After first reading "Heroes," I had no understanding of the meaning behind the poetry. However, after reading it many other times, and color marking, I have found a concrete meaning behind Dove's work. "Heroes," represents the relationship between a mother and daughter. As a daughter there are moments when you try to "pick it because it begins to wilt," or help and obey your mother. Although you had good intentions, it was something that your mother didn't wish for you to do, which leads to anger or "screaming." When a daughter over-steps her boundaries, or doesn't act as her mother pleases, the relationship takes a major toll. In the poetry, this is expressed as "so you strike her, she hits her head on a white boulder, and there's nothing to be done but break the stone into gravel..." The daughter's initial action was one of a hero, because they wanted to save the poppy, or do as her mother pleased, however it turned out the opposite. Now that there is a damper in the relationship between the mother and daughter, the daughter feels guilty. Her guilt was never intended, which relates to human nature. As humans, we often try to impress others, or step in with the intention of helping a situation, and only sublimate it in a negative way. No matter the circumstance, every daughter desires to be their mothers "hero," but achieving that title is much harder than it may seem.
Please let me know how you interpreted this poem so I know if I am on the right track or not!
I think your interpretation is excellent, but to add on to it, I thought the flower in the weedy field was a good quality of the daughter out of a bunch of bad or disgraceful ones rather than simply a heroic deed to impress the mother. Because the good flower was going to be overshadowed by all the bad weeds, the daughter had to pluck it, or attempt to receive praise from it by boasting about it. The mother sees this as a heinous act because boasting about the deed made the daughter's sole accomplishment become nothing. Finally, the field is entirely filled with bad flowers, so the mother hits her head on a white boulder, possibly indicating heaven, which is a better place than the disgraceful life she experienced with her pitiful daughter. Therefore the daughter is a full "criminal" of sorts. The title "Heroes" conveys a tone of pompousness, suggesting that the daughter tried to increase her impression on her mother by boasting about her one accomplishment, which ultimately led to her mother disregarding it. Therefore, I felt a main message of the poem was to be humble and do good things out of integrity rather than boastfulness, or that accomplishment may disgrace your image or overshadow your good quality entirely.
Before reading your post, I didn’t even notice the idea of the daughter being a hero by saving the poppy flower, or about the requirement to please your mother. What I did notice, however, was that the flower picked represented the old woman and her farm. The poem said, “…you’ve plucked the last poppy in her miserable garden, the one that gave her strength every morning to rise!” Flowers rise, in a way, and so does the old woman. Also, the garden is portrayed as miserable and, in the beginning, the flower is wilting, or becoming, not exactly miserable, but close to it. The old woman dies because of the girl who picked the flower, and the flower most likely dies as well because of her. She may have saved it from dying in the garden, but it would certainly die eventually in the glass of water.
I thought your interpretation of this poem was very interesting and insightful! Even though it was completely different from my own, I thought it was a valid interpretation since you backed it up with textual evidence. Personally, I interpreted the narrator of the poem as speaking to the reader as if they were a boy who thought they were being a hero to a girl by saving them from loneliness. I think this poem is meant to call out men who think they are doing women a favor by inviting them into a relationship. To me, the "flower in a weedy field" represents a girl who isn't necessarily the cream of the crop, so a boy picks it only to meet the rage of the girl's mother. Phrases like "her miserable garden" and "the written history she wouldn't live to read, anyway," create a tone of resentment towards the mother. This resentment symbolizes how easily men get offended when they take away a mother's daughter, since they assume that they were doing both the mother and daughter a favor. At the end, the poem asks, "O why did you pick that idiot flower?" to represent the resentment that eventually forms towards the girl the boy tried to "save." The flower "was going to die" not because it was living in a lonely, weedy field, but because it was saved and ripped away from its mother when it didn't need saving at all.
The first time that I read this poem, I did not realize that the girl was the daughter of the women, but thought they only knew each other because they were neighbors living in the same village. But I did relate the woman to the flower. I saw that the flower was soon to die because it was wilting. So, I thought the girl chose that particular flower and person because she felt that that they were close to death anyway and the house was the closest in the immediate area. I agree with your saying that when she strikes the woman that this happened after a change in the relationship and this is a demonstration of how the girl reacted to the change in the relationship. I also thought that the boulder represented heaven because white is usually associated with heaven and going to a better place. I thought that the daughter collected the gravel from the boulder to surround the flower as a symbol to suggest that her mother is now in heaven and is surrounded in good. I thought that the girl believed she was doing the right thing by picking the almost dead flower and putting it in the gravel because she wanted it to represent something more related to happiness than the sadness it was previously surrounded by in the garden.
In terms of the relationship between mothers and daughters, I think that this poem shows the anxiety of a mother torn between wanting to help her daughter, but afraid of the help turning into the kind of harm represented in "Heroes." Since the flower will die with or without "you" picking it, there is a sense of a fate that cannot be avoided. Personally, I think that the mother is both the "hero" and the old woman. She sees her daughter caught in issues (the weedy field) which will no doubt cause the daughter harm in the future ("it was going to die."), but upon plucking it away from the field and rushing to nurture it ("ask for a jar of water"), the daughter rejects the mother's care as nagging and the problem is only worsened. So far, there are a lot of really insightful interpretations, but no one really mentions the sixth and seventh stanzas. Do they also have a symbolic meaning, or are they used more to continue the flow of the plot in "Heroes?"
