone so differently. One creates tension (Obstinate) and another just makes you feel like he might think her actions are headstrong (Stubborn). So it’s clear that a simple change of one word can really make us change our opinions on what is happening in the book. One last example is how Nora tells helmer that he is acting “Narrow-minded” but again in Mi’s book it calls him petty and we know from reading it that the word is repeated many times. So why would a more modern translation change the word? Because depending on how you look at Nora’s actions and how Helmer reacts he can be acting Petty and Childish. However my group also saw that his actions made him narrow minded. So good job to the translators...except for the part where the difference between “Narrow-minded actions” and “Petty Behavior” on the tone is massive. Narrow-Minded leaves room for improvement where as petty leaves only room for more accusation. To conclude my group has learned that the translation matters when reflecting on Language, diction, syntax, and Imagery.
The Christmas tree seen in Acts I and II of Doll's House is a clear symbol of the changes in Nora's life. Near the end of Act I, Nora says, "There's nothing to worry about. We'll have a lovely Christmas tree." (Act I. 30). Just like the Christmas tree, Nora believes that if she looks pretty and plays the part of a perfect wife, her worries will disapear. However, Nora's lovely life is but an external disguise, similar to the ornaments she is decorating the tree with. They look lovely, but the core of the stem remains unchanged. At the beginning of Act II, the tree is described as being, "stripped, bedraggled, and with the candles burnt out."(Act II. 35). The tree's state is akin to Nora's current emotional condition. Just as the tree's beautiful exterior has fallen away, Nora's mask of lies and deceit is crumbling. However bedraggled the tree appears, the transition is actually necessary to improve. A Christmas tree must shed its decorations and be tossed on the curb before it can be recycled into something better. Although many changes appear bad at the time, life often gets worse before it gets better. Just like the tree, Nora is bound to be transformed into something bigger and better after she lets go of the external beauty of her current life.
I found it really interesting how Mrs Linde was introduced into the story. She first shows up and Nora hardly recognizes her. Yet within a matter of minutes Nora is revealing all her secrets to her. This tells use that Nora is not good a keeping secrets and feels the need to tell them to someone. Could this be her fatal character flaw? It also shows how Nora is the type of person who is proud of her clever deception that she has pulled of thus far in the play. Mrs. Linde who was originally just an old friend is now so deeply involved in Nora's life to the extent that she cannot really escape or back out. I found it interesting how Nora almost immediately trusts Mrs. Linde without hesitation. Do you think Mrs Linde is actually who she says she is or does she have some underlying secrets of her own. Do you think she will keep Nora's secrets?
This is so weird to think about because I want myself to think that Mrs. Linde is not going to say anything but at the same time I feel like she is going to somehow revel all of the secrets. Whether it is through someone else or herself just telling them to a group of people. The sneakiness is going to rub off on Mrs. Linde and I think that Nora has not had someone to revel anything too in a long time and Mrs. Linde came into her life again at the right time and Nora instantly trusted her because she needed some one to "vent" to.
I think that Nora needs someone to tell her secrets to. I feel like Torvald and Nora's relationship isn't strong enough to handle secrets, so Nora needs another way out. It is very interesting, however, to think about Mrs. Linde's secrets, I never thought about her having her own!
This is an interesting point to bring up. Nora must be so constricted to live the life that accommodate to Torvalds so I think she has to rant to whoever. Since she has to keep so many secrets within her own family and her husband and she had to keep that to herself it would be very hard to not tell all to a friend that comes. That is why she enjoys Dr. Rank's visits so much because she can be a little flirty with him and live a little out of the shell.
I found it very interesting how in Act 2, Torvald acts very caring and loving towards Nora. On page 36 he says, "But I forgive you nevertheless, because it is such eloquent witness to your great love for me. And that is as it should be, my own darling Nora. Come what will, may be sure I shall have both courage and strength if they be needed. You will see I am man enough to take everything upon myself." This quote shows Torvald's love towards his wife. He is also very forgiving of Nora when she tells him to not send out Krogstad's dismissal letter. He does not get angry with her or yell at her. He shows her compassion and patience especially when she keeps nagging him. I think that he would also potentially be forgiving of her if she were to ever tell him about borrowing money. Because Torvald loves his wife, I think that he would be angry at first with her decision but then he would forgiving and help her pay off the loan. It almost seems like Nora is overreacting and blowing up the whole situation. I think that it is unnecessary for her to want to run away or even potentially kill herself.
Do you REALLY think he loves her? Or does he love the idea of having a perfect doll wife? I mean, I have to question the motives behind someone saying "I'm man enough." Seriosuly. Ms. Ballard
Alisa! When I first read the book, I thought that Helmer really loves and accepts Nora for who she really is. Based on what Ms. Ballard asked, I don't think Helmer loves Nora for who she really is. Helmer is a very self-absorbed man who's is greatly concerned with work manners rather than his own family. It is evident that he doesn't have much control over his work as he is constantly stressed out, but what he has control over is his own wife. He has a deep desire to have the perfect Victorian-era wife who is obedient and submissive; a woman he can control and criticize. He does care about her well-being as she is his wife, but his definition of 'love' is different than the definition in today's society.
In Act II, Nora has another encounter with Dr. Rank. This time it was a more intimate and personal conversation with the last. Dr Rank goes too far and upsets Nora however puts on this fake smile. The stage directions describing this are, “She sits down on the rocking chair and smiles” (II.49). The rocking chair symbolizes a more superior position than the other chairs. Nora takes it instead of offering it to Doctor Rank, the guest. This shows how Nora sees less of him now that he has over spoke. Nora, although upset, does these things with a smile. Because women in this time period were supposed to put on a perfect and cheery look, Nora puts on this facade that the readers can identify which adds to all of Nora’s deceptions
Do you think Nora sitting down could signal that she is more comfortable with Dr. Rank than others? And the fact that she sits in a rocking chair indicates she clearly doesn't want him to sit with her, so is that a signal of her defiance toward him?
I think Carla is right in saying that Nora is sitting down because she is more comfortable with Dr. Rank. In the second act, Nora's conversation with Dr. Rank shows a stronger relationship between them than the one between Helmer and Nora. Nora has also never been seat with Helmer in the room which also increases the likelihood that she sat because she felt comfortable around Dr. Rank.
In Act II, the reader is able to gain a closer perspective of the multiple relationships evolving, especially the one between Nora and Helmer. Ever since the first page of the book, Nora was portrayed as a 'sheltered' wife who couldn't do much on her own as she was desperately depended on her husband. Such perspective starts to slowly change as the reader sees her actions and understands her motives as the play evolves. Especially in Act II, Nora intentionally belittles herself in front of Helmer to get what she wants. She shamelessly states: "If a little squirrel were to ask so nicely...and the pretty little sky-lark would sing all day long.."(41). Throughout this passage, Nora is trying to convince Helmer to allow Krogstad to keep his job at the bank and she certainly knows how to convince him to do it. She is purposely calling herself a 'squirrel' and 'little sky-lark' in order to get what she wants. She is aware that Helmer loves to be dominant, and by giving into his pleasure, she is trying to upkeep her own interests. If Krogstad was fired from the bank, her whole life would be destroyed as her darkest secrets would be revealed. The sudden change of tone allows the reader to understand that Nora isn't as childish and dumb as she was made to be in the beginning of the novel. She is rather manipulative towards her husband because she knows he will satisfy her wishes if she was seen as a 'damsel in distress' who desperately needs Helmer's help to get out of a situation. Nora is willing to play desperate in order to achieve what she wants, which is really intelligent and obnoxious at the same time. Helmer wouldn't want to see her wife upset, therefore she tells him that if she gets her way, she would be 'singing all day long' like a sky-lark.
While reading through this play, I have found that irony is one of the main literary devices used to describe Nora and her sneakiness. Nora often contradicts herself and could be categorized as a compulsive liar. In Act II the conversation between Mrs. Linde and Nora becomes very strange when Mrs. Linde says that Torvald had no idea who she even was when she first arrived. This is when Nora says, “Torvald is so terribly in love with me that he says he wants me all to himself. When we were first married, it even used to make him sort of jealous if I only as much mentioned any of my old friends from back home” (38). I found this to be very interesting due to the fact that Nora claims Torvald would be jealous of Nora having friends that are women like Mrs. Linde. This didn’t add up for me because of the simple fact that Torvald should only be jealous of other men who are possibly attempting to have Nora as a mate of their own. This again goes along with the idea that Nora lies just to get out of uncomfortable situations where she knows she is in trouble.
I also agree with you that Nora tends to lie her way out of things. I think she said to Mrs. Linde that Torvald would be jealous to show off and brag about how much her husband really loves her, but in reality she doesn't nearly gets as much affection and love from him, and so therefore she compensates by lying. I also think Nora feels under appreciated which leads to her sneakiness and desire for independence and power.
