After reading both passages and proceeding to analyze the word choice, I noticed subtle differences making an overarching contrast between the two translations. In the first passage, I feel like the writing is more choppy, and has less of a flow than the second translation. Both passages contain several instances of repetition. The constant repetition through both passages makes me wonder as a reader if this was intentional by the author, or if there was something such as “lack of a better word” in english. Both translations never used different wording, using the same word. These are instances of parallel structure when comparing the two passages, but they are not when comparing the sentences within the same passage. In the first translation, they say “when the wise men talked.” versus in the second passage, saying “The conversation of the sages.” This difference stood out to me the most. These passages each give a different flow with small differences like this word choice. It gave more description than the previous passage. Overall, both passages do not stray from the overall message the author is trying to produce, but with translation, meanings and words are always at a risk for loss. - Jess
Although these passages are merely identical, the translator’s representation of the passages are very different. I personally believe the language used in the second passage is simpler and more powerful than the language used in passage one. The use of passive voice is quite relevant in the first translation of the passage. It’s even in the title of the chapter- “The Son of the Brahmin.” The use of passive voice made the reading more wordy, and the sentences more lengthy than they needed to be. The slight difference in some of the descriptive words used also made the second passage more powerful. For example, Siddhartha’s forehead went from being “surrounded by the glow of the clear-thinking spirit” to being “enveloped in the luster of his clear-thinking mind.” The terminology used in the second passage added a more vivid and powerful description than the terminology in the first passage. The slight difference in word choice makes the second translation more elegant and smooth than the other. Another thing that I found interesting was the fact that in the first passage, the translator used the word “the” instead of the word “his” when describing things that belonged to Siddhartha. I was confused in the first passage because I didn’t know if the things being described were personal to the subject, Siddhartha, or if it was relevant to something else. This makes me wonder what Herman Hesse was actually trying to say, and whether or not it got lost in translation. A similarity between the two passages was that they were both quite wordy. Sentences were long, and the same word was being used multiple times in the same sentence. This took away from the flow and elegance of the passage in general. This also sparks the thought of whether or not Herman Hesse meant for the writing to come across that way, or not.
I also noticed the wordy sentences present in both passages. To me, the presence of those sentences felt almost trance-like with their repetition and anaphora. It definitely creates an uncomfortable feeling of boredom. In fact, the author could be using the constant repetition to exhibit the boredom Siddhartha felt near the beginning of his life. After all, we know that he left precisely because he felt bored of his ordinary life as the son of an important man. You make a good point about how the different word choice in both passages affects how they’re read, too.
Both passages are translated in extremely similar form. Any reader would clearly acquire the same message by reading any of the two passages. Despite the extreme similarity, there are differences within the passages. The most prominent difference in the text is the passive language used in the the first passage. The passage language was prominent from the beginning as the title was phrased on passive language. On line 2, more passive language is expressed as the statement “in the shade of the fig tree where Siddhartha grew up” is mixed into a long compound sentence. The passive language is combined with poetic diction as the translator was attempting to explain the first verses of the book in a poetic fashion. This poetic fashion is mirrored in passage two as well. However, the poetic diction and flow is much smoother and satisfying as there is less passive language. This also explains the reason why passage two is shorter than passage one by several sentences. The lack of passive language allows for a more poetic paragraph in passage two overall. This difference in clarity and flow is supported by the differences in sentence structure. Passage one describes the mango groove as: “In the mango grove, shade poured into his black eyes”. In passage two, the text is more clear and has a better flow; “”Shade flowed into his black eyes in the mango grove”. These kinds of differences in text are the most prominent and divide the two passages in terms of passive language and the overall flow. It's hard to miss the long and comma filled sentences that infested both passages. The translators used compound sentences to once again provide increased poetic flow to the text. Overall, both passages attract the reader with vivid word choice and poetic flow, and add a great start to a amazing novel.
One of the most intriguing differences that I came across while reading both passages, was the uses of Brahman and Brahmin. While both are similar in pronunciation and spelling, they both portray different ideas and people, but unlike passage 2, passage 1 gives a stronger and more in depth meaning with its phrasing of words. Brahman refers to the idea of God that is applicable to all objects which have the quality of greatness and truth, hinting that the first paragraph is referring to Siddhartha as the Son of God. Brahmin, on the other hand, defines someone of the priest caste, being the highest in the Hindu society. Siddhartha, having a Brahmin as a father, he is expected to become a religious leader like his father and follow in his footsteps, when what he would rather do is find himself and not become a copy of someone else. This gives a foreshadowing effect through the book as he follows his own path of enlightenment, but always when Govinda and Siddhartha are reunited, Govinda being able to see God in Siddhartha. The use of the Brahman in this context shows that Siddhartha was able to find a source of peace and content with life inside himself. Both passages, their differences and similarities, add imagery in two different meanings, but still give their own ideas which builds onto the importance of Siddhartha’s journey to enlightenment.
Comparing both passages, they had subtle differences while still getting the background of Siddhartha across to the reader, however, these differences achieve different impacts towards the reader. In the first sentence of both passages, we are introduce to how Siddhartha grew up and in these sentences we experience the symbolism of the sun and shade as stated, “In the shade of the house, in the sunshine of the riverbank near the boats, in the shade of the Sal-wood forest, in the shade of the fig tree is where Siddhartha grew up.” The sun of the riverbank represents how later on in the story, Siddhartha finds enlightenment when he listens intently to the river. Furthermore, the shade represents all objects that stopped Siddhartha from reaching his goal of enlightenment, such as the dangers of the Sal-wood forest and the confinement of his house. By contrasting the two passages I noticed that the second passage minimized passive voice, used more concise language, and in my opinion had a much more meaningful and powerful impact on the reader. Furthermore, the second passage utilizes visual imagery in a much more effective manner by changing and arranging few words, for example, in the first passage the translator states, “practicing debate with Govinda” compared to the second passage as it states, “practicing a verbal battle with Govinda.” A debate has connotations with political aspects and simple disagreements, however, a verbal battle seems more of a fierce clashing of ideas and beliefs and is much more visually appealing than a debate. Another example that shows that the second passage more effectively utilizes visual imagery is seen in the 5th sentence, in the first passage it states “the forehead surrounded by the glow of the clear-thinking spirit,” and in the second passage it states “his forehead enveloped in the luster of his clear-thinking mind.” By changing the word surrounded to enveloped and glow to luster, we can fully visualize that the forehead was not just simply glowing from Siddhartha’s clear-thinking spirit, but completely consumed by the luster and brilliance of his clear thinking mind, which is much more visually apparent. Both passages convey the same story, but the slight differences produce different impacts.
In the first translation of the passage, the passive voice provides a clunkier reading experience than the second translation, which synthesizes the sentence structures in a manner that is much clearer to English speakers than the first translation. Alongside the utilization of the passive voice, there are also a few diction discrepancies in sentences that were clearly intended to be written with parallel structure, such as the shift in “son of the Brahman… son of a Brahman.” This leads me to believe that the first translator did not account for such language discrepancies to accommodate for the translation to the English language. For example, in Spanish, the translation for “my hands” is “las manos” (“the hands”). Likewise, the literal translation for the title is more likely to be “The Son of the Brahman” instead of “The Brahmin’s Son,” as most languages do not use apostrophes to imply possession. Because the first passage appears more literal, Hesse’s intended vocabulary is likely more accurate in the first translation than the second, but the diction in the second passage strengthens the reading otherwise. In the first translation, the passive voice weakens the effect of Hesse’s accurate vocabulary in such phrases as “the forehead surrounded by the glow of the clear-thinking spirit” compared to the much stronger (as it lacks passive voice) “his forehead enveloped in the luster of his clear-thinking mind.” While the second translation is clearer, it is more likely that Hesse intended to depict Siddhartha’s “spirit” as opposed to his “mind”, which carries completely different connotations despite the less clear presentation. So while the effect of the first translation is weaker than that of the second, it appears that the vocabulary is more representative of Hesse’s intentions.
The first passage, The Son of the Brahman, subtly emphasizes Siddhartha’s holiness by associating him with words with holy connotations such as “the glow of the clear-thinking spirit” (sentence 5). We often associate spirit with religion (the Holy Spirit in Christianity), so this makes Siddhartha seem a little holy. This passage also implements the passive voice to emphasize what effect Siddhartha’s early life had on him. For instance, sentence one uses the passive voice in “in the shade of the fig tree is where Siddhartha grew up”. Sentence five also has an example: “the forehead surrounded by the glow of the clear-thinking spirit”. This passive voice places less emphasis on Siddhartha’s own actions and more on how the world around him shaped him. However, in the second passage, the opposite case is true. Less of the passive voice is used, which creates more emphasis on what actions Siddhartha took to shape himself. For example, the passage discusses how “Siddhartha had long been taking part in the conversations of the sages…” and doing a lot of thinking since an early age. By using an active voice for this passage, more of an emphasis is instead placed upon Siddhartha’s talent as a thinker. Overall, both passages consist of similar content with subtle differences in the way sentences are stated that contribute to different tones. Passage one contains a more religious tone, while passage two contains a more intelligent one.
The two passages, although vastly similar, display small differences in the diction and syntax of the text which subtly change the tone of the passages. For example in The Son of the Brahman it says “...in the shade of the fig tree is where Siddhartha grew up.” In comparison The Brahmin’s Son reads, “...in the shade of the fig tree, Siddhartha grew up.” Although these are small, stylistic changes, it affects how the passage reads, almost as if the syntax in the second passage was altered to make it more accessible to English readers. Additionally, passive voice is used more in the first passage which makes it a more interpretive read for the reader whereas the second passage is much clearer and can impact the reader in a much stronger manner. This clarity shines through in the visual imagery such as, “the forehead surrounded by the glow of a clear thinking spirit,” in the first passage which was also translated as, “his forehead enveloped in the luster of his clear-thinking mind.” Through the word selection the visual imagery is clearer in the second passage as Siddhartha’s forehead was not actually glowing, but Siddhartha’s mind had immense clarity. There are many other instances where words were translated similarly but with small differences such as, “speaking it silently,” compared to, “soundlessly speak,” and “during the teachings of his father, the scholar,” compared to “when his father, the scholar, taught him.” It is possible that this is merely a product of the translator trying to be as close to the original text as possible, which is indicative of a difference in philosophy between the translators of translating exact words or translating intended meaning.
Although there are a great deal similarities between the two paragraphs, but there are still a number of differences through syntax and the change of the tone. In the first paragraph, The Son Of The Brahman, the passive voice made the language way harder to read. With the more difficult language to read, a reader must pay way more attention to each and every sentences and details that hides within rather than skimming it through. It also has a much more spiritual tone through diction. For example, in the first paragraph, “In the mango grove, sade poured into his black eyes…” versus in the second paragraph, “Shade flowed into his black eyes in the mango grove…” The second paragraph uses more of a simple sentence structure to read more fluently, and the first paragraph use the inverted word orders to perpetuate the sentence. I prefer the first paragraph more since in this case the inverted sentence structure makes it easier to understand.
In chapters three and four we start by reading of Siddhartha and Govinda looking for the location of the Exalted One. What stood out the most to me over every detail, is what was happening as these boys were asking where the Buddha is. The first sentence of chapter three held a large personal impact. “In the city of Savatthi, every child knew the name of the Exalted Buddha, and every house was prepared to extend charity to Gautama’s disciples, to fill the bowls of the silent petitioners.” When I first read the book, I had no idea what this sentence meant. In fact, I didn’t get the scenario that was being painted at all. When reading this line for the second time, I thought deeper about it. Why are these people giving these beggars so much food? Is there a deeper meaning? Then I remembered, this is a tradition for the Buddhist religion. Being from a Buddhist country, I thought back to when I fed monks in Luang Prabang, a city in north central Laos, my home country in Asia. Forgetting about this tradition and not noticing the familiar scenario, made me feel bad for not noticing my own culture. But because I have experienced the giving of alms at sunrise, I also understand the townspeople’s perspective of the Exalted one giving me a deeper look at the identity of this being. I understand the motives of the people and why they show so much courtesy. This ritual moves into a deeper spiritual level, not just a physical aid. -Jess
I really loved how you were able to share your analysis not just from the view of a student, but from the view of someone who was able to live a life that shared the belief of Buddhism firsthand. I’ve noticed, in myself as well, that when books are able to give the reader something to connect with, such as religion, you are able to relate to the book in a way that you had never thought of previously. I remember when first reading the book The Perks of Being a Wallflower, I wasn’t fully able to understand what was being put in front of me until reading through it again, this time with more curiosity. Overtime, more books, movies, experiences, and other texts have pulled me in more to try to come and understand the true meaning of each and every story.
Something that really stood out to me in chapters three and four was the amount of impatience that was portrayed off of Siddhartha as he was seeking enlightenment from the Samanas. The Samanas believe that you can really eliminate yourself by denying your senses. Govinda was able to succeed and give himself to this technique which Siddhartha did not, becoming frustrated with the teachings of the Samanas and deciding to not continue with them. This is then reflected onto chapter three during the teachings of Gotama, that this man can teach of enlightenment but attaining Nirvana doesn’t help teach other to reach it. I believe that Siddhartha has become corrupted by the idea of obtaining enlightenment, that he has lost the true direction of where he wants to go and has lost his own knowledge of Buddhism by doing so. He has eventually lost the true purpose of his actions and himself as a whole. Siddhartha has always been viewed as a sort of prodigy within his community and he has transformed into someone with a superior attitude and thinks of himself as his own leader, talking down to other characters even his lifelong friend Govinda, rejecting the teachings of all who have tried to influence him. He has become a slave to knowledge and later to earthly possessions, and it takes him off of the path of finding his Self, which makes him unsuccessful and harmful to his body and other. This makes me think about how our everyday life could just be as similar as the life that Siddhartha was living; we all have a goal that we want to achieve in life, whether it be to be a successful business person, attend a 4-year college, or anything else, but along the path to achieving that, there will always a moment in the journey that you feel that you are falling off the path or that you just can’t make it to your goal anymore. But after diving into more depth about what Siddhartha’s journey really meant to him, it made me understand that not everything is based on a spiritual level of need or want, but a physical want as well.
Jessica White: I concur with your view on Siddartha in how he has become “frustrated” and “corrupted”. Throughout these chapters, he seems very impatient and rushed. Not only is your opinion on a solid reason, but I love how you made the connection to everyday life, making this very relatable for all of us. Made me think of moments in my life where I may have done the same thing as Siddhartha. Your inclusion of other characters like Govinda really helps support and show his straying from the path. When you mentioned that Siddhartha got frustrated and decided not to continue with the teachings, it also reminded me that he is new to the world and on the inside still a little boy. -Jess
What stood out to me the most in chapter 3 was the transition in sentence structures in sentences which described Gotama or the Buddha. Almost every single one of those sentences utilizes a subject-predicate structure. The basic nature of those sentences skillfully illustrates Gotama’s own simple personality and lifestyle. However, when Siddhartha engages in discussion with the Gotama, the sentences which involve Gotama begin with more complexity and use adverbs, descriptions or prepositions. These help reveal the deceptively intelligent thinking which lies beneath Gotama’s simple exterior. In addition, the Hesse often employs usage of interesting words such as “quietly” when describing Gotama. Although quiet usually means the absence of noise, it can also represent tranquility. Here is an example of the author using specific word choice to describe Gotama’s actions after one of Siddhartha’s long rants. “Quietly, Gotama had listened to him, unmoved.” “Quietly” accurately describes the manner in which Gotama silently and calmly listens to Siddhartha. However, “unmoved” possesses a less obvious meaning. It doesn’t just explain his state of motion, but also likens him to a boulder; emotionally unmoved and at one with his surroundings. Hesse’s use of words with hidden meanings aptly illustrates Siddhartha’s efforts to comprehend the hidden mysteries of human life as well as Gotama’s success in those endeavors.