While all of your ideas are very insightful I found a different meaning behind this poem. I thought that the poem was yet another allegory for Persephone's kidnapping from Hades' point of view. Hades sees himself as a "Hero" for rescuing Persephone from the "miserable garden" that is the human world. Dove represents Persephone as a flower to show that she is weak and easily overtaken by Hades. Hades is called a fugitive in the seventh stanza to represent his expulsion from Olympus. The main character in the poem also refers to the care taker of the garden, or it's mother, as her or she. Assuming that the mother is Demeter this use of pronouns further shows Hades' rejection and resentment towards Olympus and the Gods.
I like your ideas and insight about this poem. However, I believe that the poem "heroes" is a representation of a mother feeling responsible to nurture and a mothers guilt as a destroyer. I believe the symbolism of the wilted poppy represents a daughter. A mother sees this wilted poppy and picks it to "prop up the flower in the stolen jar." The mothers goal is to save this wilted poppy, as a mother would nurture a daughter. Ultimately, the mother ends up killing this flower and is very destructive. This mother is blamed of destruction to this child when the ultimate goal was the preserve and nurture them.
I interpreted this poem as the flower representing a mother's only child. When the flower is picked, I thought this could refer back to the myth of Persephone when Hades took Persephone away to the under world. He believed he was doing a great deed by making her his queen, but to her mother it represented her ultimate death. The lines saying, " there's nothing to be done but break the stone into gravel and prop up the flower..." I interpreted it as Hades failed attempt to please the mother by letting Persephone come back to her for half of the year. This was a sort of apology toward her mother, but the damage had already been done. In her mother's eyes her daughter is already doomed to death, and the six months is equivalent to trying to prop up a flower that's already dead and pretend it's still the same. Ultimately, the mother feels as if she has lost the only thing that gave her true strength and happiness.
after reading " The Bistro Styx", my first thought was that it was just a friendly meeting between mother and daughter. i noticed that Rita would put side notes about how the mother is feeling or thinking towards the actions her daughter took with her future. at the start of the poem, there is positive imagery, but as the poem progresses, the imagery gets darker and more negative. i think this is to create a different mood with the reader. at first the poem creates a light mood of a mother happy to see her daughter, but farther in the poem, the mood changes to be more aggitated with the daughter's life decisions. i think Rita did this to emphasize how some mothers try to make their daughters follow the path that the mother wants them to take and when the daughter doesnt follow that path, the mother is more negative towards the daughter. relating this back to the greek mythology of Persephone and Diameter, this story emphasizes the disappointment that Diameter felt when she found out that Persephone ate the pomegranate seeds. Does anyone else feel the negativity and annoyance the mother has towards her daughter's decision in the poem?
The mother is very much disappointed. However, I feel that this poem detracts from the original myth in a number of ways. Persephone has been kidnapped by Hades, whereas the daughter willingly strays from the path of her mother. The modern Persephone chooses to leave the path. This leads to the mother being annoyed, whereas in the original myth, Demeter is heppy to see Persephone when she returns. There are a lot of similarities as well, especially how the mothers feel when they "lose" their daughters. I think Rita Dove included the differences from the original myth on purpose in order to make a point about how women in that time period didn't want to follow what society wanted them to do. However, the poem portrays that as odd and even insane, which falls out of line with Rita Dove's beliefs.
After reading Dove's poem "Primer", I thought it had a fairly clear meaning and relation to the Greek myth about Persephone. In the poem, it is clear the daughter is having troubles with the other kids and is bullied by them, but she doesn't want her moms help. Dove writes, "...my five-foot-zero mother drove up in her Caddie to shake them down to size. Nothing could get me into that car." I believe that in all mother-daughter relationships, the mom is very protective over the daughter but most times the daughter wishes to figure out and deal with her problems on her own. The daughter says, "I... swore I'd show them all: I would grow up." This powerful statement that ends the poem does in fact show the daughter's desire to grow up meaning handling her own problem and showing the bullies they're wrong. All humans go through problems and it is very relatable that they tend to prefer solving those problems by them-self without the help of those who love them. Dove's poem departs from the Greek myth through its modern American word choice used and the unrelated story it tells. However, the overall meaning of the poem possibly relates to how Persephone felt about her mother. Demeter attempted to help her but maybe Persephone didn't want her help and either accepted the problem or tried to deal with it in her own way. Did anyone else find other details about the poem that support the meaning or find a different meaning from the poem?
I agree with your idea of this independence both Persephone and the main character of this poem want from their parents. These opposite struggles that you compared worked very well based on the relationships that were involved around them. Each of these works has a mother daughter relationship, and a 'villain' such as the Gatlin girls, and Hades. Another similarity I also found was both of the main characters were controlled by something out of their own control. Example being Hades taking Persphone, and the other girl getting bullied.