Act two really put preposterous image on Nora. My group and I came to the conclusion that we think Dr. Rank and Nora’s relationship is a desire for one another. Dr. Rank has a secret love for her and although, his actions do not really have a direct effect on the play he brings an affect to other characters in the play. In my opinion, I think that he creates Nora’s nervousness to increase and makes her become even more rebellious. I feel like there is emerging doubt of feelings towards Torvald from Nora. Some of the things that Dr. Ranks says to Nora make the reader feel like there is going to be something between of the two of them because it should be said to Torvald. On page 48 the conversation between Nora and Dr. Rank is about trust and how strong their friendship is. Rank says, “Who wouldn’t gladly give his life for your sake.” And that makes me feel like he would drop anything for her whether it creates a bigger problem for other people or adds to the sneakiness. Nora also says that the relationship between her husband, Torvald, and herself was a lot similar to her fathers. She loved her father so much in a fatherly way that I think that she secretly loves Dr. Rank in a romantic way. This is such a broad statement that it could go in many different directions, what do you guys think? Ibsen put Dr. Rank in the play not only to create dynamic, but to help bring attention to other characters.
I also thought it was interesting how when when Dr. Rank shows up, Nora says something like "Oh I always have time for you" and this seems flirty. But then when Dr. Rank admits that he loves Nora, she gets all bent out of shape and upset. I found that really confusing, it's as if she likes the thought of loving him, but when he says it, it becomes real and she doesn't like that.
Throughout “A Doll’s House”, I noticed that in most cases, Nora and Torvald’s conversations end when “he goes into his study and shuts the door behind him” (act 1 pg.33) and “goes with his papers into his room, and shuts the door behind him” (act 2 pg.44). Just as actions speak louder than words, the use of stage directions contributes to Torvald’s character development. The stage direction repeatedly mentions how he always goes into his room when he’s done talking to Nora. This indicates that Torvald doesn’t have much to do with the household since he thinks that he’s too masculine to handle and care the household. Because fathers during that period aren’t very close to their children, Ibsen wants to display Torvald as the typical middle-class Victorian guy who works all day long and spend more time at home on his paper work rather than spending his time with his wife and children, which is too “feminine” for a person who cares for his self image like him to do. Even though Torvald’s actions are so insignificant and easily overlooked, it shows that he is self-absorbed and cares for his appearance and how people think of him. This makes the reader feel that Torvald isn’t such a significant character because all he does is go to work and go home and spend all his time in his room. His only role for the book is being the typical man during the Victorian age.
As we read Act II, many interesting secrets are revealed. Looking back at Act I, there wasn’t very many notable events worth mentioning, mainly because Act I introduces the characters and allows readers to make an opinion (first impression) about each them. Act II is where all the excitement and action starts. As we discovered in Act I, Nora is a big liar. In Act II, we find out that Nora and Dr. Rank have a love affair, which struck me by surprise because it wasn’t acceptable to have a love affair, especially during the Victorian era where the culture was a very strict Puritan lifestyle. Near the beginning of Act II, we see that Nora and Dr. Rank have a secretive conversation while Helmer is in his study, especially after Helmer told Nora to tell Dr. Rank to go to his study when he arrives, which is evidence that Nora and Dr. Rank are more than just normal friends. In their conversation, Rank mentions that his “tuberculosis of the spine” is worsening and death will soon catch up to him. Nora responds very angrily because 1) she doesn’t want Dr. Rank to die because she loves him, and 2) she doesn’t want Dr. Rank to be in a bad mood also because she loves him. Amidst this moment of sorrow, Dr. Rank brings up his dad. He says, “My poor spine is innocent, but my father was a soldier and he enjoyed his life, so I must suffer... Especially the unhappy spine that’s had no pleasure from them at all.” (55-56). From this, we see that Dr. Rank is talking about sexual abuse. “My poor spine is innocent” suggests that Dr. Rank was not the one at fault for getting tuberculosis of the spine (aka syphilis); he was the victim. “No pleasure” indicates that he was forced and didn’t have a choice, which shows the abuse that he faced. Dr. Rank states that his father was a soldier, which has an underlying meaning. A soldier is perceived as a very strong and mighty individual who will fight for the freedom of his/her country. I believe that Ibsen is saying that Dr. Rank’s father is someone who will fight for whatever he wants to achieve and will manipulate others to get what he wants, in this case, sexual abuse. Even though this part of Nora and Dr. Rank’s conversation is very sad and disturbing, the two take this subject very lightly, like it’s no big deal. Nora and Dr. Rank even smile right after they talk about this subject. I found it odd that they would just glance over this important subject. Overall, I thought that Act II was very interesting to read because many unexpected secrets were spilled out, and I’m looking forward to the progression of Nora throughout the rest of the play.
I also looked at this quote in my paragraph. The point you brought up about his father being a soldier is really interesting--I didn't think to look up what "subaltern" meant. It's interesting how Dr. Rank doesn't possess the same qualities his father had; in fact, he appears to have the opposite qualities. I agree that it's strange how the subject of Rank's abuse is glanced over in this play. Most works of literature, when they feature abused characters, make that abuse central to that character. For Rank, it seems to be a peripheral quality at best. Do you think this minimization of Rank's abuse is significant in this play?
Nurse: oh well, young children easily get accustomed to anything. Nora: Do you think so? Do you think they would forget their mother if she went away altogether? (Act II. Pg. 52)
First of all, spoiler warning to anyone who hasn't read "A Doll's House" or doesn't know how it ends. I find this quote very interesting because it evidently foreshadows Nora's future abandonment of her family. There have been other instances that allude to her leaving, but none quite so explicit as this one. At this point, Nora is seriously considering leaving her family and it has gone beyond just thinking about it. This use of foreshadowing is very important to the play for multiple reasons. One, it brings the build up closer until the big reveal. Second , it demonstrates tremendous character development on Nora's part. In Act 1, Nora is often undermined and considered a child. She wants to stay at home and play with the children; she is essentially a doll. In Act 2 however, Nora has done some considerable thinking about her dilemma and considers leaving. Now this can be interpreted multiple ways. It can be interpreted as character growth for Nora in that she decidedly rejects the societal role of women and decides to live her own life independent of others. By leaving her family, Nora is no longer a child, or doll, and has grown to become a strong individual capable of her own thoughts and decisions. On the other hand, it can also be considered extremely selfish and inconsiderate on her part for leaving her husband and children to live on their own. A mother leaving her own child is rare and often looked down upon. Even though Nora doesn't want to leave her children, it is still interpreted as neglectful. Again, however, Nora's abandonment coneys a strong message of rejection of the common social norms held during the Victorian era about mothers' roles. In either perspective, it is observable that Nora changes dramatically throughout the course of "A Doll's House" and foreshadowing is a highly effective method of demonstrating these changes.
Just when I thought that this play was going to be really boring, it turned out to be a little bit more exciting than that in Act II. The play introduced several new wrinkles into the fabric of its plot in Act II, the most shocking of which was the revelation by Dr. Rank that he was sexually abused by his father. However, this revelation’s greatest impact was its continuation of Nora’s childish characterization. Rank tells Nora, “My poor innocent spine must do penance for my father’s gay subaltern life” (II, 46). This is his rather euphemistic way of telling Nora that he contracted syphilis from his father, who himself contracted it due to his lascivious lifestyle. It creates a fairly sad tone for the conversation, with Rank telling Nora that he did not choose to die of syphilis and did not contract it due to his moral failings, rather, it was forced onto him by his perverted father. However, Nora seems to treat this statement as something humorous, first asking Rank about his father’s culinary preferences, then adding, “It does seem a pity all these delicious things should attack the spine” (II, 46). The “spine” being referred to by both characters is not an actual spine, but is a metaphor for moral fortitude (and a fairly common metaphor at that, as people without conviction are often called “spineless” in modern society). Nora’s reaction to Rank talking about his sexual abuse strengthens her childish characterization because she behaves in a childish manner—she ignores the serious issue at hand to talk about food, and then wishes that her constitution could be unaffected by giving in to temptation, effectively wanting to have her cake and eat it too. The contradiction of Nora’s upbeat and humorous attitude with the sad tone created by Rank’s statement only further enhances the childish characterization of Nora. This was only a couple lines of the play, but this passage made a significant impact in that it cemented Nora’s childish characterization in this play.