Good thinking! I also noticed how easy it was to read and understand chapter 3, when describing Gotama. The description of the Buddha was so peaceful and elegant, and really gave you a sense of what the Buddha would be like in person. We get a deeper understanding of how intelligent and how much Siddhartha thinks and analyzes things in this chapter.
Something I found interesting from chapter three was that Siddhartha never gave his reasoning for not following Gotama to Govinda. When Govinda would ask Siddhartha questions about the next steps he was taking on his personal journey, Siddhartha wouldn’t answer, and would keep the focus of conversation on Govinda. This makes me wonder whether or not Siddhartha was confident in his decision to refrain from the teachings of the Buddha. Perhaps he was afraid that Govina would try to persuade him into becoming a disciple, or afraid that Gotama would refute and find flaws in his way of thinking. Also, it was pretty relevant that Siddhartha seemed to have his mind set on not making a decision. Another thing I found interesting about these chapters was how much Siddhartha analyzed and pondered the teachings of the Buddha. Many people seek refuge in the words of the Buddha-- they don’t search for a flaw in his teachings. However, Siddhartha did. I believe that Siddhartha was trying to find a way to validate his reasoning for not wanting to follow the Buddha. The book would brag about how perfect and amazing the Buddha was. It never once disproved of or hinted at any flaw in the Buddha. So then why did Siddhartha not want to join him? How could you pass up an opportunity to learn from the Exalted One? It is also hypocritical how Siddhartha confesses to the Buddha that he can’t learn from teachings, yet he then goes on to confess that Gotama “gave me Siddhartha, he gave me myself.” This led me to believe that Siddhartha enjoyed wandering, being indecisive and not knowing what he was going to do next. He wasn’t ready to devote his life to one thing, and that is why he tries so hard to find a flaw in every pathway he takes, no matter how perfect it may be for himself.
This is awesome! It almost seems like foreshadowing when Siddhartha gives Govinda the cold shoulder and doesn't share his thought with his him. Siddhartha would later leave Govinda and I think that Siddhartha's behavior towards Govinda is very much a build up towards him leaving and not worshipping Buddha. I agree when you say that Siddhartha is a wandering and indecisive and this definitely justifies his decision to leave Govinda and pursuit his own desires. - Ajay Patel
The most vital aspect of chapter three that stood out to me was when Siddhartha left Govinda. In order to achieve enlightenment, Siddhartha found himself having to leave his best friend, Govinda. Though Govinda had found enlightenment, SIddhartha had yet to achieve his goal. Hesse had executed the separation of Siddhartha and Govinda perfectly, displaying emotion in the text. When Siddhartha told Govinda of his plans to leave, an emotional conversation took place. “Siddhartha laid his hand on Govinda’s shoulder. “You did not listen to my words of aspiration for you and my blessing. I will repeat it. May you follow this path to the end. May you attain Liberation” (25 Hesse). Here, Siddhartha explains his wishes for Govinda to reach liberation. However, it’s a small part of a large event in the book, when Siddhartha leaves Govinda. “In this moment, Govinda realized that his friend had left him, and he began to cry” (25 Hesse). Unlike earlier in the book, the sentences shortened to symbolise the short but rich friendship of Siddhartha and Govinda. I found that when Siddhartha left Govinda, he had became more impatient and had increased his craving for enlightenment. Furthermore, I believe that the plot really began to move quickly and became more intriguing when Siddhartha took on his journey towards enlightenment alone.
I really enjoyed your analysis of the text and I also agree with how Hesse displayed emotion in illustrating the the separation of Siddhartha and Govinda. I also felt the tension and the emotions of the broken relationship while reading that part of the chapter. The idea of how the shortening of the sentence symbolized the short but rich friendship that Govinda and Siddhartha had is a wonderful interpretation of it and I completely agree with it. It is sad to see this friendship end, but it is for Siddhartha’s quest for enlightenment and his own pursuit to achieve what he wants.
After reading chapter 3 and 4, I believe that these chapters are one of the most powerful and meaningful chapters in the novel as they mark the true beginning of Siddhartha’s quest to find enlightenment. Chapter 3 begins with Siddhartha and Govinda witnessing Gotama and his teachings. What I found interesting about this part was how Siddhartha did not feel like he could learn anything from the Buddha, therefore he focused on closely analyzing Gotama’s behavior. By Siddhartha’s descriptions, the reader knows that Gotama is not an ordinary individual as it states,“it seemed to Siddharta as if every joint of every finger of this had was a teacher who spoke, breathed of, exhaled the fragrance of, and shone forth with truth.” By showing that Gotama’s entire body radiated truth, it symbolized that Gotama has reached enlightenment, but Siddhartha still refuses to follow his teachings because he believes that no one could guide him to enlightenment and that wisdom is learned through experiences and cannot be learned from words. In my personal opinion, Siddhartha’s ideas of achieving wisdom is a mentality that I have as well, I cannot just learn from words I need to experience things to achieve further knowledge. His mentality leads me to believe that he is a wanderer that persists to experience new things to find himself and His mentality also leads me to believe that this might a reason to why Siddhartha left Govinda behind to Gotama. Siddhartha must find his own self and seek enlightenment alone without distractions and with Govinda with him it would manifest another obstacle on his journey, therefore, Siddhartha decides to travel on his own. These chapters sent Siddhartha on the path to find enlightenment and are why it’s in an integral part of the novel.
I definitely agree on your point that Chapter three and four are pivotal moments in the book, especially since Govinda and Siddhartha part ways. Siddhartha tried to learn from Gotama through his oral teachings and additionally through one on one questioning. However, as he saw the truth in the teachings, what Siddhartha focused on was a flaw. Even Gotama said, “...be warned about the thicket of opinions and the fight over words.” Siddhartha believed himself that the key to enlightenment was experience, and I do not believe he is wrong. However, I think that additionally, it was his ego that caused him to reject following Gautama. As he said in chapter four about his ego, “But I could not overcome it, I could only deceive it, could only flee from it, only hide from it.” Later, he embraced his ego and joined the world which was part of his journey in which he was able to learn from experience and be enlightened, so he did fulfill his own personal mission.
The most thought provoking line in chapter three and four of Siddhartha was the end of Siddhartha’s conversation with Gautama. Gautama said, “You are clever, O samana, ... You know how to speak cleverly, my friend. Beware of too much cleverness.” Siddhartha’s whole goal in life was to be rid of his own ego, but his own proficiency in such spiritual matters served to fuel his ego. It was only until he met Gautama, the Enlightened One, that he came to this realization. Throughout chapter four, Siddhartha is pondering his own life up to this point and this thinking was only accentuated by the long and flowy sentences that Herman Hesse opted to use to portray this deep pondering. One prime example of this is, “He realized that one thing had left him like the old skin that leaves the serpent, that one thing that was no longer within him, a thing that had accompanied him throughout his youth and had belonged to him: the wish to have teachers and hear teachings.” This single sentence contains forty-seven words and is almost it’s own paragraph. These long run-on sentences are common in this chapter, a good representation of the way the human mind wanders gradually to conclusions.
You have made an excellent point there that Siddhartha needs to lose his ego. However, I would like to argue that losing too much ego can also be a bad thing. Ego by definition means self-importance. Later in the book we see that Siddhartha tried to starve himself and almost died from it, which is an ego of almost nothing. I think what Gautama actually mean when he said that “Beware of too much cleverness.” is that treat everyone and even himself with respect and do not let anyone else’s importance get above another’s. So essentially the golden rule, love your neighbor as yourself.
One of the most fascinating things I found in chapter 3 and 4 was the word “awakening”. It has been repeated throughout the chapter and even in the title. It represents how Siddhartha wakes up from his luxurious childhood and stepping into a life of wonder and peace. Where he lets go of his old self and most importantly, Govinda. Govinda is siddhartha’s best childhood friend, in order for him to go on his search for enlightenment. “Siddhartha opened his eyes and looked around him, a mile filled his face, and a deep sensation of awakening from long dreams streamed through him even into his toes.” this is a literal case of awakening from the past to the future however, in this case, he foresaw and learned all of his mistakes that he has made. As he advances through his searchings, he then gets temped and wants to go back to his old life. A literal sense would be his woke up from his nap and not too long later he wants to sleep again but he has not completed his task yet. “Siddhartha, too, felt longing, felt the root of his sex moving.... He hesitated a moment,...the voice said no.” In order for Siddhartha to reach his searching of enlightenment, he must be fully “awake”, even when temptation comes by, he must learn to ignore it. If he was living his old life, he would have yes in no time. Some people might call that an “awakening”, others might say it is just maturity.
I agree with your point and how awakening is like maturity in the sense but I also think Hesse used this word in particular because Siddhartha isn't just waking up from following others and living this life, he's also opening his eyes to life. He's beginning to finally understand that the power he's trying to achieve is something unteachable because enlightenment is something you find within yourself. Hesse writes at the beginning of chapter 4, " The Yogaveda will teach me no longer, nor the Atharvaveda, nor the ascetics, nor any other teaching. I will learn from myself, be my own student. I will learn about myself, about the mystery of Siddhartha". So yes he's finding reality, but he's also finding himself through his "awakening".
In chapters 3 and 4 I noticed the author used a lot of imagery and how subtle Hesse was with the amount of language he used when describing the scenery. Just in chapter 3 alone, int he first few pages, I could visualize everything in my head as I read along. For example, towards the beginning of chapter 3 Govinda and Siddhartha go the Jeta Grove and seek out the Exalted One, the author writes, "Along the paths of the magnificent grove, yellow-robed monks were moving... The shady gardens gave the impression of a city full of people, swarming like bees. The majority of monks were leaving with their alms bowls to gather food in the city for the midday meal, the only meal of the day," (Siddhartha, Translated by Sherab Chodzin Kohn). I feel as if I'm walking alongside Siddhartha myself when I read that passage. Hesse uses great word choice to make his writing interesting and inviting for the audience to read.
Something I found interesting from chapter 5 was the dream that Siddhartha had about Govinda. I think his dream symbolizes the change he is currently undergoing. “The milk from this breast tasted sweet and strong. It tasted of woman and man, of sun and forest, of beast and flower, of every fruit, of every desire. It made one drunk and unaware.” This whole passage is foreshadowing of what is to come later in the chapter, and the next few chapters, as well. Siddhartha gives into temptation and desire once he meets Kamala. Also, the way Hermann Hesse uses such contrasting words to describe the taste of the breast milk, represents the 180 degree turn his life is taking. He goes from being a shramana, people who believe in a low maintenance, spiritual life, to a businessman, who owns expensive material items and partakes in an intimate relationship with Kamala. Siddhartha is starting to explore a different side of the world, a side of physical love and interaction, and that is extremely different than the life he was just living. Ultimately, I believe that Siddhartha’s interactions and encounters with Kamaswami and Kamala shines light that people see the world from different perspectives, and you can learn different things from different people. Kamala has been just as good of a teacher as Gotama, they just teach and look through different lenses. This suggests that although Siddhartha believes he must learn through his own experiences, he is still learning through other people.
This is a great observation! I agree with your point in which the dream symbolizes the change Siddhartha is going thru. Adding on, I see the dream as adding a theme of regret to the plot. Siddhartha has affected many of his close people and family in wake of his journey. The dream possibly indicates his regrets that he may have towards leaving Govinda. - Ajay Patel
In chapter four and five, Siddhartha undergoes a tremendous transformation. After he left Govinda, SIddhartha had embarked towards a city and really interacted and met people for the first time in the plot. In the beginning of chapter four, Siddhartha encounters a great natural scape. Herman Hesse described this scene with detailed imagery, which I believe was symbolism for Siddhartha's new step in his journey towards enlightenment. “He saw the sun rise over the wooded hills and go down over the distant palm-lined shore. At night he saw the stars arrayed across the sky and the crescent moon floating like a boat in the blue. He saw trees, stars, animals, clouds, rainbows, rocks, herbs, flowers, streams, and rivers dew glittering on the brush in the morning, distant lofty peaks blue and pale” (Hesse 37). I see this imagery, particularly the part in which “the sun rose over the wooded hills” symbolize new hope for SIddhartha’s journey. Before, Siddhartha became impatient and saddened when he failed to reach enlightenment with Govinda, but now he felt a renewal of hope. Not only does this imagery add greatly to the plot and symbolism of the story, but it allows the reader to picture and imagine the scene in where SIddhartha is present. Adding on, the description of the natural scape and it’s features adds a peaceful tone to Hesse’s text. This tone lines with one of the plots key factors; meditation and enlightenment, to be peaceful and one with nature. Overall, I really enjoyed the amazing imagery Hesse added in chapters four and five.
Great insight on the chapter! I also noticed this imagery that Hesse included. I agree with your statement of how the imagery symbolizes a new step in Siddhartha’s journey, I believe that he is taking a step into the sensory world and departing from his past spiritual world and that is why he describes what he sees in immense detail. Moreover, the imagery, as you described, was wonderfully descriptive and as a reader, I could vividly picture the scene.
While reading chapter 5, the first thing the author has you read is a long, wordy paragraph of Siddhartha simply describing what he sees around him. While reading this passage, I could almost feel Siddhartha's contentment through the words. It is made note that prior to this stage in Siddhartha’s life, all of these things in nature that he is enjoying was invisible to him. “This all, all this, thousandfold and particolored, had always been there, the sun and moon had always shone, always the rivers had rushed and the bees buzzed, but that was in former times when, for Siddhartha, all this had been nothing but a transient and illusory veil before his eyes, to be regarded with distrust, destined to be pierced by thought and utterly destroyed, for it was not essence- essence lay beyond the visible.” When reading the first paragraph of this chapter, I see he is observing how he is seeing things in a new light. This is an important moment, showing how when there is a slight change of character, there is a mental effect to a higher degree, such as it is so powerful it changes how you view things physically. I feel like authors often do this to their characters when they fall in love, or are sad. “ their hearts showed the world in a rosy color” or “the world had never looked so gray”. Hermann Hesse, pulls all of Siddhartha’s observations together, saying that is almost childlike in the sense of how he observes his surroundings which I also found significant. -Jess
I agree with what you said about how Hesse tends to pull in all of Siddhartha’s observations and display them in a more childlike manner. It has often come across to the reader that Siddhartha is seen as the teacher and the adult, rather than the student and the child, just as you explained in your post that he is seeing, feeling, and being tried as if for the first time. By giving Siddhartha a more childlike, outward attitude, it becomes more clear to understand of what Hesse is trying to get across to his audience: when one becomes so determined that it takes you over, part of yourself disappears and it feels that you are having to start all over from birth.