After reading "Breakfast of Champions," to me, it referred to a mother giving birth, and reflecting on the rewards that come with raising a child. The poem sets the mood with "overcast skies," conveying a tone of dreariness and a hint of despair. However, the narrator claimed that she "worked her way through petals and sunlight to find a place fit for mourning." This means that, while she experienced happy times thinking about having children, she also experienced the pains of childbirth. Weather produces dreary imagery, while beautiful nature imagery contrasts with this to convey the narrator's ambivalent attitude in having a child. However, she references the martini to convey a tone of celebration later when she finally has her child. When the Canada geese arrive, they were "honking." This conveys a tone of annoyance, where while they are a pretty sight and signal the coming of a new season, they're arrival into the lake was displeasurable, similar to childbirth. Furthermore, the narrator concludes with a couplet stating an analogy that, while she ate her recommended portion of cereal, she sprinkled stones on it, suggesting that it tasted bitter and disgusting. Therefore, this corresponds to the narrator enduring the pain of childbirth, yet reaping the rewards of earning a child to care for and nurture in the future. This is what the title, "Breakfast for Champions," means, in which a mother has to "eat a breakfast" of pain during childbirth, yet in the long run, she is a "champion" for having the gift of a child. I noticed that most of the starts of sentences were spondaic in meter, such as "finally," "Arise," and "I'll dive," to illustrate the author's triumphant attitude as she endures suffering yet looks forward to her reward. Lastly, I felt this poem lacked coherent rhyme scheme because of its dark yet triumphant tone, with defined rhythm conveying a tone of ebullience and effervescence. Please let me know if you have different interpretations.
Comparing Persephone, Falling and The Narcissus flowers I soon found that both these poems potrayed the same tone. These tones were violence and sexuaility. For instance in Persephone, Falling, "No one heard her. No one!" This quote expresses violence and anger the same tone which is shown in the Narcissus Flower, " I found myself at the center of a calm so pure, it was hate". This line demonstrates self pity and hatred but also in a sense contentment with her situation. In both these sineros it sounds as both the people are being harassed in either a physical or emotional way. Rita Dove uses the relationship towards Deminer and Persephone to show grief, pity, sadness, and many other emotions through a mother and daughter relationship.
Similar to Olivia, I noticed in the poem Primer how the narrator glorifies her mother and wants to be like her. The way the mother is described as “five-foot-zero” meaning she is very small. Despite being smaller than most other people, she was still able to stand up to the three Gatlin kids. The narrator, the daughter, wasn’t able to and always had to run from their shoves. That’s why she would refuse to get in the car after her mother saved her from the three skinny sisters, who are labeled as skinny most likely to illustrate how they’re small as well. The bullied girl doesn’t want to be picked on by people who are just as small as her, she wants to be like her mom and be able to stand up to anyone even if they are bigger than her. I also found it interesting that in this poem, the antagonists are girls, compared to a majority of the other poems where they’re a boy. For example, in Party Dress for a First Born, Rita Dove wrote, "men stride like elegant scissors...they will nudge each other to get a peek...all the while wishing them dead." Men represent a bad people, and she seems to categorize all guys into a those who take advantage of women, and in a way, opposing the idea of love. The only love she agrees with is Mother Love, the whole concept of these poems. Do you think there is a reason behind the bad person being a group of girls in Primer?
Nate, I couldn't agree with your interpretation more! It's interesting how you noticed that the bullies were girls, rather than boys. I believe that Dove may have chosen them because a girl is more likely to try and be like other girls, rather than boys. For example, girls often see others and wish for their looks, or their hair etc... In this poem, the girl wants to be strong and mean, rather than perceived as one who is weak and can easily be picked on. She also admires her mothers boldness, and knows that someday she will have the confidence that her mother has. This is a great question though, because if the bullies were boys, the daughter could still have desired to be like them. Does anyone else have a perspective?
The first couple of times I read Golden Oldie, I was a bit confused by the message. Upon skimming it for the first time, I tended to latch onto the idea of this mysterious love at the end of the poem, instead of the relationship between the mother and her daughter. Even though the mother isn't physically present during the poem, after reading it a few times over, I started to find distinct introductions to her. The mood of the poem doesn't seem to waver much, the girl always stuck in a state of uncertainty. As the poem sets the scene in the beginning, it shows the girl in over her head. Rita writes, "Swaying at the wheel like a blind pianist caught in a tune meant for more than two hands playing." The word, "swaying" automatically made me think of a drunk person whose vision is clouded by the alcohol, like the girl's who decision is overtaking her thoughts. The excerpt, "meant for more than two hands playing" suggests that this is something the girl can't handle alone, she needs help with it. Why she doesn't ask for help, or can't receive it a question of interpretation. Personally, I think it is the own girl's stubbornness holding her back from asking. This desire to rule herself is shown in, "The words were easy, crooned, by a young girl dying to feel alive, to discover a pain majestic enough to live by." The paradox of "dying to feel alive" shows both a character who is seemingly controlled, and one who wishes to break free. The last line of the poem, "or where to start looking" shows this is a journey the girl will take on her own. Overall, I found this poem to be the point in which a child breaks off to become their own person, no one is completely their parents, at some point they have to branch off. I'd love to hear if you guys had any other interpretations, this poem can be taken many ways!