I think Nora's comment about Torvald's jealousy is pretty interesting. She says "It even used to make him sort of jealous if I only as much as mentioned any of my old friends from back home. So of course I stopped doing it." (38) This lends itself to the idea that Nora and Torvald weren't really members of society until they were married. I think their marriage is such a large part of both their identities that both Nora as much as Torvald are willing to put on a content face in order to maintain their relationship. Even though neither seem to truly love each other, they love the idea of a perfect household. Nora's real feelings are held for Dr. Rank. Even though she may not be in love with him, Nora is noticeably closer with Dr. Rank than with her husband. In the same sentence as where she mentions Torvald's jealousy, Nora says "But I often talk to Dr. Rank about such things. He likes hearing about them." (38) Dr. Rank probably does not really enjoy Nora's stories, but rather enjoys Nora herself which is why he is willing to sit and listen to her. Nora goes as far as to say "being with Torvald is a little like being with papa". If Torvald is more like a father-figure to Nora, we see that their relationship is clearly an empty one, as marriages don't usually have a father-figure. Nora's attitude is at times childish, and she treats her children more like her equals, so I wonder if Nora's progression into adulthood is more of a fulfillment of an expectation than a true transformation. When her conversation with Dr. Rank takes a more depressing tone, Nora teases him by hitting him with her stockings. This is a childish act and shows her lack of maturity. Overall I think Nora uses her marriage with Torvald as a way to establish herself as a real adult, and a true member of society, even though she is not there emotionally.
I agree with your analysis. It's very interesting now that someone has explicitly stated it--I hadn't given this aspect of the play much thought, but now it seems almost impossible to overlook. What do you think of Dr. Rank's confession of his love to Nora? Clearly they had shared a special sort of connection up until this point, so then why did Nora suddenly push away once everything was out in the open? Did Dr. Rank think anything would happen as a result of him admitting his true feelings?
Nora - "Well, you see, there are those people you love and those people you'd rather be with"(50)
This quote was what Nora said to Dr. Rank after he said that he thought Nora might be with him. I interpreted this as she loves Helmer, and she would rather just be friends with Rank. The use of italics on the word "be" gives that impression. Without it, one could think she means be with, like be in a relationship with. Another interpretation somebody could have had, is that Nora actually does love Rank, but she would rather be married and live with Helmer. This could be backed up by the fact that Nora likes the attention and love that Helmer gives her. The reader also may have gotten thisidea by how Nora seemingly flirts with Rank at the beginning of their encounter. She might be getting bored with the relationship that her and Helmer have, and it's clear she likes to rebel and do her own thing, considering the macaroons and the loan. But after looking at another translation, I can bet that Nora indeed did mean that she would rather be with Helmer than Dr. Rank.
I am very sympathetic for Nora in this section of the play. the comment she says to Mrs. Linde "it even used to make him sort of jealous if I only as mentioned any of my old friends back home." (38) I think she is lying when she says this, and only says it because she wants to show off her marriage as much as possible to Mrs. Linde to make the allusion that she is happily married, but in reality she isn't. Another comment I thought to be interesting from Nora was when she said Dr. Rank had Tuberculosis of the spine to Mrs. Linde! Tuberculosis of the spine is not a real condition, but the way it was said and the dialect around her saying it made me believe that she thought it to be true, showing just how naive Nora can be. Another thing i found interesting about Nora's character and that made me feel sympathy for her, is how Torvald treats her. "Nice of you- because you let your husband have his way? All right, you little rogue, i know you didn't mean it that way." (40) when torvald says this he is treating her as if she is a little child which i find to be very condescending. And instead of sticking up for herself, Nora does not acknowledge it. I think Nora may be very Naive and sometimes rude to her peers but she should not be treated the way Torvald treats her. What do you guys think of Nora? Does she deserve to be treated the way she is?
In the first half of Act II, what struck me was Dr. Rank's confession of love to Nora. His admittance of the fact he has developed said feelings for her brings out a part of Nora's personality. Initially, it appears that Nora was going to ask Rank for a favor, presumably one dealing with her situation with Krogstad. She attempts to hook him through flirtation, but Rank misinterprets, and as a result, proceeds to his love confession. Once the doctor informs her of his illness and impending death, Nora hesitates with pursuing the idea of asking something of him. She sees it as too cruel of manipulation and she does not wish to take advantage of the poor fellow. This brings attention to the audience regarding Nora's morality. Also, the light that is introduced in the scene holds significant symbolism. Rank says, "I swore to myself you would know before I went. I'll never have a better opportunity" (II.48) and Nora responds with, "Helene, bring the lamp in, please. Oh, my dear Dr. Rank, that really was rather horrid of you" (II.49). The tone that is created here is of unease. Nora seems uncomfortable with this news, which he had sprung upon her. During Dr. Rank's visit, the house began to increasingly get more dim as time passed, but once his confession was made, light was introduced, which symbolized the revealing of his true emotions that were hidden/concealed beforehand. In other words, light had been shed on the situation and everything was made more clear. How do you think Dr. Rank's love confession has impacted or will impact the plot? Perhaps it is foreshadowing that all secrets will eventually be uncovered because the truth inevitably prevails.
I agree with your interpretation of the symbolism. I didn't notice the increased dimming of the house after Dr. Rank arrives when I was reading the Act, but now that I know it's there, it makes the symbolism even more obvious. And I think Dr. Rank's love confession will really impact the plot because now Nora won't be able to get advice from him so her decisions will be her own. Also, what you said about Nora's morality was interesting. You said that she doesn't want to take advantage of him, but in the scene, Nora asks him for a favor after listening to him tell her about his illness.
In Act II, we found that a lot of characters tended to fall into a specific pattern of behavior. Examples of this is Helmer often ending his conversations with going back into his study and Nora displaying some trait of being a child in the eyes of others. The interesting part is with Rank, he fell into a pattern of being professional and only talking about medical conditions unless prompted to do so otherwise. But in Act II, he breaks out of this shell and begins to flirt with Nora "And what other things am I allowed to see?" (Act II, 47). He speaks and acts intimately with Nora and eventually confesses his love during this act with very little provocation. This is the first instance in the play where a character has the view on their personality drastically changed. With Rank, he changes from a symbol of professionalism to a dying love struck man without regard for others.
This Act is the first instance that I really can empathize with Nora. Nora’s insecurity as a woman and wife becomes extraordinarily evident in her conversations with Dr. Rank and Ms. Linde. Nora claims that the reason Torvald did not of “dearest” friend Kristine Linde was because “he is so terribly in love with [her] that he wants [her] all to himself” and therefore it upsets him to hear of anyone else in her life (Act II, pg. 38). Needless to say, Nora is fabricating the truth. The two’s marriage is not founded on amorous love but rather social obligation, and this seen time and time again in their interactions with each other. Nora wants to believe that she is desired as a woman and loved as wife and so she projects that fantasy on her “dolls”. Later in the act, when talking to Dr. Rank, Nora again tries to prove she is loved. “You know how deeply, how passionately Torvald is in love with me. He would never hesitate for a moment to sacrifice his life for my sake” (Act II, pg. 48). Rather than telling Dr. Rank this, she’s telling herself this. Nora is trying to convince herself she is of worth and this is evident in her slightly inappropriate diction. I feel like the desire to be wanted and the insecurity that you are not is universal and transcends time and era. Even though this story is set Victorian times (where without a doubt the social tendencies differed from now) this tone of desperation is relatable and evident in modern literature.
I love your analysis! You have some really nice critical thinking skills. Anyways, I agree and think that Nora is in denial and doesn't want to accept that her marriage with Torvald is not as vanilla as it seems to be. This is something that is still prevalent in relationships today. A relationship dissolves because things don't go smoothly or people realize that their partner is not who they thought they originally were. It's sad really.
A major turning point I noticed in the play was when Helmer says, "Practically all juvenile delinquents come from homes where the mother is dishonest" (I.33). This is when Nora realized that she could either reveal all and run the risk of ruining everything, or silently suffering underneath everything. Although the revelation is not inherently obvious, the clues are all in the stage cues.
Center stage is meant for major moments of choice or to symbolize moments of strength. Previously, before Helmer's statement, Nora had gone "to the Christmas Tree" (I.32) to prepare for the news that would give her an ultimate choice. The tree was centered on the stage. Upon hearing what Helmer said, Nora "walks over to the other side of the Christmas tree" (I.33). Since Helmer and Nora were previously on the right, this means that she crosses to the left side of the stage. Since stage left is considered the side where the character moves towards open possibility, then Nora is prematurely making her decision to reveal what she did and live her life by her own rules. Although she fights to keep her life the way that it was throughout the play, this single stage direction foreshadows the entire ending.
"Rank. Let me play for her. Helmer: [gets up]. Yes, do. Then I'll be better able to tell her what to do." (II.58-59)
I thought this quote pair was really interesting because it just summarized the relationships between Nora, Torvald, and Dr. Rank, as well as their characters, extremely well. As we've seen in this act, Nora and Dr. Rank have a sort of flirtatious/romantic relationship, to say the least. While she was talking to Dr. Rank, Nora said, "but you can see how it's a bit with Torvald as it was with Daddy...." (II. 50). This implies that the controlling relationship that Nora and Torvald has is reminiscent of the one between her and her father. Interestingly enough, if we go back to Act I, Torvald is chastising Nora about wanting to borrow money, saying that she's "too much like her father." I'm not sure what to make of this parallel yet, but I found it amusing.