These chapters heavily intrigued me because of the many symbols that were introduced. The first symbol is the river and in the novel, Siddhartha travels across the river with the help of the ferryman. Moreover, Siddhartha could not pay the ferryman for his deeds, but the ferryman does not mind as he states that he learned from the river: “everything comes again.” This quote heavily foreshadows the return of Siddhartha and symbolizes the cycle of life as everyone experiences an endless cycle of rebirth, existence and death. Everyone is a subject to recurrence. Furthermore, the river represents the boundary between the sensory world and the spiritual world, therefore, by having Siddhartha cross the river it represents how he is transforming his ideals. In the past, Siddhartha denied his senses as he believed them to be the source of his suffering, however, as seen in the first part of the chapter 5, we see that he has become increasingly aware of his senses and embraced the world as quoted “He saw trees, stars, animals, clouds, rainbows.All of these thousands of colorful things had always been there.” Further representing his separation from the spiritual world is the character of Kamala. As Siddhartha meets Kamala, he is quickly amazed by her beauty and falls in love with her, which then leads Siddhartha to become fully immersed in the sensory world. As we learned in class, in Hinduism there are the goals of human existence or Purusharthas, one of them is known as ‘Kama’(Also the root word for Kamala), meaning love and desire, thus, Kamala will awaken Siddhartha’s lost senses of love and will cause him to fully experience his senses. The symbols of Kamala and the River from these chapters were crucial to Siddhartha’s journey for enlightenment.
Great analysis! The use of symbolism through the river really brought out the growth of Siddhartha. Like all rivers, he starts out small from a creek, and as he gets closer to his end journey for enlightenment, the river gets wider and wider. Gathering all the water and leaving the rocks and dirts behind. In a way, Siddhartha is like a river. A river’s end goal is to go into the ocean, get evaporated up and eventually rains down every where. Siddhartha is not much different. He goes on a journey for enlightenment, gathers wisdom and knowledge, becomes enlightened and rains down an enormous amount of influence on a lot of people.
Lately, it seems that there are two timelines that are overlapping in Siddhartha’s story - one, his natural life, starting as the son of the Brahmin, and the other being the journey of his enlightenment, which needed a birth of its own - but it’s only now that he suggests that the physical world is going to be clear in the next stage of his journey. Siddhartha comes to realize that the qualities that he admired in Gautama are of the self, and not words. “I can think. I can wait. I can fast ” (Pg. 64). This understanding shows us that he is considering himself with the same importance, and that the only way to climb to spiritual heights is to listen to your own voice, not ignoring the demands of the self. Although Siddhartha is now following his own path, he is still searching for guidance and making changes, even if his own self is being tried. For the first time, his own strength and skills is equaled by the strength of nature and the power of Kamala’s body and beauty, and for the first time, one doesn’t look up to Siddhartha but looks downward, as if he is the child. Sometimes it takes seeing the virtues of others for Siddhartha to see them in himself again, just as the Buddha inspired him to follow his own path to enlightenment.
Jessica White: I find what you pointed out very interesting. I never saw that or had thought about it in this perspective before. I like the quote you are using as an example, I feel like this sentence really does say a lot about his path and overall being. I agree with your take on Siddhartha's path, your comparisons to Siddhartha's strength, nature, the power of beauty, all of these components made for one one solid point. -Jess
In chapter 5, the author’s introduction of the natural world as well as Siddhartha’s newfound appreciation for this world foreshadows how Siddhartha will soon deeply immerse himself in the daily affairs of normal people. Hesse’s line “But now, his liberated eyes stayed on this side…” illustrates that Siddhartha’s eyes are free from the “deception” of his previous experiences as a pure thinker (which is ironic, given that people such as the ascetics and the monks are supposed to be the truth-seekers) which led him into a false sense of superiority over the commoners. Hesse also employs an abundance of passive voice in the passage describing Siddhartha’s sensual appreciation of the natural world, which could symbolize a core belief of Existentialism by highlighting Siddhartha’s irrelevance to the world; the world doesn’t care about you and you are alone in a hostile universe. We also see this feeling of irrelevance later in chapter 5, where Siddhartha easily dismisses the issues of his lack of traits valuable to normal society: fine clothing, wealth, social standing, etc.
I definitely agree with your analysis the author definitely uses irony in these chapters to accentuate Siddhartha’s sudden transformation. Siddhartha definitely used his status as a Samana to look down on the other people of the world. It is interesting to see how even though he joins the ranks of commoners and does the same stuff they do, he always sees himself as different. As it says, “Yet he still felt different from the others and superior to them; he always watched them with a touch of scoffing, with a touch of scorn…” This is part of his ego that he never really overpowered, even though he spent his whole life trying to do so.
Chapters five and six are all about transformation with all from Siddhartha’s view on the world to his status in society changing. A quote on the first page of the chapter five, “But now his liberated eyes remained on this side, he saw and acknowledged visibility, he sought his home in this world, did not seek reality, did not aim at any beyond.” Siddhartha overcame his disgust at the world and saw beauty in everything around him, taking long strides away from the spiritual world and into the physical world. When Siddhartha meets Kamala, his priorities change. He start to put materialistic ambitions and his own physical desire above spirituality. His slow transition was explained vividly by Herman Hesse, “Slowly, the way moisture creeps into the dying tree stump, slowly filling it and rotting it, worldliness and slothfulness had crept into Siddhartha’s soul; slowly they filled his soul, made it heavy, made it weary, lulled it to sleep.” Although, characteristic of the novel, Siddhartha’s own transition cycled around and he came to view the world with scorn.
Good analysis! We really see a big change in Siddhartha in these two chapters, and he is starting to value the real world more now that he has become a part of it. I thought that the quotes you picked out were super influential as well. Kamala has brought out a side of Siddhartha we haven't seen yet, and it is very odd to see Siddhartha not in touch with his spiritual side. You can really see how temptation and desire are obstacles everyone must face in religion and their inevitable meaning of "enlightenment."
One of the things I found fascinating about chapter 5 and 6 is that temptation came into Siddhartha’s life as soon as he becomes independent. Towards the end of chapter 5, “Siddartha, too, felt longing, felt the root of his sex moving; but since he had never yet touched a woman, he hesitated a moment, just as his hands were on the verge of grasping her. And in this moment….his innermost voice said NO.” This is one of his first of many temptations on his journey. Here we see that Siddhartha had really moved on from his past life, if it was him just a couple years earlier, he would have made a move for sure. In Chapter 6, when conversing with Kamaswami for the first time, Siddhartha explained that putting off hunger can let him focus on more important matters. There has to be a reason Hesse included two distinct instances of how fasting can be useful. They possibly show that Siddhartha did not leave the Samanas empty-handed; that he left them with a stronger mind and body than before. He now place his physical body just slightly over his spiritual since he found out the hard way that there must be balance.
In chapter 5 of Siddhartha, his thoughts and dream revert back to his old friend Govinda. In his dream, it appears that he does indeed miss his friend, but it also foreshadows his imminent change and temptation (when he meets Kamala). However, contrary to what the dream appears to indicate regarding Siddhartha’s positive feelings for Govinda, the intentions behind his next thought are less blatant: “He is like Govinda… All are thankful, although they themselves have the right to be thanked. All are subservient, all want to be friends, like to obey, think little. People are children.” It is unclear whether he was indeed appreciative of people such as Govinda, who appeared to care for Siddhartha very much. He dictates many compliments regarding his friend, but the phrase “People are children” indicates that, while he may be grateful for his old friend, he may believe that he doesn’t truly deserve much respect, as children generally aren’t respected (ironic, as Siddhartha himself is still basically a child, especially considering that his transformed viewpoint is comparable to that of a child, as well). Such positive emotions are also contrary to his seemingly total lack of care for Govinda, which could be an indication of his transformation taking effect in not only his actions, but his thoughts as well. While it is unclear what Siddhartha feels about his “friend” Govinda, it is evident that he is at least a large influence in Siddhartha’s search for enlightenment.
I agree that Siddhartha is definitely conflicted about the role that Siddhartha plays in his life. I believe that the appearance of Govinda in the dream was an indication to his subconscious gratitude towards Govinda of which he would never admit consciously. He definitely looks down on the people around him, especially since he is not close to anyone other than Kamala and Govinda. It is merely another manifestation of his large ego which is expected of someone with such a life as he did. It was only until he overcame this obstacle that he ever achieved enlightenment as he hoped.
Siddhartha made an amazing transformation in the wake of these chapters. The boy went from starving himself, and wandering almost naked through the wilderness, to becoming a well dressed and well fed worker in the city. It seems that Siddhartha has almost abandoned his journey. Siddhartha became much more social and started to interact with Kamaswami, his boss at work, and with others in the city. However, the text stated that “Siddhartha regarded all of this as a game” (52 Hesse). This leaves me to believe that Siddhartha does still have intentions to resume his journey to enlightenment. This would also explain the fact that Siddhartha did not drink wine or eat meat when given to him, in fact he only ate once a day. I found interest in the transformation of Siddhartha and it shocked me as a reader. Siddhartha also showed that he remained generous, as he went to a village and gave copper coins to children. Overall, Siddhartha's transformation is made to believe that he has abandoned his journey, but there are small factors that replenish the hopes for enlightenment. I also looked at the stages of Hinduism. One of the stages of Hinduism is to have a noble profession and to have success in life. Siddhartha appears to do this when he works as a merchant in the city. This yet again is another factor.
In the chapter By the River, Siddhartha has become so determined to find the path to enlightenment, and bred for holiness, that when he feels that part of himself disappear, it is as if life is over. It seems that he has come to a dead end on his path, and even the world around him feels pointless. After living the life of a merchant and been taken in by the games of business and wealth, Siddhartha has begun to feel himself separated from what he used to be, but the only word that is still able to show Siddhartha’s oneness and wisdom that he seeks is ‘om’. The simple word that has spoken to him since he was a young man and now as a seeker of knowledge, of all which now comes to him, just like the water, naturally and easily. His cycles of awakening and unease have become clear, such as the river, because it is always regenerating and always inspiring. Listening is a skill that we have not heard yet in the book of being that of importance. We all know about Siddhartha’s ability to wait and fast, and think, and now his abilities to gamble and make love, but listening presents itself now as the holiest, most honest of virtues. It connects the essence of the ferryman, Vasudeva, to that of the river, and promises Siddhartha that he too could be like nature. It has become clear that the power of nature is extreme, being able to wash away not just the material things of the towns, but also it’s anxiety and sin.
I totally agree! We see nature play a huge part and take on a significant role in these chapters. Nature, especially the river, is Siddhartha's final teacher on his quest and search of enlightenment. I think that the self awareness we saw grow inside of Siddhartha in these two chapters was super refreshing. He learns that he was too greedy and drunk with the thought of finding enlightenment, that he was overthinking and over analyzing every decision he was making. Now, Siddhartha is finally setting on his own path, a path of passion and connection to nature, that will ultimately lead to his enlightenment.
Agreed. I think the river is symbolism for lots of things in SIddhartha. Specifically, I think it symbolizes the path to enlightenment and new hopes for Siddhartha's journey. I enjoyed the diction that Hesse used to describe this moment. - Ajay Patel
The chapter “By the River” starts out with Siddhartha contemplating suicide. He thinks that because he has taken so many different paths to try and achieve enlightenment, there is nothing left for him besides death. He doesn’t believe that he will ever reach nirvana. I believe that a lot Siddhartha’s actions in the beginning of this chapter represent the same childlike behavior we have been noticing previously in the book. For example, when Siddhartha says “He saw the reflection of his face and spat at it.” Spitting at someone/thing you dislike is very childlike, and very immature as well. Also, kids are more likely to give up on something if it doesn’t go exactly as planned, and that is what Siddhartha wants to do through suicide. He is giving up on life, and this shows how disconnected he has become from his spiritual self. One of the first precepts for buddhists is to refrain from the destruction of life, yet Siddhartha is so eager and ready to put an end to his own. When the OM is revived from himself, it is then that we know Siddhartha’s path to enlightenment will be through spirituality and nature, not the physical and material world. Even though that part of his past was important and offered some wisdom, it does not define who he is and will become.
Jessica White: I feel the same way about his contemplation of suicide. He does come across in a fairly childlike manner. Along with agreeing with your point, I also feel as if it really shows a humanistic side of Siddhartha. The one with flaws and the overflowing feelings of questioning, regret, sadness, and emptiness. He relates to all of us at one point in our life where we don’t know where to go after a certain point. I feel as if all of us can make a very intimate connection with this part of the book, even in a small way. -Jess
In the chapter By the River, I noticed the wording that we discussed in class between Govinda and Siddhartha has changed. The way that they talk to each other upon meeting again is familiar, yet distant. “It gladdens me to see you again.” Siddhartha said this line to Govinda, and I noticed that the entire encounter sounded very formal. Through how they talk to each other, you can tell that they are establishing their different choices of path. Each of them both sound mature, yet show similar mannerisms as to when they were younger. Through their smiles, you can tell that all of the things Siddhartha said while leaving Govinda is in the past to Govinda, him carving his own path. “But pardon, o Siddhartha, you do not resemble a pilgrim.” This is another line this time from Govinda represents another example of the distance set between Siddhartha and Govinda. You can easily sense the maturity, distance, and familiarity through just their words without action. -Jess
I totally agree that there is definitely a change in the exchanging of words between Siddhartha and Govinda, not only the sense of maturity, distance, and familiarity, but it also feels like because they have not seen each other in such a long time, that there feels to be an awkward silence between the two, not knowing what to say to each other. Both Siddhartha and Govinda have not seen each other in a while, both choosing to follow a different path towards enlightenment. I also agree with what you had to say in Mallory’s post, that one of his flaws is his humanistic side, being able to start having feelings of questioning, regret, sadness, and emptiness. Siddhartha’s humanistic side comes out when he begins to see Govinda again and all his feelings that were buried deep down came out, his idea of not needing anyone in his life being opposed.
“By the River,” is a very strong and meaningful chapter as it begins with Siddhartha believing that he cannot move further on and wants to commit suicide. The symbol of the river returns confirming what Vasudeva said in the previous chapter in which he believes that everything comes again. Furthermore, with the samanas he was able to abstain himself from physical desires and with Kamala in the city, he was able to fully experience his senses, therefore, coming back to the river symbolizes the middle way, which is between the two extremes of sensual indulgence and self-deprivation. By representing the middle way, the river foreshadows that Siddhartha will find enlightenment through the river. Another surprising factor of this chapter was the symbolic meaning of Om. At the climax of this novel, Siddhartha symbolically dies as stated “With his eyes closed, he slipped towards death.” He is resurrected by the sound of the word “Om,” everytime Om is heard by Siddhartha, it brings him back to a higher state of realization. When Siddhartha heard this word in this part of the chapter, he was transformed to a new version of himself as stated, “this Siddharth was nonetheless transformed, renewed and was well rested, joyful and curious.” Siddhartha has come to the realization that it was not possible to reach enlightenment by resisting all desires or through complete sensory indulgence,but he is determined to find a balance between the two achieve his goals.
Great analysis, Keri! The significance of the Om certainly bears great importance on Siddhartha, both the novel and the character. An interesting note: consider the three main appearances of the Om in his life. He mentions it when meditating at the start, it awakens him in the middle, and his final resolution involves him hearing the Om. I'd go so far as to say the Om builds the pace of the novel, as present with Siddhartha as he would argue it is in all of us.
Siddhartha is a man of extreme. He lived the first half of his life as a religious man, an ascetic, devoted to the ways of spirituality. The second portion was spent living in gluttony, indulging his senses until they were almost dulled. “As I child I learned that wealth and worldly pleasure are not good. I knew it for a long time, but I experienced it only now. And now I know it, know it not only with my memory, but also with my eyes, with my heart , with my stomach. Good for me that I know it.” In the chapter “By The River” Siddhartha has left his life with Kamala and found freedom by returning to the river. The physical and metaphoric boundary between these two lives was the river. Siddhartha spent his whole life on one side of the river pursuing his spiritual journey once this chapter was over he crossed over into his material life. However, due to his true nature as a spiritual man he returned to this border to live on it. This is representative of how enlightenment is found not solely in the spiritual world or in the physical world, but in fact is found on the border between both.