Your interpretation of "Golden Oldie" is very in depth and thorough. However, I viewed the poem at a slightly different angle. When I first read the poem I imagined it as Persephone talking in a modern society, longing for love. This would be ironic due to her unfortunate fate. The poem states, "'Baby, where did our love go?'- a lament I greedily took in without a clue who my lover might be, or where to start looking." If the poem were to represent her overall mindset prior to her kidnapping, Dove would be showing how differently Persephone viewed her own fate towards love from how it actually turned out. This use of dramatic irony, if the poem is viewed as Persephone narrating, might have been intended to elicit pity from the reader.
I think that both of you have very good view points about this poem, however I viewed this poem in a different way. I immediately envisioned a mother who was the one in the divers seat and that this poem was about the mother not being able to do anything about her daughter growing up and making her own decisions. The mother and daughter had once had an amazing relationship which would refer to the "two hands playing" and is now is a solo pianist. The mother knows that the daughter must experience life but she does not know how to deal with the ache in her heart from the daughters absence. Lastly near the end of the poem the line "baby, where did our love go?" made me imagine the mother lying there thinking about their past relationship and the mother running her mind ragged with the thought of the relationship never returning.
i had similar ideas about whose point of view the poem is trying to perceive.i also interpreted the poem as a young teenage girl in modern times. my first idea was a girl who was lonely and was looking for love. "baby, where did our love go?" and "dying to feel alive" struck me as young, innocent teenage girl who wanted to grow up and wanted to find someone who she can love and who could love her back. i see this poem as before Persephone was taken by Hades and that this poem could represent her thoughts while she strayed from her mother.her mother was very protective and it would make sense if Persephone had thoughts about who her lover might be, which is what i believe Rita Dove was trying to show with Golden Oldie.
After reading "Used", I had some mixed feelings. I interpreted it rather strangely, but I believe it has some merit. The poem begins by describing the new fads of American society: "Size threes', "Skirts ballooning above twinkling knees". It presents the impossible standards that women are subjected to constantly in American society. It really illustrates the oppression women face, in living up to these unreal standards. In the second part of the poem, it enters into vivid rape imagery onto this woman (And no I am not agreeing with Austin Jones), in which she is raped exchange for a better deal on silk sheets. There are two main pieces of symbolism that are present here. The first are the silk sheets. The silk sheets referred to are symbolic of the high standards that women are forced to live up to in their looks, as compared to the high quality that silk sheets are in comparison to cotton sheets. The rape imagery is symbolic of the way that American society treats women. Society forcibly "rapes" women in the way that it treats them and forces them to live up to immense standards in their appearance. As a whole, it is a representation of the casualties that women have to live through in American society around the standards that they have to live up to.
I totally agree with you that Dove was stating that women are oppressed by American society to be perfect. I thought it was interesting that you brought up the rape imagery because I did not notice this upon reading it the first time. But after looking at the second to last line where it says "Enough of guilt" I can see that this could definitely imply rape imagery. I did however view this as Dove's critique of females today, and how the social norms of society have forced women into becoming the idea of "perfect" when in reality it could be hurting them through eating disorders and depression. I also now agree that the silk sheets symbolize the "perfect look" for women, but I think Rita Dove herself was effected by the change in societies view of women.
I found The Narcissus Flower to be a dark poem that deals with a very important and relevant issue. The poem utilizes figurative language, rape imagery and structure to symbolize the transformation women go through when they experience traumatic experiences such as rape. Before, the women is compared to "a frightened bird" to show that she is scared of being vulnerable, however she is still in flight and therefore she is still free. In the next stanza, Dove writes that the "blossom incinerated," symbolizing the violent loss of innocence. Dove then combines simile and personification with rape imagery in order to make a strong impact on the reader and to burn a picture in his or her mind. She compare this man to be "adamant as a knife easing into the humblest crevice." Even when cutting through butter, the humblest crevice, a knife shows no mercy, similar to how a man shows no mercy when taking away the innocence of even the most chaste of woman. Even though this particular women overcame this trauma by eating the fear before it ate her, she finds that she "can live beyond dying" showing that you still retain your life and soul after deathly experiences such as rape, although it is painful to pretend to continue life as before. This woman's transformation into a "queen whom nothing surprises" represents how she has seen the worst the world has to offer so therefore nothing can phase her. She lives almost as a sort of ghost, without hope and without optimism. Finally, Dove utilizes short and to-the-point stanzas to emphasize the strong, bitter tone. The narrator talks as if she's restricted and destroyed by her past experiences.