Nora also notes, "Well, you see, there are those people you love and those people you'd almost rather be with" (II. 50). There was a discussion in my group about who exactly she was referring to. Personally, I thought that this quote implied she was "in love" romantically with Dr. Rank, but she wanted to be with Torvald because she, having grown up in an environment of being controlled, needed to maintain her own personal "doll's house," which is what Torvald provides. It could also work the other way, with Torvald as someone she loves because he reminded her of her father, and Dr. Rank someone she'd rather spend her time with.
Anyway, moving on. The quote takes place after Torvald is horrified by how fast Nora dances the tarantella dance, and Dr. Rank offers to play the piano in place of Torvald. Personally, I believe that this quote alone shows that Dr. Rank is more suitable for Nora because he is willing to accept the reality of her character, which is also evidenced by their previous interactions (Nora being more physical, less submissive, etc.), whereas Torvald only acts as a pillar of her "doll's house." When Torvald says that he'll "be better able to tell her what to do," it shows that he cannot accept or fulfill the needs of the "real" Nora, because he only knows the side where he's in control. Conversely, Dr. Rank almost seems like a bit of a helpless pushover. The combination of these three characters provide an interesting dynamic--it creates a conflicting tone of love from Dr. Rank which is juxtaposed with Torvald's dominance - -all of which continues to add to the suspense accumulating throughout Act Two.
In act 2 I think a really important section of it is the light/dark imagery. While Nora and Rank are talking Nora says to Helene, "bring the lamp in please." This is a very abstract, random comment at that time, showing the reader that it was put in that section for a reason. Before the lamp is brought in, Nora is oblivious to the feelings Doctor Rank has foe her. As soon as the lamp is brought in, Nora understands his feelings. I find this quite important as it shows the audiences inside the characters brain with out having to use dialogue. I feel as if the authors would have shown the theme of being enlightened through dialogue, that would have changed the characterization of Nora. I think the light/dark imagery shows the reader a theme of enlightment without having to worry about changing the way the reader thinks about the characters.
In Act Two Dr. Rank comes to the house and talks to Nora and announces the fact that he will soon be dying from his "TB in the spine. The way he announces it is very overly dramatic though. E informs Nora that he will mail them a card with a black cross on it to tell them he's almost dead. This section gave us a lot of information on the relationship between Nora and Dr. Rank as well as Dr. Rank's character. Have find out he is in love with Nora and Nora seems to flirt with him also. Dr. Rank is most likely the root of the loan also. Nora seems to flirt with Dr. Rank because of the distance between her and Torvald. She also knows how passionate he is and seems to admire him for that, yet she would never actually go for him like he would wish. Dr. Rank does not seem to care what anyone thinks and he sees to be the person that needs all the attention and wants people to feel sorry for him. This is why he tells Nora of his love than of death to create a dramatic effect. The character, Dr. Rank, is very important to the story because of how different he is. Ibsen put him in here to make is prominent that there is no "perfect" society or relationships in this time period and there will always be a person like Dr. Rank. Another thing I noticed with Dr. Rank's character is that his lines are very drawn out and poetic, Ibsen writes them like this because of the effect it gives the audience. It makes the audience or reader feel more empathy towards him or completely be annoyed by him.
"Don't you feel ashamed of yourself, now the lamp's been brought in?" (II. 49).
This quote was really interesting because it shows that, during this era, many people kept their secrets well concealed and never let them be revealed. It also shows how peoples' private lives and their public lives could be very different. Some things that were said and done in one's private life could be improper in public and go against the rules of society. This quote is important to the play because it exposes one of the main character, Dr. Rank's, big secrets. When Nora says this, the stage directions say she's smiling, which shows how she treats this as a game and is amused by it, while Dr. Rank's response, "No, not exactly." shows that he really is in love with her. In the quote, there is symbolism in the lamp. The darkness before the lamp represents a safe, hidden place where secrets can be told. The light brought by the lamp symbolizes society and the strict rules of it.
I agree with your interpretation of the light and dark imagery. The dark represents the Dr. Rank's secrets but also the sin of Dr. Rank and Nora's secret relationship. In the strict Victorian era, affairs were surely not spoken about, but in the dark, it's safe to talk about unacceptable things. The light implies the return to the reality of strict society norms and is a signal to keep secrets hidden again. Nora's response to Rank's confession of love reflects how Nora acts in society. She follows all the acceptable norms of society and keeps things that are the slightest bit shameful to herself.
In our third day of reading, my group found more evidence that Nora is trying to get Helmer to consider her as an equal, yet Helmer still thinks of her as a lesser individual. After Nora said that it was nice of her to let Helmer have his way, he replied saying, “Nice of you- because you let your husband have his way? Alright you little rogue, I know you didn’t mean it that way”(II, 40). Nora tried to slip in a little bit of recognition for herself to bring the two of them closer to equal grounds in the relationship but Helmer did not allow it. He says that her idea is deviant of that of society and that a wife should always be obedient to her husband. By calling her a “rogue,” the reader thinks of Nora as someone who has broken the law and a thief. This is ironic because she has already confessed that she has stolen the name and power of her father by forging his name. Helmer also secretly manipulates Nora’s personality by telling her that she didn’t mean to suggest their equality and that she really only meant it as a joke. Like calling her pet names, this makes Nora believe that she, herself, is not equal to Helmer and she eventually dehumanizes herself by using Helmer’s pet names and referring to herself as it.
Travis, I'm a bit confused as to what you meant by "equality." I personally thought that Nora was being even more submissive because she was trying to overcompensate for her crime by exaggerating her "good" or "clever" actions. Torvald thought that she was trying to ask for a favor - money - but this time it was different. Could you clarify what you meant, Travis?
At the beginning of act 2, Nora says, "Yes, Anne Marie, from now on I can't be with them as often as I was before." (Act 2, 36). She says this due to the fact that in the end of act 1, Torvald says, "My dear Nora, as a lawyer I know what I'm talking about. Practically all juvenile delinquents come from homes where the mother is dishonest." (Act 1, 33), which can prove that she loves her children and is an act of her really trying to save her family. After that Nora has a very interesting diction that foreshadows, "... Do you think they would forget their Mummy if she went away for good?" (Act 2, 36). The diction involved in this line has a very sad tone to it, that foreshadows what will happen later in the play. She says, "... Do you think they would forget their Mummy..." foreshadowing that she will not be home with her kids because she will be somewhere else, in this case, jail.
In the first half of Act II, something I found especially interesting was Ibsen's frequent use of irony to foreshadow Nora's final decision. For example, Torvald's use of "skylark" and "squirrel" as terms of endearment suggests both a sense of smallness and a sense of unpredictability and even escape. The fact that Torvald compares his supposedly naive young wife to a small bird is probably intended as a gesture of protective dominance, but it may instead remind Nora that she has been trapped or "caged" by the life she leads. The irony in Torvald's condescension is further developed by his insistence that "You'll find I'm man enough to take everything on myself"; instead of showing Nora his strength of will, this statement helps to confirm Nora's growing suspicion that her role in his life has little meaning (II, 44). In addition, Nora's conversation with the children's nursemaid in the opening scene of Act II suggests that Nora will ultimately leave her children in the future. The nursemaid's remark that "children get used to anything in time" is also significant in that nearly all of the other characters refer to Nora as childish in at least one instance; for Nora, the prospect of "getting used to" the unbalanced tension of her relationship with her husband has gradually become unreasonable. Overall, the use of foreshadowing in Act II helps to create a darker, more intense tone, providing the reader with increasingly powerful hints of the emotional instability inherent in the ties that bind the Helmer household.
An interesting quote I found is, in act one after Krogstad leaves, Helmer and Nora talks. Helmet says,"Helmer:Practically all juvenile delinquents come from homes where the mother is dishonest....but of course fathers can have the same influence...Krogstad been poisoning his own children for years with lies and deceit. That's the reason I call him morally depraved"( Act I pg 33). I find this ironic. He talks about how Krogstad has moral deficiencies and lies. When his wife is lying to him. But more importantly I find it interesting how he thinks moral nature is inherited. But I find it interesting how Helmer treats Dr. Rank as an equal, because he has a disease.Helmer seems to be oblivious to the fact and I find it interesting how Dr. Rank wants to stay away from Helmer because he "loathes anything that's ugly". And also how Rank asks,"why should I suffer for another man's sins?" (II. 45). Which suggests that he thinks his father is the reason he has the disease so it seems like disease and moral nature is an inheritance in this play.
ReplyDeleteDo you think this shows what Trovald thinks of himself. Trovald is definitely not the most pure man who seems to also ignore his children and his wife. Yet he goes off and talks about Krogstad and his moral poisoning. So this must mean Trovald thinks of himself much better than everyone in his surroundings although it is very hypocritical in some sense,
DeleteI believe that all this talk of unmoral households is what spurred Nora to leave her children. To the external eye, it may appear that Nora acts selfishly, looking out for herself above the children. However, Nora believed that her consequential actions would harm the children and doom them to a dreadful life. Nora really did think what she did was best for Nora's children. By leaving them, Nora believed that she was giving them a chance to grow up right.