Good analysis! I also agree with your statement of how that Siddhartha returning to river represents how that enlightenment is not just found in the spiritual world or the physical world, but between them in a balanced state. Siddhartha lived in both extremes, as a Samand he lived by self-denial and with Kamala he lived with self-gratification, however, none of these methods proved successful. Therefore, by returning to the river, he has found the middle way that balances these two extremes to reach enlightenment.
Throughout "Siddhartha," readers witness the river playing three distinct roles in relation to Siddhartha: a baptism, a protection, and enlightenment. Here, we see the second role, the idea of protection, how the river itself keeps Siddhartha alive. Clearly, sitting on the banks of the river indicates its significance, and as Siddhartha contemplates his own death, one argues the presence of the river, metaphorically, keeps him safe. In the midst of his disarray, Siddhartha safely falls asleep alongside the banks of the river, despite many natural threats that could, normally, harm him. Time frame plays a role, as well; recall how long Siddhartha spent with Kamala. Given all of this time, the time for much of his development, the river stayed there, unwavering, forgiving of Siddhartha's mistakes. Clear connections exist, for the purposes of Christian theology, to God, despite this being a largely Buddhist novel, but another connection draws from the quality of a good friend. We expect friends to be loyal, protective, enlightening, and freeing-- all acts the river exemplifies. In this way, the river could be, perhaps, Siddhartha's greatest companion, one that continuously assists him in his life-long quest, filling a need and standing by him in times of woe.
Louis Zhang The most obvious symbolism from “By the River” consists of the passage in which Siddhartha nearly commits suicide. “He only knew that his previous life...--that his previous life had been abandoned by him…” The beginning of the chapter clearly shows how Siddhartha abandons his previous life and become baptised or reborn in the river when he realizes the futility of his actions. It contains many more multitudes of references to reincarnation, including Siddhartha’s comment on his “deep sleep” (symbolizing his spiritual death and rebirth). They also mirror the section in chapter 4 when Siddhartha previously “threw away” his life experiences, thus fulfilling Sansara. Siddhartha’s reunion with Govinda also reflects how Siddhartha massively changes from this transformation, given that Govinda can’t recognize him. Later in the chapter, the symbol of the bird singing for joy as well as the death of the “thing” inside Siddhartha symbolizes his freedom from the shackles of society. The symbol of the “buzzing bee”, however, puzzles me greatly. In summary, this chapter contained a plethora of mysterious, symbolic language which highlighted the mystery of Siddhartha’s revelation.
In the chapter Govinda, we start to get a sense of a conclusion through small actions the characters do. One of the quotes Siddhartha says to Govinda shows his perspective on his teachings. “I have had thoughts, yes, and insights, ever and always. Sometimes, for an hour or for a day, I have felt knowledge within me, just as one of the thoughts I have found: Wisdom cannot be conveyed. The wisdom a sage attempts to convey always sounds like folly.” This quote is significant to Siddhartha’s path to enlightenment and relevant to the discussion we had in class about whether enlightenment can be taught. Siddhartha seems to feel he is or has, reached a conclusion in his life to a question many people ask even now outside of the book. Govinda is still searching for his own form of enlightenment. He seems to want to know the “big secret” by asking Siddhartha how he has found his way and who taught him. I feel that it is also important to note that Siddhartha in this quote also says that he has had thoughts and insights as ever and always. Govinda has grown up with Siddhartha and has grown up with these thoughts and insights, I feel as if this is Siddhartha trying to make a personal connection with Govinda and their friendship. -Jess
Siddhartha’s humbleness in “Om” stood out to me as a sign that he had truly begun to achieve enlightenment. Before, he coldly distanced himself from other people and from his emotions as well, looking upon his own life as a bystander. By detracting his humanity from himself, he was inherently unable to achieve enlightenment of the human spirit. His newfound humility, exhibited in the beginning of “Om”, allows him to earnestly study the reasons why people live. “Differently than before, he now looked upon people, less smart, less proud, but instead warmer, more curious, more involved.” Hesse’s implementation of long, drawn-out sentences describing all kinds of people in one breath also emphasizes the equality among them. When the reader has little time to focus on the characteristics of different kinds of people, the reader instead focuses more on the broader picture. The relative lack of dialogue in “Om” also highlights the irrelevance of words for enlightenment, something which returns from earlier on in the story. For example, Siddhartha attains enlightenment from listening to the river because the river doesn’t use words to convey the mysteries of human life. In my opinion, this component of the story serves to illustrate a theme; we can only obtain enlightenment for ourselves by drawing from our life experiences and reflecting on the connections they have.
Great post! I agree with you when you pointed out that it seemed like in this particular chapter that Siddhartha had really begun to see what to true enlightenment was. The fact that he was able to identify what it truly took for him to receive and experience complete nirvana also shows the fact that the step taken are not all teaching, but experience as well. I also liked how you were able to involve Hesse, and show what the true purpose is of his long, drawn out sentences are: creating a more prominent visual in the reader’s mind.
Though Siddhartha had played the game of the child people when he lived in town in the service of the merchant, it is only after sharing his life with his blood son and giving so much of himself in sacrifice, that he truly understands and respects the love and desire that dominates the child people. Natural emotion and love become high qualities now that Siddhartha has experienced them enough to truly understand them. Siddhartha, who was once devoted entirely to the pursuit of enlightenment, now shares his devotion between his role as a father and his role as the old sage that we see him become. But neither lessens the other - in fact, the acknowledgement of the fatherhood gives Siddhartha a greater scope to his wisdom. As the river always appears as a symbol of rightness and oneness, it does so again here, telling Siddhartha that his feelings are still going in the right direction. Anything and everything seems like it can be used for inspiration for Siddhartha now. In the beginning of his journey, when he began learning from the Brahma and the ascetics, the goal was ultimate knowledge, but now every little thing is valuable and provides wisdom. It becomes clear that Siddhartha’s individual path to enlightenment comes into focus, he has not mimicked the path of any other even though his enlightenment is the same quality of the Buddha’s. This shows that enlightenment is enlightenment, no matter how it arrives. He has begun to wear the smile of the Buddha and we can see that he has followed his own path and reached its peak. It also becomes a moment of enlightenment for Govinda, seeing that he is now a saintly shadow, communicating that with an experience and a connection, that it is not about following teachings, but it is about the learning from the experience of the world.
Good insight! I totally agree that Siddhartha has reached enlightenment in this case. Although the way it came to him was not expected, Siddhartha is happy and has gained knowledge through his fatherhood. I also agree that Siddhartha now being a father has pushed him forward as a person and has bettered him overall. -Ajay Patel
Siddhartha shifts his focus from total enlightenment and attempts to become a family figure. When I first read this, I expected Siddhartha to be one with himself towards the closing of the plot. However, Hesse surprised me by placing Siddhartha in a city and making him a dad. In class, we had talked about the stages of Hinduism and that one of the crucial stages consisted of becoming successful both financially and with family. Siddhartha now looks to be entering this phase. He now transfers from the journey of total enlightenment to becoming a man of respect and success. Siddhartha having a family causes him to open up his eyes. He no longer is impatient like he was in the past, he is happy, and some may say happiness reached enlightenment. Throughout the story, I wondered what Siddhartha wanted from enlightenment. I think it was happiness, he wanted to find happiness and before he felt that the only way was total enlightenment. However, I now see that Siddhartha has found some happiness with his family. His journey changed and he gained new knowledge on life from his family, and the people around him, this is a change from the beginning of the story. Perhaps he has reached enlightenment, Siddhartha is happy, and in my opinion, this is the main aspect of enlightenment.
Good connection!. It is definitely clear to see how Siddhartha goes through all the stages of life in Hinduism before he achieves enlightenment. Since he had experienced Kama with Kamala and Grihastha through the wealth and grandeur in which he lived, he was able to move on to the more spiritual stages that occur after retirement. With Vasudeva, he was able to experience Vanaprastha, in which he no longer focuses on material wants and instead on his spiritual needs. As Siddhartha is able to achieve Moksha, the transcendent state, he almost perfectly is an example of the objectives and stages of life in Buddhism.
Although Siddhartha was one of the child people, he always saw himself as separate. It took a connection with these people for him to truly sympathize. This connection came with the presence of his son. It seems as though through losing something so significant to him, he was able to overcome his largest obstacle, his ego. It started lessening when he left his life and asked to be Vasudeva’s apprentice, however it remained until he was able to feel empathy. As he was able to feel this oneness, Hermann Hesse, returned to one of the most prevalent themes of the book, life is cyclical. Siddhartha himself realized this as it says, “Was it not a comedy, a strange and stupid thing, this repetition, this running in a fateful circle?” As was obvious, Siddhartha himself had done the same to his father, and it was only natural that it would happen to himself. As Siddhartha was able to hear the “om”, it is clear that Siddhartha was not only learning from his teachers, but also from the whole world around him as he was able to listen to the “great song of the thousand voices”. The lack of dialogue in these chapters and the strong focus on the imagery of the world around them was indicative of how enlightenment was an internal process that was importantly connected to the world. In the end of the Chapter “Om”, Hesse focuses strongly on auditory imagery as Siddhartha is realising his oneness and listens to the world.
Great insight on the chapters! I also agree that Herman Hesse emphasized that life is cyclical. One of the main buddhist and hindu belief is that life is governed by karma and that it is an endless cycle of suffering and pain. Hesse conveys this motif to the reader throughout the novel. I also agree that Siddhartha is learning from hearing “Om,” it represents how Siddhartha is gaining knowledge from experiencing the world around him and not from the pointless words of teachers.
Throughout the novel, we see the motif of the cycle of life, however, in the chapter ‘Om,’ it is further emphasized. Siddhartha is very depressed about losing his son and one day when he looks into the river it laughs at him. Siddhartha looks at his reflection and he sees his father as stated, “It resembled the face of his father, the Brahmin.” This is evident of how life is a cycle, Siddhartha realizes how he has suffered the same fate as his father. Siddhartha’s son has left him in the same way that Siddhartha has left his father in the past. The river shows how everything is experienced again and suggest that the present time is affected by all time before it. In Buddhism and Hinduism, the wheel of Samsara exists, in which there is an endless cycle of rebirth, existing, and death, governed by karma. The river represents this cycle of samsara as Siddhartha always returns to it and the river also shows Siddhartha that the “same pain was suffered time and time again.” In this chapter, it is revealed that Vasudeva is a godly character and served as a guide to Siddhartha. When Siddhartha reached enlightenment, Vasudeva completed his job and left him, therefore, Siddhartha takes up the position that Vasudeva left vacant. This also illustrates that life is a cycle as Siddhartha becomes Vasudeva’s equal and also becomes a spiritual teacher for others. The chapter of ‘Om’ clearly illustrates that life is a cycle and that the present encompasses all experiences before it.
Jessica White: I love your references to symbols in the book, along with the relation of the religions Buddhism and Hinduism. All of your examples are perfect for the point you are making towards the continuous circle, such as the river or his son. I noticed the circle while reading the book, but you found more examples then I did reading it the first time around. I like your point with Vasudeva saying Siddhartha really takes his place in Vasudeva’s old position. You made some very good reinforcing points towards how life is a circle. -Jess
Mallory Schiebel: Great analysis Keri! Another example from the text that would also support your idea that the "present encompasses all experiences before it" is the Om. The Om represents rebirth and clarity for Siddhartha. Every time he becomes unsure or unaware of where his life is taking him, the Om appears and gives Siddhartha insight. The novel started with Siddhartha speaking the Om, and ends with him finding peace from it. The Om has led him to enlightenment, and all his experiences with and without the Om have led him to where he is today. However, with that being said, I still think the symbolism you found from the river and Vasudeva was great! It gave me more insight on how important this chapter was to the book and Siddhartha. Great job!
In Om, we really see Siddhartha’s life come full circle. He had to give up his son, and in doing that, he realizes the pain and sorrow he cost his father. However, I believe that Siddhartha losing the one thing he loved more than anything was the key piece in him achieving enlightenment. Siddhartha realizes that he is not much different than anybody else. He loves, he suffers, he feels. He is no higher than anyone else in the world. In this chapter, we also see the importance of the Om in Siddhartha’s life (hence the title of the chapter). The Om always appears when Siddhartha is suffering and in doubt, and it always soothes and calms him. I think that this is because the Om has been the only thing constant in Siddhartha’s life. Through all the ups and downs, and the changes he has gone through, the Om always appears and leads him to self clarity. He started his journey with the Om, and ended his journey with the Om. “At this moment, Siddhartha ceased to struggle with fate, ceased to suffer. On his face bloomed the cheerfulness of wisdom that is no longer opposed by will, that knows perfection, that is in harmony with the river of what is, with the current of life, full of compassion, full of empathetic joy, surrendered to the flow, part of the unity.” This line from the chapter really stood out to me. Siddhartha had finally learned how to listen, and he had finally learned how to follow his heart, and to not overthink every decision he makes. The writing starts to feel poetic, and joyous, and that reflects how Siddhartha is feeling. The word choice Herman Hesse used really helps connect you to Siddhartha, and you feel the same emotion, happiness, and peace Siddhartha does when you read his words.
I agree with your point about how Siddhartha comes full circle; he worshipped the Om in his childhood and he has come back to it in the last few chapters. The Om seems to give Siddhartha the push he needs to continue forward in life, which could contribute to a theme. I think the Om’s presence leads us towards a theme about how everybody needs a core belief to allow them to continue on when life becomes cruel.
Throughout the novel, Siddhartha’s disdain for others (“child people,” as he likes to call them) was as evident as his ego. But in the closing chapters, it is apparent that Siddhartha perceives sympathy for these “child people” in his path to enlightenment, as his experiences throughout the novel have taught him more than mere words would be able to. After losing his son, he experiences the pain of a love-blind parent; after his stint in his obsession with materialism, he learned the qualms regarding such fixations; and after reliving such experiences in his memory and finally being able to sympathize with people in similar situations as his, he is finally able to achieve enlightenment. As the story closes with Siddhartha’s knowledge spreading to Govinda, Hesse indicates Siddhartha’s irrefutable love and peace for the world and the success of his journey to reach enlightenment.
Jessica White
ReplyDeletePeriod 5 Group 3
After reading both passages and proceeding to analyze the word choice, I noticed subtle differences making an overarching contrast between the two translations. In the first passage, I feel like the writing is more choppy, and has less of a flow than the second translation. Both passages contain several instances of repetition. The constant repetition through both passages makes me wonder as a reader if this was intentional by the author, or if there was something such as “lack of a better word” in english. Both translations never used different wording, using the same word. These are instances of parallel structure when comparing the two passages, but they are not when comparing the sentences within the same passage. In the first translation, they say “when the wise men talked.” versus in the second passage, saying “The conversation of the sages.” This difference stood out to me the most. These passages each give a different flow with small differences like this word choice. It gave more description than the previous passage. Overall, both passages do not stray from the overall message the author is trying to produce, but with translation, meanings and words are always at a risk for loss. - Jess
Mallory Schiebel
ReplyDeleteAlthough these passages are merely identical, the translator’s representation of the passages are very different. I personally believe the language used in the second passage is simpler and more powerful than the language used in passage one.
The use of passive voice is quite relevant in the first translation of the passage. It’s even in the title of the chapter- “The Son of the Brahmin.” The use of passive voice made the reading more wordy, and the sentences more lengthy than they needed to be.