"The Bistro Styx" struck me as an allegory for the way mothers feel that their children (daughters) are lost in the modern world today. Also, allusions to the myth of Persephone seemed to be most obvious in this poem compared to the others. Negative and dark imagery, often associated with death, are used to describe the daughter as well as elements throughout the poem. Dove begins with "She was thinner, with a mannered gauntness.... silvery cape billowing..." in the first stanza, and follows with "she was dressed all in gray... down to the graphite signature of her shoes." This references Persephone's appearance after she becomes queen of the underworld, as the lifeless colors literally symbolize the dullness of her new life. The eighth and ninth stanza show the fact that Demeter and Persephone's relationship have changed. Persephone not only has a formal tone of speech when addressing her mother, but her chat is interrupted by the observation of "The Chateaubriand arrived on a bone-white plate... black plug steaming like the heart plucked from the chest of a worthy enemy." Again, negative imagery pervades each stanza of the piece.
Similarly, I connected the repeated mentioning of fruit and food to the six pomegranate seeds that Persephone consumed. Throughout “The Bistro Styx,” it seemed that the daughter was more concerned with food than the conversation between her and her mother. Demeter has lost her daughter to the underworld, just as in the present there is a growing disconnection between a parent and child due to the temptations of material goods, careers, modern facilities. Persephone, or the child, is losing old values (the values of the mother) in order to pursue the new ventures that have enticed her.
The one interesting thing I noticed is that the “Persephone” in this poem seemed to be a willing “queen” of the underworld, whereas in mythology she longs to be back with her mother. I think that this illustrates that fact that children aren't being wrenched away or tricked by technology or modern goods, but that they are willingly and knowingly letting themselves be taken in. What do you guys think of the way “Persephone” is portrayed throughout this poem?
"The Bistro Styx" is a poem alluding to the Greek myth of Demeter and Persephone. The mother in this poem feels that she has lost her child at the end, and the food is a symbol of the pomegranate seeds that Persephone ate. The daughter is posing for an artist, who represents Hades. There are other references to the myth as well, such as the "bone-white plate" symbolizing the bones of the Underworld and "lipstick ghost" symbolizing the daughter being dead in the Underworld. The title of the poem itself references the river Styx, the river of forgetfulness, referencing the fact that the daughter has forgotten her old life. The mother is trying to bring her daughter back to her old life, while the daughter seems to be lost, paying more attention to the food than her mother. She tries to prove the significance of her job by telling her about the Parisians' love for her. This is ironic because love in Paris tends to be fleeting. This poem represents the ways that daughters have been "kidnapped" by their jobs and losing their old lives, just as Hades kidnapped Persephone. I find it rather odd that this anti-feminist idea would be conveyed by Rita Dove.
I don't think the poem is anti-feminist at all. Yes, the daughter is very involved with her work, but it is not the work that is manipulating the daughter into something that she despises. If you notice, the first line of the sixth stanza refers to the woman's daughter as "the brooding artist's demimonde". "Demimonde" is a French word for someone who lives a life of hedonism and questionable morality--its literal translation is "half world", much like how the daughter’s poor life choices will cost her her relationship with her mother. It is implied later by the lines “he’d convinced/ her to pose nude for his appalling canvasses,” that the artist and daughter are in a relationship. This parallels the relationship between Hades and Persephone, as Persephone is the Queen of the Underworld in Greek mythology. The mother, who certainly displays the unbridled contempt for her daughter’s partner that Demeter did, does not see her daughter at fault. No parent wants to blame their child for something that can be blamed on those they associate with, and as such the mother blames the artist-become-boyfriend for her daughter’s life choices. Because it shifts the blame away from the female member of a consenting relationship for her own choices and onto the male member, portraying him and other men as manipulators and corruptors of the good and innocent, this poem, and by extension the story of Persephone, are so far from anti-feminist that they could be considered misandrist.
Upon reading "Party Dress for a First Born", several ideas occurred to me. First, the main premise of the poem has a strange sexual premise to it. "Tonight men stride like scissors across the lawn to the women arrayed , petals waiting to loosen." which may be another way of the courtesan system of what is occurring in the poem. What Rita Dove means by this is the poem is representing the regret of giving yourself to another person in that manner by which the "nudging" happens. both stanzas end with colons, which may be included for tone, or it might represent the emotions the protagonist is experiencing at this point. the words "step" and "stand" are both used twice, which represents movement from where the the character is going: which direction is she taking with her life? Will there be repercussions to this promiscuous behavior?
I agree with the main idea of your post that the poem is heavily about sexuality, and regret. This I think links back into my argument that Mother Love is about various sexual situations. I think the line "all the while wishing them dead," links back to Rita Doves hatred of men. Many of the poems in this are about rape or regretted sex, and how much she hated the men who commit rape. But in this poem she drags this out much further and says all men "Nudge each other to get a peek" and how she wishes them all dead. Historically this ties into how many female members of the Social Justice movements attack all men, instead of those who wronged them. I think this poem, tying into the others, makes Rita Dove not that much of an admirable figure, but instead one that we should look upon with scorn.