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ReplyDeleteNow that my group has gotten through half the book together with three different translations we have noticed that the version of a book can change the entire diction of a simple sentence. In one version the book calls Noras dress for the ball/dance a costume, however in Alli and I’s translation it calls the outfit just a dress. This is a clear opposition. We all know that deception is frequent in this book so the word “Costume” can be another symbol for hiding true identity. However if we take the regular translation we can’t gather that symbol and changes that whole section. Also when Helmer calls Nora “Little Miss Obstinate” (Act II, pg. 36) we feel the negative connotation however in Mi’s book he calls her “Little Miss Stubborn”(Act II, pg. 36) our group felt that both words can be demeaning however they affect the tone so differently. One creates tension (Obstinate) and another just makes you feel like he might think her actions are headstrong (Stubborn). So it’s clear that a simple change of one word can really make us change our opinions on what is happening in the book. One last example is how Nora tells helmer that he is acting “Narrow-minded” but again in Mi’s book it calls him petty and we know from reading it that the word is repeated many times. So why would a more modern translation change the word? Because depending on how you look at Nora’s actions and how Helmer reacts he can be acting Petty and Childish. However my group also saw that his actions made him narrow minded. So good job to the translators...except for the part where the difference between “Narrow-minded actions” and “Petty Behavior” on the tone is massive. Narrow-Minded leaves room for improvement where as petty leaves only room for more accusation. To conclude my group has learned that the translation matters when reflecting on Language, diction, syntax, and Imagery.
Great! Thanks for posting this--if other people have different translations (or speak fluent Norwegian and have any insights) let us know!
DeleteMs. Ballard
The Christmas tree seen in Acts I and II of Doll's House is a clear symbol of the changes in Nora's life. Near the end of Act I, Nora says, "There's nothing to worry about. We'll have a lovely Christmas tree." (Act I. 30). Just like the Christmas tree, Nora believes that if she looks pretty and plays the part of a perfect wife, her worries will disapear. However, Nora's lovely life is but an external disguise, similar to the ornaments she is decorating the tree with. They look lovely, but the core of the stem remains unchanged. At the beginning of Act II, the tree is described as being, "stripped, bedraggled, and with the candles burnt out."(Act II. 35). The tree's state is akin to Nora's current emotional condition. Just as the tree's beautiful exterior has fallen away, Nora's mask of lies and deceit is crumbling. However bedraggled the tree appears, the transition is actually necessary to improve. A Christmas tree must shed its decorations and be tossed on the curb before it can be recycled into something better. Although many changes appear bad at the time, life often gets worse before it gets better. Just like the tree, Nora is bound to be transformed into something bigger and better after she lets go of the external beauty of her current life.
ReplyDeleteI found it really interesting how Mrs Linde was introduced into the story. She first shows up and Nora hardly recognizes her. Yet within a matter of minutes Nora is revealing all her secrets to her. This tells use that Nora is not good a keeping secrets and feels the need to tell them to someone. Could this be her fatal character flaw? It also shows how Nora is the type of person who is proud of her clever deception that she has pulled of thus far in the play. Mrs. Linde who was originally just an old friend is now so deeply involved in Nora's life to the extent that she cannot really escape or back out. I found it interesting how Nora almost immediately trusts Mrs. Linde without hesitation. Do you think Mrs Linde is actually who she says she is or does she have some underlying secrets of her own. Do you think she will keep Nora's secrets?
ReplyDeleteThis is so weird to think about because I want myself to think that Mrs. Linde is not going to say anything but at the same time I feel like she is going to somehow revel all of the secrets. Whether it is through someone else or herself just telling them to a group of people. The sneakiness is going to rub off on Mrs. Linde and I think that Nora has not had someone to revel anything too in a long time and Mrs. Linde came into her life again at the right time and Nora instantly trusted her because she needed some one to "vent" to.
DeleteI think that Nora needs someone to tell her secrets to. I feel like Torvald and Nora's relationship isn't strong enough to handle secrets, so Nora needs another way out. It is very interesting, however, to think about Mrs. Linde's secrets, I never thought about her having her own!
DeleteThis is an interesting point to bring up. Nora must be so constricted to live the life that accommodate to Torvalds so I think she has to rant to whoever. Since she has to keep so many secrets within her own family and her husband and she had to keep that to herself it would be very hard to not tell all to a friend that comes. That is why she enjoys Dr. Rank's visits so much because she can be a little flirty with him and live a little out of the shell.
DeleteI found it very interesting how in Act 2, Torvald acts very caring and loving towards Nora. On page 36 he says, "But I forgive you nevertheless, because it is such eloquent witness to your great love for me. And that is as it should be, my own darling Nora. Come what will, may be sure I shall have both courage and strength if they be needed. You will see I am man enough to take everything upon myself." This quote shows Torvald's love towards his wife. He is also very forgiving of Nora when she tells him to not send out Krogstad's dismissal letter. He does not get angry with her or yell at her. He shows her compassion and patience especially when she keeps nagging him. I think that he would also potentially be forgiving of her if she were to ever tell him about borrowing money. Because Torvald loves his wife, I think that he would be angry at first with her decision but then he would forgiving and help her pay off the loan. It almost seems like Nora is overreacting and blowing up the whole situation. I think that it is unnecessary for her to want to run away or even potentially kill herself.
ReplyDeleteDo you REALLY think he loves her? Or does he love the idea of having a perfect doll wife? I mean, I have to question the motives behind someone saying "I'm man enough." Seriosuly.
DeleteMs. Ballard
Alisa! When I first read the book, I thought that Helmer really loves and accepts Nora for who she really is. Based on what Ms. Ballard asked, I don't think Helmer loves Nora for who she really is. Helmer is a very self-absorbed man who's is greatly concerned with work manners rather than his own family. It is evident that he doesn't have much control over his work as he is constantly stressed out, but what he has control over is his own wife. He has a deep desire to have the perfect Victorian-era wife who is obedient and submissive; a woman he can control and criticize. He does care about her well-being as she is his wife, but his definition of 'love' is different than the definition in today's society.
DeleteIn Act II, Nora has another encounter with Dr. Rank. This time it was a more intimate and personal conversation with the last. Dr Rank goes too far and upsets Nora however puts on this fake smile. The stage directions describing this are, “She sits down on the rocking chair and smiles” (II.49). The rocking chair symbolizes a more superior position than the other chairs. Nora takes it instead of offering it to Doctor Rank, the guest. This shows how Nora sees less of him now that he has over spoke. Nora, although upset, does these things with a smile. Because women in this time period were supposed to put on a perfect and cheery look, Nora puts on this facade that the readers can identify which adds to all of Nora’s deceptions
ReplyDeleteDo you think Nora sitting down could signal that she is more comfortable with Dr. Rank than others? And the fact that she sits in a rocking chair indicates she clearly doesn't want him to sit with her, so is that a signal of her defiance toward him?
DeleteI think Carla is right in saying that Nora is sitting down because she is more comfortable with Dr. Rank. In the second act, Nora's conversation with Dr. Rank shows a stronger relationship between them than the one between Helmer and Nora. Nora has also never been seat with Helmer in the room which also increases the likelihood that she sat because she felt comfortable around Dr. Rank.
DeleteIn Act II, the reader is able to gain a closer perspective of the multiple relationships evolving, especially the one between Nora and Helmer. Ever since the first page of the book, Nora was portrayed as a 'sheltered' wife who couldn't do much on her own as she was desperately depended on her husband. Such perspective starts to slowly change as the reader sees her actions and understands her motives as the play evolves. Especially in Act II, Nora intentionally belittles herself in front of Helmer to get what she wants. She shamelessly states: "If a little squirrel were to ask so nicely...and the pretty little sky-lark would sing all day long.."(41). Throughout this passage, Nora is trying to convince Helmer to allow Krogstad to keep his job at the bank and she certainly knows how to convince him to do it. She is purposely calling herself a 'squirrel' and 'little sky-lark' in order to get what she wants. She is aware that Helmer loves to be dominant, and by giving into his pleasure, she is trying to upkeep her own interests. If Krogstad was fired from the bank, her whole life would be destroyed as her darkest secrets would be revealed. The sudden change of tone allows the reader to understand that Nora isn't as childish and dumb as she was made to be in the beginning of the novel. She is rather manipulative towards her husband because she knows he will satisfy her wishes if she was seen as a 'damsel in distress' who desperately needs Helmer's help to get out of a situation. Nora is willing to play desperate in order to achieve what she wants, which is really intelligent and obnoxious at the same time. Helmer wouldn't want to see her wife upset, therefore she tells him that if she gets her way, she would be 'singing all day long' like a sky-lark.