The slight difference in some of the descriptive words used also made the second passage more powerful. For example, Siddhartha’s forehead went from being “surrounded by the glow of the clear-thinking spirit” to being “enveloped in the luster of his clear-thinking mind.” The terminology used in the second passage added a more vivid and powerful description than the terminology in the first passage. The slight difference in word choice makes the second translation more elegant and smooth than the other.
Another thing that I found interesting was the fact that in the first passage, the translator used the word “the” instead of the word “his” when describing things that belonged to Siddhartha. I was confused in the first passage because I didn’t know if the things being described were personal to the subject, Siddhartha, or if it was relevant to something else. This makes me wonder what Herman Hesse was actually trying to say, and whether or not it got lost in translation.
A similarity between the two passages was that they were both quite wordy. Sentences were long, and the same word was being used multiple times in the same sentence. This took away from the flow and elegance of the passage in general. This also sparks the thought of whether or not Herman Hesse meant for the writing to come across that way, or not.
I also noticed the wordy sentences present in both passages. To me, the presence of those sentences felt almost trance-like with their repetition and anaphora. It definitely creates an uncomfortable feeling of boredom. In fact, the author could be using the constant repetition to exhibit the boredom Siddhartha felt near the beginning of his life. After all, we know that he left precisely because he felt bored of his ordinary life as the son of an important man. You make a good point about how the different word choice in both passages affects how they’re read, too.
DeleteAjay Patel
ReplyDeleteBoth passages are translated in extremely similar form. Any reader would clearly acquire the same message by reading any of the two passages. Despite the extreme similarity, there are differences within the passages.
The most prominent difference in the text is the passive language used in the the first passage. The passage language was prominent from the beginning as the title was phrased on passive language. On line 2, more passive language is expressed as the statement “in the shade of the fig tree where Siddhartha grew up” is mixed into a long compound sentence. The passive language is combined with poetic diction as the translator was attempting to explain the first verses of the book in a poetic fashion.
This poetic fashion is mirrored in passage two as well. However, the poetic diction and flow is much smoother and satisfying as there is less passive language. This also explains the reason why passage two is shorter than passage one by several sentences. The lack of passive language allows for a more poetic paragraph in passage two overall. This difference in clarity and flow is supported by the differences in sentence structure. Passage one describes the mango groove as: “In the mango grove, shade poured into his black eyes”. In passage two, the text is more clear and has a better flow; “”Shade flowed into his black eyes in the mango grove”. These kinds of differences in text are the most prominent and divide the two passages in terms of passive language and the overall flow.
It's hard to miss the long and comma filled sentences that infested both passages. The translators used compound sentences to once again provide increased poetic flow to the text. Overall, both passages attract the reader with vivid word choice and poetic flow, and add a great start to a amazing novel.
I like the use of direct textual evidence!
ReplyDeleteOne of the most intriguing differences that I came across while reading both passages, was the uses of Brahman and Brahmin. While both are similar in pronunciation and spelling, they both portray different ideas and people, but unlike passage 2, passage 1 gives a stronger and more in depth meaning with its phrasing of words. Brahman refers to the idea of God that is applicable to all objects which have the quality of greatness and truth, hinting that the first paragraph is referring to Siddhartha as the Son of God. Brahmin, on the other hand, defines someone of the priest caste, being the highest in the Hindu society. Siddhartha, having a Brahmin as a father, he is expected to become a religious leader like his father and follow in his footsteps, when what he would rather do is find himself and not become a copy of someone else. This gives a foreshadowing effect through the book as he follows his own path of enlightenment, but always when Govinda and Siddhartha are reunited, Govinda being able to see God in Siddhartha. The use of the Brahman in this context shows that Siddhartha was able to find a source of peace and content with life inside himself. Both passages, their differences and similarities, add imagery in two different meanings, but still give their own ideas which builds onto the importance of Siddhartha’s journey to enlightenment.
ReplyDeleteKeri Zhou
ReplyDeleteComparing both passages, they had subtle differences while still getting the background of Siddhartha across to the reader, however, these differences achieve different impacts towards the reader. In the first sentence of both passages, we are introduce to how Siddhartha grew up and in these sentences we experience the symbolism of the sun and shade as stated, “In the shade of the house, in the sunshine of the riverbank near the boats, in the shade of the Sal-wood forest, in the shade of the fig tree is where Siddhartha grew up.” The sun of the riverbank represents how later on in the story, Siddhartha finds enlightenment when he listens intently to the river. Furthermore, the shade represents all objects that stopped Siddhartha from reaching his goal of enlightenment, such as the dangers of the Sal-wood forest and the confinement of his house.
By contrasting the two passages I noticed that the second passage minimized passive voice, used more concise language, and in my opinion had a much more meaningful and powerful impact on the reader. Furthermore, the second passage utilizes visual imagery in a much more effective manner by changing and arranging few words, for example, in the first passage the translator states, “practicing debate with Govinda” compared to the second passage as it states, “practicing a verbal battle with Govinda.” A debate has connotations with political aspects and simple disagreements, however, a verbal battle seems more of a fierce clashing of ideas and beliefs and is much more visually appealing than a debate. Another example that shows that the second passage more effectively utilizes visual imagery is seen in the 5th sentence, in the first passage it states “the forehead surrounded by the glow of the clear-thinking spirit,” and in the second passage it states “his forehead enveloped in the luster of his clear-thinking mind.” By changing the word surrounded to enveloped and glow to luster, we can fully visualize that the forehead was not just simply glowing from Siddhartha’s clear-thinking spirit, but completely consumed by the luster and brilliance of his clear thinking mind, which is much more visually apparent. Both passages convey the same story, but the slight differences produce different impacts.
In the first translation of the passage, the passive voice provides a clunkier reading experience than the second translation, which synthesizes the sentence structures in a manner that is much clearer to English speakers than the first translation. Alongside the utilization of the passive voice, there are also a few diction discrepancies in sentences that were clearly intended to be written with parallel structure, such as the shift in “son of the Brahman… son of a Brahman.” This leads me to believe that the first translator did not account for such language discrepancies to accommodate for the translation to the English language. For example, in Spanish, the translation for “my hands” is “las manos” (“the hands”). Likewise, the literal translation for the title is more likely to be “The Son of the Brahman” instead of “The Brahmin’s Son,” as most languages do not use apostrophes to imply possession. Because the first passage appears more literal, Hesse’s intended vocabulary is likely more accurate in the first translation than the second, but the diction in the second passage strengthens the reading otherwise. In the first translation, the passive voice weakens the effect of Hesse’s accurate vocabulary in such phrases as “the forehead surrounded by the glow of the clear-thinking spirit” compared to the much stronger (as it lacks passive voice) “his forehead enveloped in the luster of his clear-thinking mind.” While the second translation is clearer, it is more likely that Hesse intended to depict Siddhartha’s “spirit” as opposed to his “mind”, which carries completely different connotations despite the less clear presentation. So while the effect of the first translation is weaker than that of the second, it appears that the vocabulary is more representative of Hesse’s intentions.
ReplyDelete^^^ Charles Nasser
DeleteLouis Zhang
ReplyDeleteThe first passage, The Son of the Brahman, subtly emphasizes Siddhartha’s holiness by associating him with words with holy connotations such as “the glow of the clear-thinking spirit” (sentence 5). We often associate spirit with religion (the Holy Spirit in Christianity), so this makes Siddhartha seem a little holy. This passage also implements the passive voice to emphasize what effect Siddhartha’s early life had on him. For instance, sentence one uses the passive voice in “in the shade of the fig tree is where Siddhartha grew up”. Sentence five also has an example: “the forehead surrounded by the glow of the clear-thinking spirit”. This passive voice places less emphasis on Siddhartha’s own actions and more on how the world around him shaped him. However, in the second passage, the opposite case is true. Less of the passive voice is used, which creates more emphasis on what actions Siddhartha took to shape himself. For example, the passage discusses how “Siddhartha had long been taking part in the conversations of the sages…” and doing a lot of thinking since an early age. By using an active voice for this passage, more of an emphasis is instead placed upon Siddhartha’s talent as a thinker. Overall, both passages consist of similar content with subtle differences in the way sentences are stated that contribute to different tones. Passage one contains a more religious tone, while passage two contains a more intelligent one.
Alex Prestwich
ReplyDeleteThe two passages, although vastly similar, display small differences in the diction and syntax of the text which subtly change the tone of the passages. For example in The Son of the Brahman it says “...in the shade of the fig tree is where Siddhartha grew up.” In comparison The Brahmin’s Son reads, “...in the shade of the fig tree, Siddhartha grew up.” Although these are small, stylistic changes, it affects how the passage reads, almost as if the syntax in the second passage was altered to make it more accessible to English readers. Additionally, passive voice is used more in the first passage which makes it a more interpretive read for the reader whereas the second passage is much clearer and can impact the reader in a much stronger manner. This clarity shines through in the visual imagery such as, “the forehead surrounded by the glow of a clear thinking spirit,” in the first passage which was also translated as, “his forehead enveloped in the luster of his clear-thinking mind.” Through the word selection the visual imagery is clearer in the second passage as Siddhartha’s forehead was not actually glowing, but Siddhartha’s mind had immense clarity. There are many other instances where words were translated similarly but with small differences such as, “speaking it silently,” compared to, “soundlessly speak,” and “during the teachings of his father, the scholar,” compared to “when his father, the scholar, taught him.” It is possible that this is merely a product of the translator trying to be as close to the original text as possible, which is indicative of a difference in philosophy between the translators of translating exact words or translating intended meaning.
Mtthew
ReplyDeleteAlthough there are a great deal similarities between the two paragraphs, but there are still a number of differences through syntax and the change of the tone. In the first paragraph, The Son Of The Brahman, the passive voice made the language way harder to read. With the more difficult language to read, a reader must pay way more attention to each and every sentences and details that hides within rather than skimming it through. It also has a much more spiritual tone through diction. For example, in the first paragraph, “In the mango grove, sade poured into his black eyes…” versus in the second paragraph, “Shade flowed into his black eyes in the mango grove…” The second paragraph uses more of a simple sentence structure to read more fluently, and the first paragraph use the inverted word orders to perpetuate the sentence. I prefer the first paragraph more since in this case the inverted sentence structure makes it easier to understand.
Jessica White
ReplyDeletePeriod 5 Group 3
In chapters three and four we start by reading of Siddhartha and Govinda looking for the location of the Exalted One. What stood out the most to me over every detail, is what was happening as these boys were asking where the Buddha is. The first sentence of chapter three held a large personal impact. “In the city of Savatthi, every child knew the name of the Exalted Buddha, and every house was prepared to extend charity to Gautama’s disciples, to fill the bowls of the silent petitioners.” When I first read the book, I had no idea what this sentence meant. In fact, I didn’t get the scenario that was being painted at all. When reading this line for the second time, I thought deeper about it. Why are these people giving these beggars so much food? Is there a deeper meaning? Then I remembered, this is a tradition for the Buddhist religion. Being from a Buddhist country, I thought back to when I fed monks in Luang Prabang, a city in north central Laos, my home country in Asia. Forgetting about this tradition and not noticing the familiar scenario, made me feel bad for not noticing my own culture. But because I have experienced the giving of alms at sunrise, I also understand the townspeople’s perspective of the Exalted one giving me a deeper look at the identity of this being. I understand the motives of the people and why they show so much courtesy. This ritual moves into a deeper spiritual level, not just a physical aid. -Jess
I really loved how you were able to share your analysis not just from the view of a student, but from the view of someone who was able to live a life that shared the belief of Buddhism firsthand. I’ve noticed, in myself as well, that when books are able to give the reader something to connect with, such as religion, you are able to relate to the book in a way that you had never thought of previously. I remember when first reading the book The Perks of Being a Wallflower, I wasn’t fully able to understand what was being put in front of me until reading through it again, this time with more curiosity. Overtime, more books, movies, experiences, and other texts have pulled me in more to try to come and understand the true meaning of each and every story.
DeleteSomething that really stood out to me in chapters three and four was the amount of impatience that was portrayed off of Siddhartha as he was seeking enlightenment from the Samanas. The Samanas believe that you can really eliminate yourself by denying your senses. Govinda was able to succeed and give himself to this technique which Siddhartha did not, becoming frustrated with the teachings of the Samanas and deciding to not continue with them. This is then reflected onto chapter three during the teachings of Gotama, that this man can teach of enlightenment but attaining Nirvana doesn’t help teach other to reach it. I believe that Siddhartha has become corrupted by the idea of obtaining enlightenment, that he has lost the true direction of where he wants to go and has lost his own knowledge of Buddhism by doing so. He has eventually lost the true purpose of his actions and himself as a whole. Siddhartha has always been viewed as a sort of prodigy within his community and he has transformed into someone with a superior attitude and thinks of himself as his own leader, talking down to other characters even his lifelong friend Govinda, rejecting the teachings of all who have tried to influence him. He has become a slave to knowledge and later to earthly possessions, and it takes him off of the path of finding his Self, which makes him unsuccessful and harmful to his body and other. This makes me think about how our everyday life could just be as similar as the life that Siddhartha was living; we all have a goal that we want to achieve in life, whether it be to be a successful business person, attend a 4-year college, or anything else, but along the path to achieving that, there will always a moment in the journey that you feel that you are falling off the path or that you just can’t make it to your goal anymore. But after diving into more depth about what Siddhartha’s journey really meant to him, it made me understand that not everything is based on a spiritual level of need or want, but a physical want as well.
ReplyDeleteJessica White:
DeleteI concur with your view on Siddartha in how he has become “frustrated” and “corrupted”. Throughout these chapters, he seems very impatient and rushed. Not only is your opinion on a solid reason, but I love how you made the connection to everyday life, making this very relatable for all of us. Made me think of moments in my life where I may have done the same thing as Siddhartha. Your inclusion of other characters like Govinda really helps support and show his straying from the path. When you mentioned that Siddhartha got frustrated and decided not to continue with the teachings, it also reminded me that he is new to the world and on the inside still a little boy. -Jess
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteWhat stood out to me the most in chapter 3 was the transition in sentence structures in sentences which described Gotama or the Buddha. Almost every single one of those sentences utilizes a subject-predicate structure. The basic nature of those sentences skillfully illustrates Gotama’s own simple personality and lifestyle. However, when Siddhartha engages in discussion with the Gotama, the sentences which involve Gotama begin with more complexity and use adverbs, descriptions or prepositions. These help reveal the deceptively intelligent thinking which lies beneath Gotama’s simple exterior. In addition, the Hesse often employs usage of interesting words such as “quietly” when describing Gotama. Although quiet usually means the absence of noise, it can also represent tranquility. Here is an example of the author using specific word choice to describe Gotama’s actions after one of Siddhartha’s long rants. “Quietly, Gotama had listened to him, unmoved.” “Quietly” accurately describes the manner in which Gotama silently and calmly listens to Siddhartha. However, “unmoved” possesses a less obvious meaning. It doesn’t just explain his state of motion, but also likens him to a boulder; emotionally unmoved and at one with his surroundings. Hesse’s use of words with hidden meanings aptly illustrates Siddhartha’s efforts to comprehend the hidden mysteries of human life as well as Gotama’s success in those endeavors.
ReplyDeleteGood thinking! I also noticed how easy it was to read and understand chapter 3, when describing Gotama. The description of the Buddha was so peaceful and elegant, and really gave you a sense of what the Buddha would be like in person. We get a deeper understanding of how intelligent and how much Siddhartha thinks and analyzes things in this chapter.