So after reading "Persephone, Falling" I almost immediately came to the conclusion it was about rape. The conclusion most people would come to is the idea that it would be about kidnapping, as that is the basis of the myth of Persephone. Yet some of the choices in words would lead one to believe that instead of being about kidnapping it would be about rape. The first one of these is the fact she "Stooped to pull harder," or bended over. As she was bending over the man on the glittering carriage "Claims his due." Then the repetition of "No one!" would also suggest that she felt utterly alone and that no one cared, which is a feeling similar to that of how many rape victims feel. The final two references are "How easily the pit opens," and "How one foot sinks into the ground" which both indirectly reference sex. I later browsed through the other poems to find if any of the others are about strange sexual situations. The Narcissus Flower, being the next poem in the packet, was the first one I looked at. In the Narcissus Flower there are also references to sex. The line "I could... hear myself scream as the blossom incinerated" is a sexual innuendo. Incinerated is a very dark term, which leads the reader to think that the "blossom" was burned in a very dark way. Then later in the poem it says "This man adamant as a knife easing into the humblest crevice" is a innuendo for intercourse. As the "knife" was easing in she felt pure hatred, just like many rape victims. In the poem "Exit" Rita Dove also puts in many sexual innuendos, specifically that of having a loose partner and losing them. The first thing that points this out is the use of the color pink. The closing windows that are pink are much like a specific part of the female body after it has been used. The suitcase and taxi is a sign of her being kicked out of a house. This house, as the color pink hints at, is one of a partner who kicked her out. The final two lines include "When your mother told you what it took to be a woman in this life" is a hint towards one losing their virginity. The best way to describe this innuendo is to look at a poem by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn called "Prussian Nights". In "Prussian Nights" a woman is raped and it uses this line to describe it "A girl’s been turned into a woman, A woman turned into a corpse." All of these references to rape and sex led me to wonder if Rita Dove had some experience with rape or loss of a partner. I could not find any information on this, but I believe it would be a very interesting question to ask her.
I think this is very intriguing perspective, and a bit tamer compared to your other theories. There definitely are hints towards some sort of sexual violence, though I wonder if Dove just meant to connect her poems with the primal, sexual nature of a lot of mythology. The Narcissus Flower, for example, could have its name derived from the tale of Narcissus, a hunter in Greek mythology who was renowned for his beauty. He actually fell in love with his reflection, which I think is reflective in this poem where there's a change in subjects from "I" to "you", though I can't really draw many more parallels between the poem and the tale.
Austin, I agree to you to an extent on your ideals about this poem. In my personal opinion this view is a bit extreme, and not the idea that Dove was attempting to portray. In the poem though, there are multiple instances in which I believe Dove was attempting to convey the emotional toll that rape plays on an individual. I believe though, it is trying to show the social impact that rape has on a person specifically. In the last line of "Persephone, Falling", it states "She had strayed from the heard". This line is in place to really emphasize the social impact that rape has on an individual. This individual referred to had forcibly "strayed from the herd", meaning she was an outcast in society. Due to this event, she is viewed as a lesser being and is less desirable as a wife and a companion. Rape destroys a person's social reputation and changes the course of their life. This is the main ideal that Rita Dove is trying to illustrate in his poem.
My first time reading "The Narcissus Flower", I went in with a bit of bias, taking inspiration from Austin's unique commentary from the other day. I found a lot of the language related to innocence and could easily be related to the loss of innocence. For example, in the first sentence, "frivolous" means carefree, representative of the childish attitude of having no responsibilities, and a "frightened bird" could represent purity in nature. In the following parts, there is a deflowering of sorts, where the "blossom [is] incinerated", a plunge by a man who isn't restrained(chastened), full force, "adamant as a knife easing into the humblest crevice". I also found the shift 3/5th of the way in the poem interesting, where the commentary goes from "I" to "you". I thought this could be relatable to how someone who is a victim of a tragedy copes with their pain and struggles, victimizing themselves and in turn, no longer seeing themselves as "I" but someone else, so disarrayed that they've almost become a different individual. In this poem, the individual finds herself "at the center of a calm so pure, it was hate", and I again connected this to the idea of a person using some sort of disassociation or denial technique to cope with extreme distress. Finally at the end of the poem, "you can live beyond dying — and become a queen whom nothing surprises." I also connected this with the idea of pretending, becoming something one isn't or ignoring reality by achieving the impossible, life beyond death.
I can see why there would be a bit of a bias, as much of the discussion surrounding her works consisted of promiscuous references. "The Narcissus Flower" can support this ideal of Rita Dove using these innuendos as a way to convey tone and theme. This poem was about way innocence was taken from her by supernatural beings, and with this the way it is described can attribute to mixed emotions and reactions. This idea of supernatural forces acting upon the mortal world might be attributed to the conflict of man vs. fate, the way destiny becomes a reality.
The first time that I read "Demeter, Waiting", I did not understand what it was trying to say. After I reread it a few times, I thought that Demeter was blaming herself for her daughter being gone for part of the year. When the poem says, 'refuse any meadow that recycles itself into hope," I felt this meant that every year her hope comes back but she tries to deny it every time, reminding herself that there was nothing she could do to change their situation. Every time "will" is used in the second part, I connected this to what she was she needed to do to get through this part of the year, making everyone else suffer. And when "who" is used in the beginning part, this was what she was convincing herself that this was what she was now that she was dealing with her daughter missing. I also noticed that the use of imagery was increased at the end of the poem. I thought this was her telling everyone what this part of the year would be like from now on.