ReplyDeleteWhile reading through this play, I have found that irony is one of the main literary devices used to describe Nora and her sneakiness. Nora often contradicts herself and could be categorized as a compulsive liar. In Act II the conversation between Mrs. Linde and Nora becomes very strange when Mrs. Linde says that Torvald had no idea who she even was when she first arrived. This is when Nora says, “Torvald is so terribly in love with me that he says he wants me all to himself. When we were first married, it even used to make him sort of jealous if I only as much mentioned any of my old friends from back home” (38). I found this to be very interesting due to the fact that Nora claims Torvald would be jealous of Nora having friends that are women like Mrs. Linde. This didn’t add up for me because of the simple fact that Torvald should only be jealous of other men who are possibly attempting to have Nora as a mate of their own. This again goes along with the idea that Nora lies just to get out of uncomfortable situations where she knows she is in trouble.
ReplyDeleteI also agree with you that Nora tends to lie her way out of things. I think she said to Mrs. Linde that Torvald would be jealous to show off and brag about how much her husband really loves her, but in reality she doesn't nearly gets as much affection and love from him, and so therefore she compensates by lying. I also think Nora feels under appreciated which leads to her sneakiness and desire for independence and power.
DeleteAct two really put preposterous image on Nora. My group and I came to the conclusion that we think Dr. Rank and Nora’s relationship is a desire for one another. Dr. Rank has a secret love for her and although, his actions do not really have a direct effect on the play he brings an affect to other characters in the play. In my opinion, I think that he creates Nora’s nervousness to increase and makes her become even more rebellious. I feel like there is emerging doubt of feelings towards Torvald from Nora. Some of the things that Dr. Ranks says to Nora make the reader feel like there is going to be something between of the two of them because it should be said to Torvald. On page 48 the conversation between Nora and Dr. Rank is about trust and how strong their friendship is. Rank says, “Who wouldn’t gladly give his life for your sake.” And that makes me feel like he would drop anything for her whether it creates a bigger problem for other people or adds to the sneakiness. Nora also says that the relationship between her husband, Torvald, and herself was a lot similar to her fathers. She loved her father so much in a fatherly way that I think that she secretly loves Dr. Rank in a romantic way. This is such a broad statement that it could go in many different directions, what do you guys think? Ibsen put Dr. Rank in the play not only to create dynamic, but to help bring attention to other characters.
ReplyDeleteI also thought it was interesting how when when Dr. Rank shows up, Nora says something like "Oh I always have time for you" and this seems flirty. But then when Dr. Rank admits that he loves Nora, she gets all bent out of shape and upset. I found that really confusing, it's as if she likes the thought of loving him, but when he says it, it becomes real and she doesn't like that.
DeleteThroughout “A Doll’s House”, I noticed that in most cases, Nora and Torvald’s conversations end when “he goes into his study and shuts the door behind him” (act 1 pg.33) and “goes with his papers into his room, and shuts the door behind him” (act 2 pg.44). Just as actions speak louder than words, the use of stage directions contributes to Torvald’s character development. The stage direction repeatedly mentions how he always goes into his room when he’s done talking to Nora. This indicates that Torvald doesn’t have much to do with the household since he thinks that he’s too masculine to handle and care the household. Because fathers during that period aren’t very close to their children, Ibsen wants to display Torvald as the typical middle-class Victorian guy who works all day long and spend more time at home on his paper work rather than spending his time with his wife and children, which is too “feminine” for a person who cares for his self image like him to do. Even though Torvald’s actions are so insignificant and easily overlooked, it shows that he is self-absorbed and cares for his appearance and how people think of him. This makes the reader feel that Torvald isn’t such a significant character because all he does is go to work and go home and spend all his time in his room. His only role for the book is being the typical man during the Victorian age.
ReplyDeleteAs we read Act II, many interesting secrets are revealed. Looking back at Act I, there wasn’t very many notable events worth mentioning, mainly because Act I introduces the characters and allows readers to make an opinion (first impression) about each them. Act II is where all the excitement and action starts. As we discovered in Act I, Nora is a big liar. In Act II, we find out that Nora and Dr. Rank have a love affair, which struck me by surprise because it wasn’t acceptable to have a love affair, especially during the Victorian era where the culture was a very strict Puritan lifestyle. Near the beginning of Act II, we see that Nora and Dr. Rank have a secretive conversation while Helmer is in his study, especially after Helmer told Nora to tell Dr. Rank to go to his study when he arrives, which is evidence that Nora and Dr. Rank are more than just normal friends. In their conversation, Rank mentions that his “tuberculosis of the spine” is worsening and death will soon catch up to him. Nora responds very angrily because 1) she doesn’t want Dr. Rank to die because she loves him, and 2) she doesn’t want Dr. Rank to be in a bad mood also because she loves him. Amidst this moment of sorrow, Dr. Rank brings up his dad. He says, “My poor spine is innocent, but my father was a soldier and he enjoyed his life, so I must suffer... Especially the unhappy spine that’s had no pleasure from them at all.” (55-56). From this, we see that Dr. Rank is talking about sexual abuse. “My poor spine is innocent” suggests that Dr. Rank was not the one at fault for getting tuberculosis of the spine (aka syphilis); he was the victim. “No pleasure” indicates that he was forced and didn’t have a choice, which shows the abuse that he faced. Dr. Rank states that his father was a soldier, which has an underlying meaning. A soldier is perceived as a very strong and mighty individual who will fight for the freedom of his/her country. I believe that Ibsen is saying that Dr. Rank’s father is someone who will fight for whatever he wants to achieve and will manipulate others to get what he wants, in this case, sexual abuse. Even though this part of Nora and Dr. Rank’s conversation is very sad and disturbing, the two take this subject very lightly, like it’s no big deal. Nora and Dr. Rank even smile right after they talk about this subject. I found it odd that they would just glance over this important subject. Overall, I thought that Act II was very interesting to read because many unexpected secrets were spilled out, and I’m looking forward to the progression of Nora throughout the rest of the play.
ReplyDeleteI also looked at this quote in my paragraph. The point you brought up about his father being a soldier is really interesting--I didn't think to look up what "subaltern" meant. It's interesting how Dr. Rank doesn't possess the same qualities his father had; in fact, he appears to have the opposite qualities. I agree that it's strange how the subject of Rank's abuse is glanced over in this play. Most works of literature, when they feature abused characters, make that abuse central to that character. For Rank, it seems to be a peripheral quality at best. Do you think this minimization of Rank's abuse is significant in this play?
DeleteNurse: oh well, young children easily get accustomed to anything.
ReplyDeleteNora: Do you think so? Do you think they would forget their mother if she went away altogether?
(Act II. Pg. 52)
First of all, spoiler warning to anyone who hasn't read "A Doll's House" or doesn't know how it ends.
I find this quote very interesting because it evidently foreshadows Nora's future abandonment of her family. There have been other instances that allude to her leaving, but none quite so explicit as this one. At this point, Nora is seriously considering leaving her family and it has gone beyond just thinking about it. This use of foreshadowing is very important to the play for multiple reasons. One, it brings the build up closer until the big reveal. Second , it demonstrates tremendous character development on Nora's part. In Act 1, Nora is often undermined and considered a child. She wants to stay at home and play with the children; she is essentially a doll. In Act 2 however, Nora has done some considerable thinking about her dilemma and considers leaving. Now this can be interpreted multiple ways. It can be interpreted as character growth for Nora in that she decidedly rejects the societal role of women and decides to live her own life independent of others. By leaving her family, Nora is no longer a child, or doll, and has grown to become a strong individual capable of her own thoughts and decisions. On the other hand, it can also be considered extremely selfish and inconsiderate on her part for leaving her husband and children to live on their own. A mother leaving her own child is rare and often looked down upon. Even though Nora doesn't want to leave her children, it is still interpreted as neglectful. Again, however, Nora's abandonment coneys a strong message of rejection of the common social norms held during the Victorian era about mothers' roles. In either perspective, it is observable that Nora changes dramatically throughout the course of "A Doll's House" and foreshadowing is a highly effective method of demonstrating these changes.
Just when I thought that this play was going to be really boring, it turned out to be a little bit more exciting than that in Act II. The play introduced several new wrinkles into the fabric of its plot in Act II, the most shocking of which was the revelation by Dr. Rank that he was sexually abused by his father. However, this revelation’s greatest impact was its continuation of Nora’s childish characterization. Rank tells Nora, “My poor innocent spine must do penance for my father’s gay subaltern life” (II, 46). This is his rather euphemistic way of telling Nora that he contracted syphilis from his father, who himself contracted it due to his lascivious lifestyle. It creates a fairly sad tone for the conversation, with Rank telling Nora that he did not choose to die of syphilis and did not contract it due to his moral failings, rather, it was forced onto him by his perverted father. However, Nora seems to treat this statement as something humorous, first asking Rank about his father’s culinary preferences, then adding, “It does seem a pity all these delicious things should attack the spine” (II, 46). The “spine” being referred to by both characters is not an actual spine, but is a metaphor for moral fortitude (and a fairly common metaphor at that, as people without conviction are often called “spineless” in modern society). Nora’s reaction to Rank talking about his sexual abuse strengthens her childish characterization because she behaves in a childish manner—she ignores the serious issue at hand to talk about food, and then wishes that her constitution could be unaffected by giving in to temptation, effectively wanting to have her cake and eat it too. The contradiction of Nora’s upbeat and humorous attitude with the sad tone created by Rank’s statement only further enhances the childish characterization of Nora. This was only a couple lines of the play, but this passage made a significant impact in that it cemented Nora’s childish characterization in this play.