Delete-Mallory Schiebel
Mallory Schiebel
ReplyDeleteSomething I found interesting from chapter three was that Siddhartha never gave his reasoning for not following Gotama to Govinda. When Govinda would ask Siddhartha questions about the next steps he was taking on his personal journey, Siddhartha wouldn’t answer, and would keep the focus of conversation on Govinda. This makes me wonder whether or not Siddhartha was confident in his decision to refrain from the teachings of the Buddha. Perhaps he was afraid that Govina would try to persuade him into becoming a disciple, or afraid that Gotama would refute and find flaws in his way of thinking. Also, it was pretty relevant that Siddhartha seemed to have his mind set on not making a decision. Another thing I found interesting about these chapters was how much Siddhartha analyzed and pondered the teachings of the Buddha. Many people seek refuge in the words of the Buddha-- they don’t search for a flaw in his teachings. However, Siddhartha did. I believe that Siddhartha was trying to find a way to validate his reasoning for not wanting to follow the Buddha. The book would brag about how perfect and amazing the Buddha was. It never once disproved of or hinted at any flaw in the Buddha. So then why did Siddhartha not want to join him? How could you pass up an opportunity to learn from the Exalted One? It is also hypocritical how Siddhartha confesses to the Buddha that he can’t learn from teachings, yet he then goes on to confess that Gotama “gave me Siddhartha, he gave me myself.” This led me to believe that Siddhartha enjoyed wandering, being indecisive and not knowing what he was going to do next. He wasn’t ready to devote his life to one thing, and that is why he tries so hard to find a flaw in every pathway he takes, no matter how perfect it may be for himself.
This is awesome! It almost seems like foreshadowing when Siddhartha gives Govinda the cold shoulder and doesn't share his thought with his him. Siddhartha would later leave Govinda and I think that Siddhartha's behavior towards Govinda is very much a build up towards him leaving and not worshipping Buddha. I agree when you say that Siddhartha is a wandering and indecisive and this definitely justifies his decision to leave Govinda and pursuit his own desires.
Delete- Ajay Patel
Ajay Patel
ReplyDeleteThe most vital aspect of chapter three that stood out to me was when Siddhartha left Govinda. In order to achieve enlightenment, Siddhartha found himself having to leave his best friend, Govinda. Though Govinda had found enlightenment, SIddhartha had yet to achieve his goal. Hesse had executed the separation of Siddhartha and Govinda perfectly, displaying emotion in the text.
When Siddhartha told Govinda of his plans to leave, an emotional conversation took place. “Siddhartha laid his hand on Govinda’s shoulder. “You did not listen to my words of aspiration for you and my blessing. I will repeat it. May you follow this path to the end. May you attain Liberation” (25 Hesse). Here, Siddhartha explains his wishes for Govinda to reach liberation. However, it’s a small part of a large event in the book, when Siddhartha leaves Govinda. “In this moment, Govinda realized that his friend had left him, and he began to cry” (25 Hesse). Unlike earlier in the book, the sentences shortened to symbolise the short but rich friendship of Siddhartha and Govinda.
I found that when Siddhartha left Govinda, he had became more impatient and had increased his craving for enlightenment. Furthermore, I believe that the plot really began to move quickly and became more intriguing when Siddhartha took on his journey towards enlightenment alone.
I really enjoyed your analysis of the text and I also agree with how Hesse displayed emotion in illustrating the the separation of Siddhartha and Govinda. I also felt the tension and the emotions of the broken relationship while reading that part of the chapter. The idea of how the shortening of the sentence symbolized the short but rich friendship that Govinda and Siddhartha had is a wonderful interpretation of it and I completely agree with it. It is sad to see this friendship end, but it is for Siddhartha’s quest for enlightenment and his own pursuit to achieve what he wants.
Delete-Keri Zhou
Keri Zhou
ReplyDeleteAfter reading chapter 3 and 4, I believe that these chapters are one of the most powerful and meaningful chapters in the novel as they mark the true beginning of Siddhartha’s quest to find enlightenment. Chapter 3 begins with Siddhartha and Govinda witnessing Gotama and his teachings. What I found interesting about this part was how Siddhartha did not feel like he could learn anything from the Buddha, therefore he focused on closely analyzing Gotama’s behavior. By Siddhartha’s descriptions, the reader knows that Gotama is not an ordinary individual as it states,“it seemed to Siddharta as if every joint of every finger of this had was a teacher who spoke, breathed of, exhaled the fragrance of, and shone forth with truth.” By showing that Gotama’s entire body radiated truth, it symbolized that Gotama has reached enlightenment, but Siddhartha still refuses to follow his teachings because he believes that no one could guide him to enlightenment and that wisdom is learned through experiences and cannot be learned from words. In my personal opinion, Siddhartha’s ideas of achieving wisdom is a mentality that I have as well, I cannot just learn from words I need to experience things to achieve further knowledge. His mentality leads me to believe that he is a wanderer that persists to experience new things to find himself and His mentality also leads me to believe that this might a reason to why Siddhartha left Govinda behind to Gotama. Siddhartha must find his own self and seek enlightenment alone without distractions and with Govinda with him it would manifest another obstacle on his journey, therefore, Siddhartha decides to travel on his own. These chapters sent Siddhartha on the path to find enlightenment and are why it’s in an integral part of the novel.
Alex Prestwich
DeleteI definitely agree on your point that Chapter three and four are pivotal moments in the book, especially since Govinda and Siddhartha part ways. Siddhartha tried to learn from Gotama through his oral teachings and additionally through one on one questioning. However, as he saw the truth in the teachings, what Siddhartha focused on was a flaw. Even Gotama said, “...be warned about the thicket of opinions and the fight over words.” Siddhartha believed himself that the key to enlightenment was experience, and I do not believe he is wrong. However, I think that additionally, it was his ego that caused him to reject following Gautama. As he said in chapter four about his ego, “But I could not overcome it, I could only deceive it, could only flee from it, only hide from it.” Later, he embraced his ego and joined the world which was part of his journey in which he was able to learn from experience and be enlightened, so he did fulfill his own personal mission.
Alex Prestwich
ReplyDeleteThe most thought provoking line in chapter three and four of Siddhartha was the end of Siddhartha’s conversation with Gautama. Gautama said, “You are clever, O samana, ... You know how to speak cleverly, my friend. Beware of too much cleverness.” Siddhartha’s whole goal in life was to be rid of his own ego, but his own proficiency in such spiritual matters served to fuel his ego. It was only until he met Gautama, the Enlightened One, that he came to this realization. Throughout chapter four, Siddhartha is pondering his own life up to this point and this thinking was only accentuated by the long and flowy sentences that Herman Hesse opted to use to portray this deep pondering. One prime example of this is, “He realized that one thing had left him like the old skin that leaves the serpent, that one thing that was no longer within him, a thing that had accompanied him throughout his youth and had belonged to him: the wish to have teachers and hear teachings.” This single sentence contains forty-seven words and is almost it’s own paragraph. These long run-on sentences are common in this chapter, a good representation of the way the human mind wanders gradually to conclusions.
You have made an excellent point there that Siddhartha needs to lose his ego. However, I would like to argue that losing too much ego can also be a bad thing. Ego by definition means self-importance. Later in the book we see that Siddhartha tried to starve himself and almost died from it, which is an ego of almost nothing. I think what Gautama actually mean when he said that “Beware of too much cleverness.” is that treat everyone and even himself with respect and do not let anyone else’s importance get above another’s. So essentially the golden rule, love your neighbor as yourself.
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DeleteOne of the most fascinating things I found in chapter 3 and 4 was the word “awakening”. It has been repeated throughout the chapter and even in the title. It represents how Siddhartha wakes up from his luxurious childhood and stepping into a life of wonder and peace. Where he lets go of his old self and most importantly, Govinda. Govinda is siddhartha’s best childhood friend, in order for him to go on his search for enlightenment. “Siddhartha opened his eyes and looked around him, a mile filled his face, and a deep sensation of awakening from long dreams streamed through him even into his toes.” this is a literal case of awakening from the past to the future however, in this case, he foresaw and learned all of his mistakes that he has made. As he advances through his searchings, he then gets temped and wants to go back to his old life. A literal sense would be his woke up from his nap and not too long later he wants to sleep again but he has not completed his task yet. “Siddhartha, too, felt longing, felt the root of his sex moving.... He hesitated a moment,...the voice said no.” In order for Siddhartha to reach his searching of enlightenment, he must be fully “awake”, even when temptation comes by, he must learn to ignore it. If he was living his old life, he would have yes in no time. Some people might call that an “awakening”, others might say it is just maturity.
ReplyDeleteI agree with your point and how awakening is like maturity in the sense but I also think Hesse used this word in particular because Siddhartha isn't just waking up from following others and living this life, he's also opening his eyes to life. He's beginning to finally understand that the power he's trying to achieve is something unteachable because enlightenment is something you find within yourself. Hesse writes at the beginning of chapter 4, " The Yogaveda will teach me no longer, nor the Atharvaveda, nor the ascetics, nor any other teaching. I will learn from myself, be my own student. I will learn about myself, about the mystery of Siddhartha". So yes he's finding reality, but he's also finding himself through his "awakening".
DeleteIn chapters 3 and 4 I noticed the author used a lot of imagery and how subtle Hesse was with the amount of language he used when describing the scenery. Just in chapter 3 alone, int he first few pages, I could visualize everything in my head as I read along. For example, towards the beginning of chapter 3 Govinda and Siddhartha go the Jeta Grove and seek out the Exalted One, the author writes, "Along the paths of the magnificent grove, yellow-robed monks were moving... The shady gardens gave the impression of a city full of people, swarming like bees. The majority of monks were leaving with their alms bowls to gather food in the city for the midday meal, the only meal of the day," (Siddhartha, Translated by Sherab Chodzin Kohn). I feel as if I'm walking alongside Siddhartha myself when I read that passage. Hesse uses great word choice to make his writing interesting and inviting for the audience to read.
ReplyDeleteMallory Schiebel
ReplyDeleteSomething I found interesting from chapter 5 was the dream that Siddhartha had about Govinda. I think his dream symbolizes the change he is currently undergoing. “The milk from this breast tasted sweet and strong. It tasted of woman and man, of sun and forest, of beast and flower, of every fruit, of every desire. It made one drunk and unaware.” This whole passage is foreshadowing of what is to come later in the chapter, and the next few chapters, as well. Siddhartha gives into temptation and desire once he meets Kamala. Also, the way Hermann Hesse uses such contrasting words to describe the taste of the breast milk, represents the 180 degree turn his life is taking. He goes from being a shramana, people who believe in a low maintenance, spiritual life, to a businessman, who owns expensive material items and partakes in an intimate relationship with Kamala. Siddhartha is starting to explore a different side of the world, a side of physical love and interaction, and that is extremely different than the life he was just living. Ultimately, I believe that Siddhartha’s interactions and encounters with Kamaswami and Kamala shines light that people see the world from different perspectives, and you can learn different things from different people. Kamala has been just as good of a teacher as Gotama, they just teach and look through different lenses. This suggests that although Siddhartha believes he must learn through his own experiences, he is still learning through other people.
This is a great observation! I agree with your point in which the dream symbolizes the change Siddhartha is going thru. Adding on, I see the dream as adding a theme of regret to the plot. Siddhartha has affected many of his close people and family in wake of his journey. The dream possibly indicates his regrets that he may have towards leaving Govinda.
Delete- Ajay Patel
Ajay Patel
ReplyDeleteIn chapter four and five, Siddhartha undergoes a tremendous transformation. After he left Govinda, SIddhartha had embarked towards a city and really interacted and met people for the first time in the plot. In the beginning of chapter four, Siddhartha encounters a great natural scape. Herman Hesse described this scene with detailed imagery, which I believe was symbolism for Siddhartha's new step in his journey towards enlightenment. “He saw the sun rise over the wooded hills and go down over the distant palm-lined shore. At night he saw the stars arrayed across the sky and the crescent moon floating like a boat in the blue. He saw trees, stars, animals, clouds, rainbows, rocks, herbs, flowers, streams, and rivers dew glittering on the brush in the morning, distant lofty peaks blue and pale” (Hesse 37). I see this imagery, particularly the part in which “the sun rose over the wooded hills” symbolize new hope for SIddhartha’s journey. Before, Siddhartha became impatient and saddened when he failed to reach enlightenment with Govinda, but now he felt a renewal of hope. Not only does this imagery add greatly to the plot and symbolism of the story, but it allows the reader to picture and imagine the scene in where SIddhartha is present. Adding on, the description of the natural scape and it’s features adds a peaceful tone to Hesse’s text. This tone lines with one of the plots key factors; meditation and enlightenment, to be peaceful and one with nature. Overall, I really enjoyed the amazing imagery Hesse added in chapters four and five.
Great insight on the chapter! I also noticed this imagery that Hesse included. I agree with your statement of how the imagery symbolizes a new step in Siddhartha’s journey, I believe that he is taking a step into the sensory world and departing from his past spiritual world and that is why he describes what he sees in immense detail. Moreover, the imagery, as you described, was wonderfully descriptive and as a reader, I could vividly picture the scene.
Delete-Keri Zhou
Correction: the chapters related to this passage are 5 and 6 not chapter four. Pardon the mistake.
Delete- Ajay Patel
Jessica White
ReplyDeletePeriod 5 Group 3
While reading chapter 5, the first thing the author has you read is a long, wordy paragraph of Siddhartha simply describing what he sees around him. While reading this passage, I could almost feel Siddhartha's contentment through the words. It is made note that prior to this stage in Siddhartha’s life, all of these things in nature that he is enjoying was invisible to him. “This all, all this, thousandfold and particolored, had always been there, the sun and moon had always shone, always the rivers had rushed and the bees buzzed, but that was in former times when, for Siddhartha, all this had been nothing but a transient and illusory veil before his eyes, to be regarded with distrust, destined to be pierced by thought and utterly destroyed, for it was not essence- essence lay beyond the visible.” When reading the first paragraph of this chapter, I see he is observing how he is seeing things in a new light. This is an important moment, showing how when there is a slight change of character, there is a mental effect to a higher degree, such as it is so powerful it changes how you view things physically. I feel like authors often do this to their characters when they fall in love, or are sad. “ their hearts showed the world in a rosy color” or “the world had never looked so gray”. Hermann Hesse, pulls all of Siddhartha’s observations together, saying that is almost childlike in the sense of how he observes his surroundings which I also found significant. -Jess
I agree with what you said about how Hesse tends to pull in all of Siddhartha’s observations and display them in a more childlike manner. It has often come across to the reader that Siddhartha is seen as the teacher and the adult, rather than the student and the child, just as you explained in your post that he is seeing, feeling, and being tried as if for the first time. By giving Siddhartha a more childlike, outward attitude, it becomes more clear to understand of what Hesse is trying to get across to his audience: when one becomes so determined that it takes you over, part of yourself disappears and it feels that you are having to start all over from birth.