I see your point of view but the change from the first word to the last word made me interpret this a bit different. Dove starts the poem with "No". After reading the whole thing and thinking to this one word, I think this is more of a poem about denial. I think it's denial because of the line "She is gone again and I will not bear / it..." This seems like she is denying that her daughter is gone once again because of her. By her saying she will not bear it, she may be referring to grief, pity, or waiting. Denial usually ends with acceptance which is why she says " Then I will sit down to wait for her. Yes." I feel like her saying yes means that she's accepted the fact that it was her fault that her daughter went away. And her waiting is accepting the fact that her daughter is, in fact, gone.
After reading over the poem "Used" I got a feeling that Rita Dove was critiquing the female gender in our society. She says "Size threes are all the rage, and skirts ballooning above twinkling knees are every man-child's preadolescent dream." I interpreted this as Dove stating that women today are worrying about their appearance to impress a man. Dove is not saying that it is the women's faults themselves, but what society has turned them into. The title "Used" is Dove's way of saying that society has made a large amount of women not feel comfortable in their skin and strive to be the model of perfection. I agree with her because I know that let's say fifty years ago models where not a size three yet they were still considered perfect and today every model is skin and bones. "Tabula rasa. No slate's that clean" this next line in the poem in my opinion is saying that because society has used women to make them become unhealthily skinny, all women in this society are being pressured to become this "model of perfection". Tabula rasa in Latin means blank slate, and Dove is stating with this that the social norms for women are not allowing them to fully express themselves as people. The last line "It's hard work staying cool." portrays Dove's understanding of the social norms for women and how it is difficult to not accept them.
I completely agree with your interpretation. When I first read this poem, I was struck by its focus on size and materialistic items. In the first line of the poem, Dove wrote, “The conspiracy is to make us thin…” The diction of the word conspiracy really stood out to me in how it indicated that it is a plan to make women feel they need to be thin to be a woman. Additionally, in the second line of the same stanza, Dove uses the word rage to describe the obsession society has with being a size three. Rage is a passionate outburst, and by using this word, Dove conveys that it has become a passion of women to become thin. I love your point of the making women feel uncomfortable in their skin. Furthermore, I found this title conveyed the idea that this obsession with size makes women feel like an object that can be easily be discarded and are at the disposal of society. One point I wanted to add has to do with the purpose of this poem. As we learned in class, Dove was a mother to one daughter. I believe she wrote this poem for her daughter to convey the idea that is not necessary to succumb and conform to the pressures of society; it is okay to be different and you should be confident no matter what shape or size.
Rita Dove’s poem, "Used", is a poignant portrayal of the beginnings of postpartum depression and the conflicting societal standards regarding maternal sexuality. The first of the poem’s stanzas is a clear condemnation of American attitudes towards female beauty and cultural expectations of female sexuality. By beginning with “The conspiracy’s to make us thin,” Dove makes clear who the target of this poem is. It is not “the conspiracy”, but rather the patriarchy which oppresses all women that the poem is targeting, specifically the beauty standards enforced upon women by American culture. The line, “Skirts ballooning above twinkling knees” takes similar aim at America’s fetishization of youth and its association with femininity. Balloons and twinkling are both childish words, funny in their sound and the mental images that they conjure: balloons create a mental image of clowns twisting latex tubes into rough caricatures of animals, and twinkling sounds both like a euphemism for urination and alludes to the nursery rhyme “Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star”. The last line, “Tabula Rasa. No slate’s that clean—“ refers to the way American culture similarly prizes virginity as a hallmark of a beautiful woman, and rejects those who are not virgins as impure or sullied, like a used piece of slate. The second stanza makes it clear that the narrator is a mother grappling with sadness after birthing her child. The first two lines, “we’ve earned the navels sunk in grief/ when the last child emptied us of their brief/ interior light,” is an obvious reference to the distended abdomen of a pregnant woman. However, the second clause is interesting in its reference to a baby as a “brief interior light”. Once the woman is “emptied” of her child, this light which illuminates her soul is gone, and the woman views her normal-looking belly as something which causes her grief, not something which should bring her joy, which would be suggested by the first stanza. The woman now sees herself as used, suggested by, “Our muscles say We have been used.” This is where the connection between the first and second stanzas is evident. The woman’s view of herself, twisted by years of patriarchal manipulation in the form of beauty standards perpetrated by mainstream culture, is incredibly poor, because she has traded her svelte figure and untorn hymen for a baby. Now that she is no longer pregnant, she views herself as merely used goods, having served her biological and societal purpose. If this woman were to continue down this path unabated, she will inevitably suffer from postpartum depression. (continued)
The third stanza suggests a reversal of the woman’s sadness and newfound agency over her sexuality. She describes trying silk sheets, an image loaded with sexuality. Silk sheets are not sold due to their practicality, in fact, they are highly impractical. One only purchases silk sheets, or silk anything for that matter, for the hedonistic pleasure they provide to their users. The sibilance of the phrase “silk sheets” is clear, repeating the long “s” sound in a manner almost pornographic in its sensuality. Silk sheets, then, represent the narrator’s decision to recommence her sexual life. She describes her motivation as, “persuaded by postnatal dread and a Macy’s clerk to bargain for more zip”. This woman, in the beginning stages of postpartum depression, fears most that she will no longer be viewed as desirable by her sexual partner and sees these silk sheets as a way to bring back her partner’s sexual interest that she fears is gone. However, these sheets end up doing more than just enable the narrator to have sex: they give her back her self-confidence. The last lines, which describe the silk sheets sliding off of her and her partner as they copulate, end with, “Enough of guilt—/ It’s hard work staying cool”. This makes it clear that the woman has become reimpowered, no longer beholden to the beauty standards enforced upon her and other pregnant women by society. She now owns her sexuality, saying so in a way that tells the reader that she no longer cares about anyone thinks about her regarding sex, and thus saving her from the postpartum depression she had grappled with due to societal standards forced upon her and all other women.