ReplyDeleteI think Nora's comment about Torvald's jealousy is pretty interesting. She says "It even used to make him sort of jealous if I only as much as mentioned any of my old friends from back home. So of course I stopped doing it." (38) This lends itself to the idea that Nora and Torvald weren't really members of society until they were married. I think their marriage is such a large part of both their identities that both Nora as much as Torvald are willing to put on a content face in order to maintain their relationship. Even though neither seem to truly love each other, they love the idea of a perfect household. Nora's real feelings are held for Dr. Rank. Even though she may not be in love with him, Nora is noticeably closer with Dr. Rank than with her husband. In the same sentence as where she mentions Torvald's jealousy, Nora says "But I often talk to Dr. Rank about such things. He likes hearing about them." (38) Dr. Rank probably does not really enjoy Nora's stories, but rather enjoys Nora herself which is why he is willing to sit and listen to her. Nora goes as far as to say "being with Torvald is a little like being with papa". If Torvald is more like a father-figure to Nora, we see that their relationship is clearly an empty one, as marriages don't usually have a father-figure. Nora's attitude is at times childish, and she treats her children more like her equals, so I wonder if Nora's progression into adulthood is more of a fulfillment of an expectation than a true transformation. When her conversation with Dr. Rank takes a more depressing tone, Nora teases him by hitting him with her stockings. This is a childish act and shows her lack of maturity. Overall I think Nora uses her marriage with Torvald as a way to establish herself as a real adult, and a true member of society, even though she is not there emotionally.
ReplyDeleteI agree with your analysis. It's very interesting now that someone has explicitly stated it--I hadn't given this aspect of the play much thought, but now it seems almost impossible to overlook. What do you think of Dr. Rank's confession of his love to Nora? Clearly they had shared a special sort of connection up until this point, so then why did Nora suddenly push away once everything was out in the open? Did Dr. Rank think anything would happen as a result of him admitting his true feelings?
DeleteNora - "Well, you see, there are those people you love and those people you'd rather be with"(50)
ReplyDeleteThis quote was what Nora said to Dr. Rank after he said that he thought Nora might be with him. I interpreted this as she loves Helmer, and she would rather just be friends with Rank. The use of italics on the word "be" gives that impression. Without it, one could think she means be with, like be in a relationship with. Another interpretation somebody could have had, is that Nora actually does love Rank, but she would rather be married and live with Helmer. This could be backed up by the fact that Nora likes the attention and love that Helmer gives her. The reader also may have gotten thisidea by how Nora seemingly flirts with Rank at the beginning of their encounter. She might be getting bored with the relationship that her and Helmer have, and it's clear she likes to rebel and do her own thing, considering the macaroons and the loan. But after looking at another translation, I can bet that Nora indeed did mean that she would rather be with Helmer than Dr. Rank.
I am very sympathetic for Nora in this section of the play. the comment she says to Mrs. Linde "it even used to make him sort of jealous if I only as mentioned any of my old friends back home." (38) I think she is lying when she says this, and only says it because she wants to show off her marriage as much as possible to Mrs. Linde to make the allusion that she is happily married, but in reality she isn't. Another comment I thought to be interesting from Nora was when she said Dr. Rank had Tuberculosis of the spine to Mrs. Linde! Tuberculosis of the spine is not a real condition, but the way it was said and the dialect around her saying it made me believe that she thought it to be true, showing just how naive Nora can be. Another thing i found interesting about Nora's character and that made me feel sympathy for her, is how Torvald treats her. "Nice of you- because you let your husband have his way? All right, you little rogue, i know you didn't mean it that way." (40) when torvald says this he is treating her as if she is a little child which i find to be very condescending. And instead of sticking up for herself, Nora does not acknowledge it. I think Nora may be very Naive and sometimes rude to her peers but she should not be treated the way Torvald treats her. What do you guys think of Nora? Does she deserve to be treated the way she is?
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ReplyDeleteIn the first half of Act II, what struck me was Dr. Rank's confession of love to Nora. His admittance of the fact he has developed said feelings for her brings out a part of Nora's personality. Initially, it appears that Nora was going to ask Rank for a favor, presumably one dealing with her situation with Krogstad. She attempts to hook him through flirtation, but Rank misinterprets, and as a result, proceeds to his love confession. Once the doctor informs her of his illness and impending death, Nora hesitates with pursuing the idea of asking something of him. She sees it as too cruel of manipulation and she does not wish to take advantage of the poor fellow. This brings attention to the audience regarding Nora's morality. Also, the light that is introduced in the scene holds significant symbolism. Rank says, "I swore to myself you would know before I went. I'll never have a better opportunity" (II.48) and Nora responds with, "Helene, bring the lamp in, please. Oh, my dear Dr. Rank, that really was rather horrid of you" (II.49). The tone that is created here is of unease. Nora seems uncomfortable with this news, which he had sprung upon her. During Dr. Rank's visit, the house began to increasingly get more dim as time passed, but once his confession was made, light was introduced, which symbolized the revealing of his true emotions that were hidden/concealed beforehand. In other words, light had been shed on the situation and everything was made more clear. How do you think Dr. Rank's love confession has impacted or will impact the plot? Perhaps it is foreshadowing that all secrets will eventually be uncovered because the truth inevitably prevails.
ReplyDeleteI agree with your interpretation of the symbolism. I didn't notice the increased dimming of the house after Dr. Rank arrives when I was reading the Act, but now that I know it's there, it makes the symbolism even more obvious. And I think Dr. Rank's love confession will really impact the plot because now Nora won't be able to get advice from him so her decisions will be her own. Also, what you said about Nora's morality was interesting. You said that she doesn't want to take advantage of him, but in the scene, Nora asks him for a favor after listening to him tell her about his illness.
DeleteIn Act II, we found that a lot of characters tended to fall into a specific pattern of behavior. Examples of this is Helmer often ending his conversations with going back into his study and Nora displaying some trait of being a child in the eyes of others. The interesting part is with Rank, he fell into a pattern of being professional and only talking about medical conditions unless prompted to do so otherwise. But in Act II, he breaks out of this shell and begins to flirt with Nora "And what other things am I allowed to see?" (Act II, 47). He speaks and acts intimately with Nora and eventually confesses his love during this act with very little provocation. This is the first instance in the play where a character has the view on their personality drastically changed. With Rank, he changes from a symbol of professionalism to a dying love struck man without regard for others.
ReplyDeleteThis Act is the first instance that I really can empathize with Nora. Nora’s insecurity as a woman and wife becomes extraordinarily evident in her conversations with Dr. Rank and Ms. Linde. Nora claims that the reason Torvald did not of “dearest” friend Kristine Linde was because “he is so terribly in love with [her] that he wants [her] all to himself” and therefore it upsets him to hear of anyone else in her life (Act II, pg. 38). Needless to say, Nora is fabricating the truth. The two’s marriage is not founded on amorous love but rather social obligation, and this seen time and time again in their interactions with each other. Nora wants to believe that she is desired as a woman and loved as wife and so she projects that fantasy on her “dolls”. Later in the act, when talking to Dr. Rank, Nora again tries to prove she is loved. “You know how deeply, how passionately Torvald is in love with me. He would never hesitate for a moment to sacrifice his life for my sake” (Act II, pg. 48). Rather than telling Dr. Rank this, she’s telling herself this. Nora is trying to convince herself she is of worth and this is evident in her slightly inappropriate diction. I feel like the desire to be wanted and the insecurity that you are not is universal and transcends time and era. Even though this story is set Victorian times (where without a doubt the social tendencies differed from now) this tone of desperation is relatable and evident in modern literature.
ReplyDeleteI love your analysis! You have some really nice critical thinking skills. Anyways, I agree and think that Nora is in denial and doesn't want to accept that her marriage with Torvald is not as vanilla as it seems to be. This is something that is still prevalent in relationships today. A relationship dissolves because things don't go smoothly or people realize that their partner is not who they thought they originally were. It's sad really.
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ReplyDeleteA major turning point I noticed in the play was when Helmer says, "Practically all juvenile delinquents come from homes where the mother is dishonest" (I.33). This is when Nora realized that she could either reveal all and run the risk of ruining everything, or silently suffering underneath everything. Although the revelation is not inherently obvious, the clues are all in the stage cues.