Delete
ReplyDeleteThese chapters heavily intrigued me because of the many symbols that were introduced. The first symbol is the river and in the novel, Siddhartha travels across the river with the help of the ferryman. Moreover, Siddhartha could not pay the ferryman for his deeds, but the ferryman does not mind as he states that he learned from the river: “everything comes again.” This quote heavily foreshadows the return of Siddhartha and symbolizes the cycle of life as everyone experiences an endless cycle of rebirth, existence and death. Everyone is a subject to recurrence. Furthermore, the river represents the boundary between the sensory world and the spiritual world, therefore, by having Siddhartha cross the river it represents how he is transforming his ideals. In the past, Siddhartha denied his senses as he believed them to be the source of his suffering, however, as seen in the first part of the chapter 5, we see that he has become increasingly aware of his senses and embraced the world as quoted “He saw trees, stars, animals, clouds, rainbows.All of these thousands of colorful things had always been there.” Further representing his separation from the spiritual world is the character of Kamala. As Siddhartha meets Kamala, he is quickly amazed by her beauty and falls in love with her, which then leads Siddhartha to become fully immersed in the sensory world. As we learned in class, in Hinduism there are the goals of human existence or Purusharthas, one of them is known as ‘Kama’(Also the root word for Kamala), meaning love and desire, thus, Kamala will awaken Siddhartha’s lost senses of love and will cause him to fully experience his senses. The symbols of Kamala and the River from these chapters were crucial to Siddhartha’s journey for enlightenment.
Great analysis! The use of symbolism through the river really brought out the growth of Siddhartha. Like all rivers, he starts out small from a creek, and as he gets closer to his end journey for enlightenment, the river gets wider and wider. Gathering all the water and leaving the rocks and dirts behind. In a way, Siddhartha is like a river. A river’s end goal is to go into the ocean, get evaporated up and eventually rains down every where. Siddhartha is not much different. He goes on a journey for enlightenment, gathers wisdom and knowledge, becomes enlightened and rains down an enormous amount of influence on a lot of people.
DeleteLately, it seems that there are two timelines that are overlapping in Siddhartha’s story - one, his natural life, starting as the son of the Brahmin, and the other being the journey of his enlightenment, which needed a birth of its own - but it’s only now that he suggests that the physical world is going to be clear in the next stage of his journey. Siddhartha comes to realize that the qualities that he admired in Gautama are of the self, and not words. “I can think. I can wait. I can fast ” (Pg. 64). This understanding shows us that he is considering himself with the same importance, and that the only way to climb to spiritual heights is to listen to your own voice, not ignoring the demands of the self. Although Siddhartha is now following his own path, he is still searching for guidance and making changes, even if his own self is being tried. For the first time, his own strength and skills is equaled by the strength of nature and the power of Kamala’s body and beauty, and for the first time, one doesn’t look up to Siddhartha but looks downward, as if he is the child. Sometimes it takes seeing the virtues of others for Siddhartha to see them in himself again, just as the Buddha inspired him to follow his own path to enlightenment.
ReplyDeleteJessica White: I find what you pointed out very interesting. I never saw that or had thought about it in this perspective before. I like the quote you are using as an example, I feel like this sentence really does say a lot about his path and overall being. I agree with your take on Siddhartha's path, your comparisons to Siddhartha's strength, nature, the power of beauty, all of these components made for one one solid point. -Jess
DeleteIn chapter 5, the author’s introduction of the natural world as well as Siddhartha’s newfound appreciation for this world foreshadows how Siddhartha will soon deeply immerse himself in the daily affairs of normal people. Hesse’s line “But now, his liberated eyes stayed on this side…” illustrates that Siddhartha’s eyes are free from the “deception” of his previous experiences as a pure thinker (which is ironic, given that people such as the ascetics and the monks are supposed to be the truth-seekers) which led him into a false sense of superiority over the commoners. Hesse also employs an abundance of passive voice in the passage describing Siddhartha’s sensual appreciation of the natural world, which could symbolize a core belief of Existentialism by highlighting Siddhartha’s irrelevance to the world; the world doesn’t care about you and you are alone in a hostile universe. We also see this feeling of irrelevance later in chapter 5, where Siddhartha easily dismisses the issues of his lack of traits valuable to normal society: fine clothing, wealth, social standing, etc.
ReplyDeleteAlex Prestwich
DeleteI definitely agree with your analysis the author definitely uses irony in these chapters to accentuate Siddhartha’s sudden transformation. Siddhartha definitely used his status as a Samana to look down on the other people of the world. It is interesting to see how even though he joins the ranks of commoners and does the same stuff they do, he always sees himself as different. As it says, “Yet he still felt different from the others and superior to them; he always watched them with a touch of scoffing, with a touch of scorn…” This is part of his ego that he never really overpowered, even though he spent his whole life trying to do so.
Alex Prestwich
ReplyDeleteChapters five and six are all about transformation with all from Siddhartha’s view on the world to his status in society changing. A quote on the first page of the chapter five, “But now his liberated eyes remained on this side, he saw and acknowledged visibility, he sought his home in this world, did not seek reality, did not aim at any beyond.” Siddhartha overcame his disgust at the world and saw beauty in everything around him, taking long strides away from the spiritual world and into the physical world. When Siddhartha meets Kamala, his priorities change. He start to put materialistic ambitions and his own physical desire above spirituality. His slow transition was explained vividly by Herman Hesse, “Slowly, the way moisture creeps into the dying tree stump, slowly filling it and rotting it, worldliness and slothfulness had crept into Siddhartha’s soul; slowly they filled his soul, made it heavy, made it weary, lulled it to sleep.” Although, characteristic of the novel, Siddhartha’s own transition cycled around and he came to view the world with scorn.
Good analysis! We really see a big change in Siddhartha in these two chapters, and he is starting to value the real world more now that he has become a part of it. I thought that the quotes you picked out were super influential as well. Kamala has brought out a side of Siddhartha we haven't seen yet, and it is very odd to see Siddhartha not in touch with his spiritual side. You can really see how temptation and desire are obstacles everyone must face in religion and their inevitable meaning of "enlightenment."
Delete-Mallory Schiebel
One of the things I found fascinating about chapter 5 and 6 is that temptation came into Siddhartha’s life as soon as he becomes independent. Towards the end of chapter 5, “Siddartha, too, felt longing, felt the root of his sex moving; but since he had never yet touched a woman, he hesitated a moment, just as his hands were on the verge of grasping her. And in this moment….his innermost voice said NO.” This is one of his first of many temptations on his journey. Here we see that Siddhartha had really moved on from his past life, if it was him just a couple years earlier, he would have made a move for sure. In Chapter 6, when conversing with Kamaswami for the first time, Siddhartha explained that putting off hunger can let him focus on more important matters. There has to be a reason Hesse included two distinct instances of how fasting can be useful. They possibly show that Siddhartha did not leave the Samanas empty-handed; that he left them with a stronger mind and body than before. He now place his physical body just slightly over his spiritual since he found out the hard way that there must be balance.
ReplyDeleteCharles Nasser
ReplyDeleteIn chapter 5 of Siddhartha, his thoughts and dream revert back to his old friend Govinda. In his dream, it appears that he does indeed miss his friend, but it also foreshadows his imminent change and temptation (when he meets Kamala). However, contrary to what the dream appears to indicate regarding Siddhartha’s positive feelings for Govinda, the intentions behind his next thought are less blatant: “He is like Govinda… All are thankful, although they themselves have the right to be thanked. All are subservient, all want to be friends, like to obey, think little. People are children.” It is unclear whether he was indeed appreciative of people such as Govinda, who appeared to care for Siddhartha very much. He dictates many compliments regarding his friend, but the phrase “People are children” indicates that, while he may be grateful for his old friend, he may believe that he doesn’t truly deserve much respect, as children generally aren’t respected (ironic, as Siddhartha himself is still basically a child, especially considering that his transformed viewpoint is comparable to that of a child, as well). Such positive emotions are also contrary to his seemingly total lack of care for Govinda, which could be an indication of his transformation taking effect in not only his actions, but his thoughts as well. While it is unclear what Siddhartha feels about his “friend” Govinda, it is evident that he is at least a large influence in Siddhartha’s search for enlightenment.
Alex Prestwich
DeleteI agree that Siddhartha is definitely conflicted about the role that Siddhartha plays in his life. I believe that the appearance of Govinda in the dream was an indication to his subconscious gratitude towards Govinda of which he would never admit consciously. He definitely looks down on the people around him, especially since he is not close to anyone other than Kamala and Govinda. It is merely another manifestation of his large ego which is expected of someone with such a life as he did. It was only until he overcame this obstacle that he ever achieved enlightenment as he hoped.
Ajay Patel
ReplyDeleteSiddhartha made an amazing transformation in the wake of these chapters. The boy went from starving himself, and wandering almost naked through the wilderness, to becoming a well dressed and well fed worker in the city. It seems that Siddhartha has almost abandoned his journey. Siddhartha became much more social and started to interact with Kamaswami, his boss at work, and with others in the city. However, the text stated that “Siddhartha regarded all of this as a game” (52 Hesse). This leaves me to believe that Siddhartha does still have intentions to resume his journey to enlightenment. This would also explain the fact that Siddhartha did not drink wine or eat meat when given to him, in fact he only ate once a day. I found interest in the transformation of Siddhartha and it shocked me as a reader. Siddhartha also showed that he remained generous, as he went to a village and gave copper coins to children. Overall, Siddhartha's transformation is made to believe that he has abandoned his journey, but there are small factors that replenish the hopes for enlightenment. I also looked at the stages of Hinduism. One of the stages of Hinduism is to have a noble profession and to have success in life. Siddhartha appears to do this when he works as a merchant in the city. This yet again is another factor.
In the chapter By the River, Siddhartha has become so determined to find the path to enlightenment, and bred for holiness, that when he feels that part of himself disappear, it is as if life is over. It seems that he has come to a dead end on his path, and even the world around him feels pointless. After living the life of a merchant and been taken in by the games of business and wealth, Siddhartha has begun to feel himself separated from what he used to be, but the only word that is still able to show Siddhartha’s oneness and wisdom that he seeks is ‘om’. The simple word that has spoken to him since he was a young man and now as a seeker of knowledge, of all which now comes to him, just like the water, naturally and easily. His cycles of awakening and unease have become clear, such as the river, because it is always regenerating and always inspiring. Listening is a skill that we have not heard yet in the book of being that of importance. We all know about Siddhartha’s ability to wait and fast, and think, and now his abilities to gamble and make love, but listening presents itself now as the holiest, most honest of virtues. It connects the essence of the ferryman, Vasudeva, to that of the river, and promises Siddhartha that he too could be like nature. It has become clear that the power of nature is extreme, being able to wash away not just the material things of the towns, but also it’s anxiety and sin.
ReplyDeleteMallory Schiebel
DeleteI totally agree! We see nature play a huge part and take on a significant role in these chapters. Nature, especially the river, is Siddhartha's final teacher on his quest and search of enlightenment. I think that the self awareness we saw grow inside of Siddhartha in these two chapters was super refreshing. He learns that he was too greedy and drunk with the thought of finding enlightenment, that he was overthinking and over analyzing every decision he was making. Now, Siddhartha is finally setting on his own path, a path of passion and connection to nature, that will ultimately lead to his enlightenment.
Agreed. I think the river is symbolism for lots of things in SIddhartha. Specifically, I think it symbolizes the path to enlightenment and new hopes for Siddhartha's journey. I enjoyed the diction that Hesse used to describe this moment.
Delete- Ajay Patel
Mallory Schiebel
ReplyDeleteThe chapter “By the River” starts out with Siddhartha contemplating suicide. He thinks that because he has taken so many different paths to try and achieve enlightenment, there is nothing left for him besides death. He doesn’t believe that he will ever reach nirvana. I believe that a lot Siddhartha’s actions in the beginning of this chapter represent the same childlike behavior we have been noticing previously in the book. For example, when Siddhartha says “He saw the reflection of his face and spat at it.” Spitting at someone/thing you dislike is very childlike, and very immature as well. Also, kids are more likely to give up on something if it doesn’t go exactly as planned, and that is what Siddhartha wants to do through suicide. He is giving up on life, and this shows how disconnected he has become from his spiritual self. One of the first precepts for buddhists is to refrain from the destruction of life, yet Siddhartha is so eager and ready to put an end to his own. When the OM is revived from himself, it is then that we know Siddhartha’s path to enlightenment will be through spirituality and nature, not the physical and material world. Even though that part of his past was important and offered some wisdom, it does not define who he is and will become.
Jessica White: I feel the same way about his contemplation of suicide. He does come across in a fairly childlike manner. Along with agreeing with your point, I also feel as if it really shows a humanistic side of Siddhartha. The one with flaws and the overflowing feelings of questioning, regret, sadness, and emptiness. He relates to all of us at one point in our life where we don’t know where to go after a certain point. I feel as if all of us can make a very intimate connection with this part of the book, even in a small way. -Jess
DeleteJessica White
ReplyDeletePeriod 5 Group 3
In the chapter By the River, I noticed the wording that we discussed in class between Govinda and Siddhartha has changed. The way that they talk to each other upon meeting again is familiar, yet distant. “It gladdens me to see you again.” Siddhartha said this line to Govinda, and I noticed that the entire encounter sounded very formal. Through how they talk to each other, you can tell that they are establishing their different choices of path. Each of them both sound mature, yet show similar mannerisms as to when they were younger. Through their smiles, you can tell that all of the things Siddhartha said while leaving Govinda is in the past to Govinda, him carving his own path. “But pardon, o Siddhartha, you do not resemble a pilgrim.” This is another line this time from Govinda represents another example of the distance set between Siddhartha and Govinda. You can easily sense the maturity, distance, and familiarity through just their words without action. -Jess
I totally agree that there is definitely a change in the exchanging of words between Siddhartha and Govinda, not only the sense of maturity, distance, and familiarity, but it also feels like because they have not seen each other in such a long time, that there feels to be an awkward silence between the two, not knowing what to say to each other. Both Siddhartha and Govinda have not seen each other in a while, both choosing to follow a different path towards enlightenment. I also agree with what you had to say in Mallory’s post, that one of his flaws is his humanistic side, being able to start having feelings of questioning, regret, sadness, and emptiness. Siddhartha’s humanistic side comes out when he begins to see Govinda again and all his feelings that were buried deep down came out, his idea of not needing anyone in his life being opposed.
Delete“By the River,” is a very strong and meaningful chapter as it begins with Siddhartha believing that he cannot move further on and wants to commit suicide. The symbol of the river returns confirming what Vasudeva said in the previous chapter in which he believes that everything comes again. Furthermore, with the samanas he was able to abstain himself from physical desires and with Kamala in the city, he was able to fully experience his senses, therefore, coming back to the river symbolizes the middle way, which is between the two extremes of sensual indulgence and self-deprivation. By representing the middle way, the river foreshadows that Siddhartha will find enlightenment through the river. Another surprising factor of this chapter was the symbolic meaning of Om. At the climax of this novel, Siddhartha symbolically dies as stated “With his eyes closed, he slipped towards death.” He is resurrected by the sound of the word “Om,” everytime Om is heard by Siddhartha, it brings him back to a higher state of realization. When Siddhartha heard this word in this part of the chapter, he was transformed to a new version of himself as stated, “this Siddharth was nonetheless transformed, renewed and was well rested, joyful and curious.” Siddhartha has come to the realization that it was not possible to reach enlightenment by resisting all desires or through complete sensory indulgence,but he is determined to find a balance between the two achieve his goals.
ReplyDeleteGreat analysis, Keri! The significance of the Om certainly bears great importance on Siddhartha, both the novel and the character. An interesting note: consider the three main appearances of the Om in his life. He mentions it when meditating at the start, it awakens him in the middle, and his final resolution involves him hearing the Om. I'd go so far as to say the Om builds the pace of the novel, as present with Siddhartha as he would argue it is in all of us.