ReplyDeleteCenter stage is meant for major moments of choice or to symbolize moments of strength. Previously, before Helmer's statement, Nora had gone "to the Christmas Tree" (I.32) to prepare for the news that would give her an ultimate choice. The tree was centered on the stage. Upon hearing what Helmer said, Nora "walks over to the other side of the Christmas tree" (I.33). Since Helmer and Nora were previously on the right, this means that she crosses to the left side of the stage. Since stage left is considered the side where the character moves towards open possibility, then Nora is prematurely making her decision to reveal what she did and live her life by her own rules. Although she fights to keep her life the way that it was throughout the play, this single stage direction foreshadows the entire ending.
"Rank. Let me play for her.
ReplyDeleteHelmer: [gets up]. Yes, do. Then I'll be better able to tell her what to do." (II.58-59)
I thought this quote pair was really interesting because it just summarized the relationships between Nora, Torvald, and Dr. Rank, as well as their characters, extremely well. As we've seen in this act, Nora and Dr. Rank have a sort of flirtatious/romantic relationship, to say the least. While she was talking to Dr. Rank, Nora said, "but you can see how it's a bit with Torvald as it was with Daddy...." (II. 50). This implies that the controlling relationship that Nora and Torvald has is reminiscent of the one between her and her father. Interestingly enough, if we go back to Act I, Torvald is chastising Nora about wanting to borrow money, saying that she's "too much like her father." I'm not sure what to make of this parallel yet, but I found it amusing.
Nora also notes, "Well, you see, there are those people you love and those people you'd almost rather be with" (II. 50). There was a discussion in my group about who exactly she was referring to. Personally, I thought that this quote implied she was "in love" romantically with Dr. Rank, but she wanted to be with Torvald because she, having grown up in an environment of being controlled, needed to maintain her own personal "doll's house," which is what Torvald provides. It could also work the other way, with Torvald as someone she loves because he reminded her of her father, and Dr. Rank someone she'd rather spend her time with.
Anyway, moving on. The quote takes place after Torvald is horrified by how fast Nora dances the tarantella dance, and Dr. Rank offers to play the piano in place of Torvald. Personally, I believe that this quote alone shows that Dr. Rank is more suitable for Nora because he is willing to accept the reality of her character, which is also evidenced by their previous interactions (Nora being more physical, less submissive, etc.), whereas Torvald only acts as a pillar of her "doll's house." When Torvald says that he'll "be better able to tell her what to do," it shows that he cannot accept or fulfill the needs of the "real" Nora, because he only knows the side where he's in control. Conversely, Dr. Rank almost seems like a bit of a helpless pushover. The combination of these three characters provide an interesting dynamic--it creates a conflicting tone of love from Dr. Rank which is juxtaposed with Torvald's dominance - -all of which continues to add to the suspense accumulating throughout Act Two.
In act 2 I think a really important section of it is the light/dark imagery. While Nora and Rank are talking Nora says to Helene, "bring the lamp in please." This is a very abstract, random comment at that time, showing the reader that it was put in that section for a reason. Before the lamp is brought in, Nora is oblivious to the feelings Doctor Rank has foe her. As soon as the lamp is brought in, Nora understands his feelings. I find this quite important as it shows the audiences inside the characters brain with out having to use dialogue. I feel as if the authors would have shown the theme of being enlightened through dialogue, that would have changed the characterization of Nora. I think the light/dark imagery shows the reader a theme of enlightment without having to worry about changing the way the reader thinks about the characters.
ReplyDeleteIn Act Two Dr. Rank comes to the house and talks to Nora and announces the fact that he will soon be dying from his "TB in the spine. The way he announces it is very overly dramatic though. E informs Nora that he will mail them a card with a black cross on it to tell them he's almost dead. This section gave us a lot of information on the relationship between Nora and Dr. Rank as well as Dr. Rank's character. Have find out he is in love with Nora and Nora seems to flirt with him also. Dr. Rank is most likely the root of the loan also. Nora seems to flirt with Dr. Rank because of the distance between her and Torvald. She also knows how passionate he is and seems to admire him for that, yet she would never actually go for him like he would wish. Dr. Rank does not seem to care what anyone thinks and he sees to be the person that needs all the attention and wants people to feel sorry for him. This is why he tells Nora of his love than of death to create a dramatic effect. The character, Dr. Rank, is very important to the story because of how different he is. Ibsen put him in here to make is prominent that there is no "perfect" society or relationships in this time period and there will always be a person like Dr. Rank. Another thing I noticed with Dr. Rank's character is that his lines are very drawn out and poetic, Ibsen writes them like this because of the effect it gives the audience. It makes the audience or reader feel more empathy towards him or completely be annoyed by him.
ReplyDelete"Don't you feel ashamed of yourself, now the lamp's been brought in?" (II. 49).
ReplyDeleteThis quote was really interesting because it shows that, during this era, many people kept their secrets well concealed and never let them be revealed. It also shows how peoples' private lives and their public lives could be very different. Some things that were said and done in one's private life could be improper in public and go against the rules of society. This quote is important to the play because it exposes one of the main character, Dr. Rank's, big secrets. When Nora says this, the stage directions say she's smiling, which shows how she treats this as a game and is amused by it, while Dr. Rank's response, "No, not exactly." shows that he really is in love with her. In the quote, there is symbolism in the lamp. The darkness before the lamp represents a safe, hidden place where secrets can be told. The light brought by the lamp symbolizes society and the strict rules of it.
I agree with your interpretation of the light and dark imagery. The dark represents the Dr. Rank's secrets but also the sin of Dr. Rank and Nora's secret relationship. In the strict Victorian era, affairs were surely not spoken about, but in the dark, it's safe to talk about unacceptable things. The light implies the return to the reality of strict society norms and is a signal to keep secrets hidden again. Nora's response to Rank's confession of love reflects how Nora acts in society. She follows all the acceptable norms of society and keeps things that are the slightest bit shameful to herself.
DeleteIn our third day of reading, my group found more evidence that Nora is trying to get Helmer to consider her as an equal, yet Helmer still thinks of her as a lesser individual. After Nora said that it was nice of her to let Helmer have his way, he replied saying, “Nice of you- because you let your husband have his way? Alright you little rogue, I know you didn’t mean it that way”(II, 40). Nora tried to slip in a little bit of recognition for herself to bring the two of them closer to equal grounds in the relationship but Helmer did not allow it. He says that her idea is deviant of that of society and that a wife should always be obedient to her husband. By calling her a “rogue,” the reader thinks of Nora as someone who has broken the law and a thief. This is ironic because she has already confessed that she has stolen the name and power of her father by forging his name. Helmer also secretly manipulates Nora’s personality by telling her that she didn’t mean to suggest their equality and that she really only meant it as a joke. Like calling her pet names, this makes Nora believe that she, herself, is not equal to Helmer and she eventually dehumanizes herself by using Helmer’s pet names and referring to herself as it.
ReplyDeleteTravis, I'm a bit confused as to what you meant by "equality." I personally thought that Nora was being even more submissive because she was trying to overcompensate for her crime by exaggerating her "good" or "clever" actions. Torvald thought that she was trying to ask for a favor - money - but this time it was different. Could you clarify what you meant, Travis?
DeleteAt the beginning of act 2, Nora says, "Yes, Anne Marie, from now on I can't be with them as often as I was before." (Act 2, 36). She says this due to the fact that in the end of act 1, Torvald says, "My dear Nora, as a lawyer I know what I'm talking about. Practically all juvenile delinquents come from homes where the mother is dishonest." (Act 1, 33), which can prove that she loves her children and is an act of her really trying to save her family. After that Nora has a very interesting diction that foreshadows, "... Do you think they would forget their Mummy if she went away for good?" (Act 2, 36). The diction involved in this line has a very sad tone to it, that foreshadows what will happen later in the play. She says, "... Do you think they would forget their Mummy..." foreshadowing that she will not be home with her kids because she will be somewhere else, in this case, jail.
ReplyDeleteIn the first half of Act II, something I found especially interesting was Ibsen's frequent use of irony to foreshadow Nora's final decision. For example, Torvald's use of "skylark" and "squirrel" as terms of endearment suggests both a sense of smallness and a sense of unpredictability and even escape. The fact that Torvald compares his supposedly naive young wife to a small bird is probably intended as a gesture of protective dominance, but it may instead remind Nora that she has been trapped or "caged" by the life she leads. The irony in Torvald's condescension is further developed by his insistence that "You'll find I'm man enough to take everything on myself"; instead of showing Nora his strength of will, this statement helps to confirm Nora's growing suspicion that her role in his life has little meaning (II, 44). In addition, Nora's conversation with the children's nursemaid in the opening scene of Act II suggests that Nora will ultimately leave her children in the future. The nursemaid's remark that "children get used to anything in time" is also significant in that nearly all of the other characters refer to Nora as childish in at least one instance; for Nora, the prospect of "getting used to" the unbalanced tension of her relationship with her husband has gradually become unreasonable. Overall, the use of foreshadowing in Act II helps to create a darker, more intense tone, providing the reader with increasingly powerful hints of the emotional instability inherent in the ties that bind the Helmer household.
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