DeleteAlex Prestwich
ReplyDeleteSiddhartha is a man of extreme. He lived the first half of his life as a religious man, an ascetic, devoted to the ways of spirituality. The second portion was spent living in gluttony, indulging his senses until they were almost dulled. “As I child I learned that wealth and worldly pleasure are not good. I knew it for a long time, but I experienced it only now. And now I know it, know it not only with my memory, but also with my eyes, with my heart , with my stomach. Good for me that I know it.” In the chapter “By The River” Siddhartha has left his life with Kamala and found freedom by returning to the river. The physical and metaphoric boundary between these two lives was the river. Siddhartha spent his whole life on one side of the river pursuing his spiritual journey once this chapter was over he crossed over into his material life. However, due to his true nature as a spiritual man he returned to this border to live on it. This is representative of how enlightenment is found not solely in the spiritual world or in the physical world, but in fact is found on the border between both.
Good analysis! I also agree with your statement of how that Siddhartha returning to river represents how that enlightenment is not just found in the spiritual world or the physical world, but between them in a balanced state. Siddhartha lived in both extremes, as a Samand he lived by self-denial and with Kamala he lived with self-gratification, however, none of these methods proved successful. Therefore, by returning to the river, he has found the middle way that balances these two extremes to reach enlightenment.
Delete-Keri Zhou
Throughout "Siddhartha," readers witness the river playing three distinct roles in relation to Siddhartha: a baptism, a protection, and enlightenment. Here, we see the second role, the idea of protection, how the river itself keeps Siddhartha alive. Clearly, sitting on the banks of the river indicates its significance, and as Siddhartha contemplates his own death, one argues the presence of the river, metaphorically, keeps him safe. In the midst of his disarray, Siddhartha safely falls asleep alongside the banks of the river, despite many natural threats that could, normally, harm him. Time frame plays a role, as well; recall how long Siddhartha spent with Kamala. Given all of this time, the time for much of his development, the river stayed there, unwavering, forgiving of Siddhartha's mistakes. Clear connections exist, for the purposes of Christian theology, to God, despite this being a largely Buddhist novel, but another connection draws from the quality of a good friend. We expect friends to be loyal, protective, enlightening, and freeing-- all acts the river exemplifies. In this way, the river could be, perhaps, Siddhartha's greatest companion, one that continuously assists him in his life-long quest, filling a need and standing by him in times of woe.
ReplyDeleteLouis Zhang
ReplyDeleteThe most obvious symbolism from “By the River” consists of the passage in which Siddhartha nearly commits suicide. “He only knew that his previous life...--that his
previous life had been abandoned by him…” The beginning of the chapter clearly shows how Siddhartha abandons his previous life and become baptised or reborn in the river when he realizes the futility of his actions. It contains many more multitudes of references to reincarnation, including Siddhartha’s comment on his “deep sleep” (symbolizing his spiritual death and rebirth). They also mirror the section in chapter 4 when Siddhartha previously “threw away” his life experiences, thus fulfilling Sansara. Siddhartha’s reunion with Govinda also reflects how Siddhartha massively changes from this transformation, given that Govinda can’t recognize him. Later in the chapter, the symbol of the bird singing for joy as well as the death of the “thing” inside Siddhartha symbolizes his freedom from the shackles of society. The symbol of the “buzzing bee”, however, puzzles me greatly. In summary, this chapter contained a plethora of mysterious, symbolic language which highlighted the mystery of Siddhartha’s revelation.
Jessica White
ReplyDeletePeriod 5 Group 3
In the chapter Govinda, we start to get a sense of a conclusion through small actions the characters do. One of the quotes Siddhartha says to Govinda shows his perspective on his teachings. “I have had thoughts, yes, and insights, ever and always. Sometimes, for an hour or for a day, I have felt knowledge within me, just as one of the thoughts I have found: Wisdom cannot be conveyed. The wisdom a sage attempts to convey always sounds like folly.” This quote is significant to Siddhartha’s path to enlightenment and relevant to the discussion we had in class about whether enlightenment can be taught. Siddhartha seems to feel he is or has, reached a conclusion in his life to a question many people ask even now outside of the book. Govinda is still searching for his own form of enlightenment. He seems to want to know the “big secret” by asking Siddhartha how he has found his way and who taught him. I feel that it is also important to note that Siddhartha in this quote also says that he has had thoughts and insights as ever and always. Govinda has grown up with Siddhartha and has grown up with these thoughts and insights, I feel as if this is Siddhartha trying to make a personal connection with Govinda and their friendship. -Jess
Siddhartha’s humbleness in “Om” stood out to me as a sign that he had truly begun to achieve enlightenment. Before, he coldly distanced himself from other people and from his emotions as well, looking upon his own life as a bystander. By detracting his humanity from himself, he was inherently unable to achieve enlightenment of the human spirit. His newfound humility, exhibited in the beginning of “Om”, allows him to earnestly study the reasons why people live. “Differently than before, he now looked upon people, less smart, less proud, but instead warmer, more curious, more involved.” Hesse’s implementation of long, drawn-out sentences describing all kinds of people in one breath also emphasizes the equality among them. When the reader has little time to focus on the characteristics of different kinds of people, the reader instead focuses more on the broader picture. The relative lack of dialogue in “Om” also highlights the irrelevance of words for enlightenment, something which returns from earlier on in the story. For example, Siddhartha attains enlightenment from listening to the river because the river doesn’t use words to convey the mysteries of human life. In my opinion, this component of the story serves to illustrate a theme; we can only obtain enlightenment for ourselves by drawing from our life experiences and reflecting on the connections they have.
ReplyDeleteGreat post! I agree with you when you pointed out that it seemed like in this particular chapter that Siddhartha had really begun to see what to true enlightenment was. The fact that he was able to identify what it truly took for him to receive and experience complete nirvana also shows the fact that the step taken are not all teaching, but experience as well. I also liked how you were able to involve Hesse, and show what the true purpose is of his long, drawn out sentences are: creating a more prominent visual in the reader’s mind.
DeleteThough Siddhartha had played the game of the child people when he lived in town in the service of the merchant, it is only after sharing his life with his blood son and giving so much of himself in sacrifice, that he truly understands and respects the love and desire that dominates the child people. Natural emotion and love become high qualities now that Siddhartha has experienced them enough to truly understand them. Siddhartha, who was once devoted entirely to the pursuit of enlightenment, now shares his devotion between his role as a father and his role as the old sage that we see him become. But neither lessens the other - in fact, the acknowledgement of the fatherhood gives Siddhartha a greater scope to his wisdom. As the river always appears as a symbol of rightness and oneness, it does so again here, telling Siddhartha that his feelings are still going in the right direction. Anything and everything seems like it can be used for inspiration for Siddhartha now. In the beginning of his journey, when he began learning from the Brahma and the ascetics, the goal was ultimate knowledge, but now every little thing is valuable and provides wisdom. It becomes clear that Siddhartha’s individual path to enlightenment comes into focus, he has not mimicked the path of any other even though his enlightenment is the same quality of the Buddha’s. This shows that enlightenment is enlightenment, no matter how it arrives. He has begun to wear the smile of the Buddha and we can see that he has followed his own path and reached its peak. It also becomes a moment of enlightenment for Govinda, seeing that he is now a saintly shadow, communicating that with an experience and a connection, that it is not about following teachings, but it is about the learning from the experience of the world.
ReplyDeleteGood insight! I totally agree that Siddhartha has reached enlightenment in this case. Although the way it came to him was not expected, Siddhartha is happy and has gained knowledge through his fatherhood. I also agree that Siddhartha now being a father has pushed him forward as a person and has bettered him overall.
Delete-Ajay Patel
Ajay Patel
ReplyDeleteSiddhartha shifts his focus from total enlightenment and attempts to become a family figure. When I first read this, I expected Siddhartha to be one with himself towards the closing of the plot. However, Hesse surprised me by placing Siddhartha in a city and making him a dad. In class, we had talked about the stages of Hinduism and that one of the crucial stages consisted of becoming successful both financially and with family. Siddhartha now looks to be entering this phase. He now transfers from the journey of total enlightenment to becoming a man of respect and success. Siddhartha having a family causes him to open up his eyes. He no longer is impatient like he was in the past, he is happy, and some may say happiness reached enlightenment. Throughout the story, I wondered what Siddhartha wanted from enlightenment. I think it was happiness, he wanted to find happiness and before he felt that the only way was total enlightenment. However, I now see that Siddhartha has found some happiness with his family. His journey changed and he gained new knowledge on life from his family, and the people around him, this is a change from the beginning of the story. Perhaps he has reached enlightenment, Siddhartha is happy, and in my opinion, this is the main aspect of enlightenment.
Alex Prestwich
DeleteGood connection!. It is definitely clear to see how Siddhartha goes through all the stages of life in Hinduism before he achieves enlightenment. Since he had experienced Kama with Kamala and Grihastha through the wealth and grandeur in which he lived, he was able to move on to the more spiritual stages that occur after retirement. With Vasudeva, he was able to experience Vanaprastha, in which he no longer focuses on material wants and instead on his spiritual needs. As Siddhartha is able to achieve Moksha, the transcendent state, he almost perfectly is an example of the objectives and stages of life in Buddhism.
Alex Prestwich
ReplyDeleteAlthough Siddhartha was one of the child people, he always saw himself as separate. It took a connection with these people for him to truly sympathize. This connection came with the presence of his son. It seems as though through losing something so significant to him, he was able to overcome his largest obstacle, his ego. It started lessening when he left his life and asked to be Vasudeva’s apprentice, however it remained until he was able to feel empathy. As he was able to feel this oneness, Hermann Hesse, returned to one of the most prevalent themes of the book, life is cyclical. Siddhartha himself realized this as it says, “Was it not a comedy, a strange and stupid thing, this repetition, this running in a fateful circle?” As was obvious, Siddhartha himself had done the same to his father, and it was only natural that it would happen to himself. As Siddhartha was able to hear the “om”, it is clear that Siddhartha was not only learning from his teachers, but also from the whole world around him as he was able to listen to the “great song of the thousand voices”. The lack of dialogue in these chapters and the strong focus on the imagery of the world around them was indicative of how enlightenment was an internal process that was importantly connected to the world. In the end of the Chapter “Om”, Hesse focuses strongly on auditory imagery as Siddhartha is realising his oneness and listens to the world.
Great insight on the chapters! I also agree that Herman Hesse emphasized that life is cyclical. One of the main buddhist and hindu belief is that life is governed by karma and that it is an endless cycle of suffering and pain. Hesse conveys this motif to the reader throughout the novel. I also agree that Siddhartha is learning from hearing “Om,” it represents how Siddhartha is gaining knowledge from experiencing the world around him and not from the pointless words of teachers.
ReplyDeleteThroughout the novel, we see the motif of the cycle of life, however, in the chapter ‘Om,’ it is further emphasized. Siddhartha is very depressed about losing his son and one day when he looks into the river it laughs at him. Siddhartha looks at his reflection and he sees his father as stated, “It resembled the face of his father, the Brahmin.” This is evident of how life is a cycle, Siddhartha realizes how he has suffered the same fate as his father. Siddhartha’s son has left him in the same way that Siddhartha has left his father in the past. The river shows how everything is experienced again and suggest that the present time is affected by all time before it. In Buddhism and Hinduism, the wheel of Samsara exists, in which there is an endless cycle of rebirth, existing, and death, governed by karma. The river represents this cycle of samsara as Siddhartha always returns to it and the river also shows Siddhartha that the “same pain was suffered time and time again.” In this chapter, it is revealed that Vasudeva is a godly character and served as a guide to Siddhartha. When Siddhartha reached enlightenment, Vasudeva completed his job and left him, therefore, Siddhartha takes up the position that Vasudeva left vacant. This also illustrates that life is a cycle as Siddhartha becomes Vasudeva’s equal and also becomes a spiritual teacher for others. The chapter of ‘Om’ clearly illustrates that life is a cycle and that the present encompasses all experiences before it.
ReplyDeleteJessica White: I love your references to symbols in the book, along with the relation of the religions Buddhism and Hinduism. All of your examples are perfect for the point you are making towards the continuous circle, such as the river or his son. I noticed the circle while reading the book, but you found more examples then I did reading it the first time around. I like your point with Vasudeva saying Siddhartha really takes his place in Vasudeva’s old position. You made some very good reinforcing points towards how life is a circle. -Jess
DeleteMallory Schiebel: Great analysis Keri! Another example from the text that would also support your idea that the "present encompasses all experiences before it" is the Om. The Om represents rebirth and clarity for Siddhartha. Every time he becomes unsure or unaware of where his life is taking him, the Om appears and gives Siddhartha insight. The novel started with Siddhartha speaking the Om, and ends with him finding peace from it. The Om has led him to enlightenment, and all his experiences with and without the Om have led him to where he is today. However, with that being said, I still think the symbolism you found from the river and Vasudeva was great! It gave me more insight on how important this chapter was to the book and Siddhartha. Great job!
DeleteMallory Schiebel
ReplyDeleteIn Om, we really see Siddhartha’s life come full circle. He had to give up his son, and in doing that, he realizes the pain and sorrow he cost his father. However, I believe that Siddhartha losing the one thing he loved more than anything was the key piece in him achieving enlightenment. Siddhartha realizes that he is not much different than anybody else. He loves, he suffers, he feels. He is no higher than anyone else in the world. In this chapter, we also see the importance of the Om in Siddhartha’s life (hence the title of the chapter). The Om always appears when Siddhartha is suffering and in doubt, and it always soothes and calms him. I think that this is because the Om has been the only thing constant in Siddhartha’s life. Through all the ups and downs, and the changes he has gone through, the Om always appears and leads him to self clarity. He started his journey with the Om, and ended his journey with the Om.
“At this moment, Siddhartha ceased to struggle with fate, ceased to suffer. On his face bloomed the cheerfulness of wisdom that is no longer opposed by will, that knows perfection, that is in harmony with the river of what is, with the current of life, full of compassion, full of empathetic joy, surrendered to the flow, part of the unity.” This line from the chapter really stood out to me. Siddhartha had finally learned how to listen, and he had finally learned how to follow his heart, and to not overthink every decision he makes. The writing starts to feel poetic, and joyous, and that reflects how Siddhartha is feeling. The word choice Herman Hesse used really helps connect you to Siddhartha, and you feel the same emotion, happiness, and peace Siddhartha does when you read his words.
Louis Zhang
DeleteI agree with your point about how Siddhartha comes full circle; he worshipped the Om in his childhood and he has come back to it in the last few chapters. The Om seems to give Siddhartha the push he needs to continue forward in life, which could contribute to a theme. I think the Om’s presence leads us towards a theme about how everybody needs a core belief to allow them to continue on when life becomes cruel.
Charles Nasser
ReplyDeleteThroughout the novel, Siddhartha’s disdain for others (“child people,” as he likes to call them) was as evident as his ego. But in the closing chapters, it is apparent that Siddhartha perceives sympathy for these “child people” in his path to enlightenment, as his experiences throughout the novel have taught him more than mere words would be able to. After losing his son, he experiences the pain of a love-blind parent; after his stint in his obsession with materialism, he learned the qualms regarding such fixations; and after reliving such experiences in his memory and finally being able to sympathize with people in similar situations as his, he is finally able to achieve enlightenment. As the story closes with Siddhartha’s knowledge spreading to Govinda, Hesse indicates Siddhartha’s irrefutable love and peace for the world and the success of his journey to reach enlightenment.