I don't think that the silk sheets are pornographic in nature. Although, their purpose is pleasure, sayying its primarily for sex is a stretch. If you have the money, you might want to buy silk sheets for the supreme comfort they provide, not in hope of attracting a mate. I don't believe that sheets make that much of an impact. No one is going to get aroused and head to the bedroom and say " I would if you had silk sheets" and leave. I have never owned silk sheets so I cannot prove this, but I don't think the material that your sheets are comprised of affect your confidence. I love the idea of her breaking free of the standards placed on her by society when she gives up on being "cool" that you addressed.
To go along with Brooke and the many replies, the poem "Heroes" had a very different meaning to me. When I first read the poem I found no obvious meaning to it. However after reading it multiple times I came to a conclusion. I believe that the daughter had taken the flower for granted. Children are considered innocent and do not understand what sacrifices and secrets parents keep for their own protection. They also like to dig around and be nosy for information. The flower in my opinion was a representation of the mothers secrets that she keeps from the daughter to shield her from the reality and truth about the real world. When the daughter picks the flower she then reveals all of those secrets, good and bad. However when the daughter does this simple act she does not realize that she does wrong until the mother is seen overreacting. The mother realizes that when the daughter picked the flower her shield of protection had been taken from her. The mother then feels the need to humilate the child and "prop up the flower in the stolen jar" for everyone to see what wrong she was done. Also in the line "you have to take along, because you're a fugitive now and you can't leave clues" and with this I looked at this as the mother telling the child that she must suffer from the consequences with knowing these truths about certain situations. And with this the daughter must live with the consequence of not being able to share any information, which as we can relate to in real life is hard for little children not to do. I was wondering if anybody related to the story in the way I did and if not then did you interpret it a different way then previously stated from other classmates and myself.
While reading the poem Mother Love for the first time I automatically noticed the use of harsh t sounds. This made me think of an angry mother scolding her child. As I read on I began to notice the parallels between the poem and the story of Persephone and Demeter. The entirety of the poem is Demeter mourning Persephone and sending the mortal world into the long fall and winter months. In the last lines of the poem Demeter is described roasting a baby boy over a fire. This child's torture represents the torture people go through as they starve and lose their young children in the the harsh winter season. The fire imagery in the first and second stanzas refers to Persephone's life with Hades in the underworld. The use of enjambments in this poem represents the never ending pain of losing a child. The enjambments also show the never ending love a mother has for their child even if they are no longer with them. In a more modern setting this poem represents mothers of miscarried children who feel indirected hatred towards themselves and the the others in their lives. These mothers have all the emotions to care for a child but feel like they have no one to bestow it upon. These similar feelings are shown in the first lines of the first stanza, "Toss me a baby and without bothering to blink I'll catch her... the remedy for grief is being needed...". Without their children, mothers feel unwanted and full of grief. This grief can cause women to unleash emotions that may not be intended like Demeter's anger and torture on the mortal world.
Now that I look at Mother Love after reading your analysis, it makes much more sense. My initial reaction, however, was much different. It seemed like at the end the woman was using a stove to castrate a baby boy so that he 'might be cured to perfection.' I thought that the extreme form of hate for men that Rita Dove so clearly gets across was really just a hate for Hades. And that she developed her hate for Hades throughout the poem by using motherly imagery to comment on everything he had taken away from her.
After reading the poems from Mother Love, the poem “The Narcissus Flower” was the most intriguing in my opinion. The first piece of the poem that caught my eye was the interesting title. After doing some research, I realized that the term Narcissus is an allusion to the Greek Mythology story of Narcissus. Narcissus was a hunter who fell in love with himself after he saw his own reflection in a pool of water and later drowned because he could not leave the puddle. Additionally, the title is a pun because Narcissus is also a beautiful white flower. Both meanings of the title contribute to the interpretation throughout the poem that one’s innocence has been corrupted because Narcissus harms himself while a flower is delicate and can easily be torn. In the first stanza, Dove juxtaposes the negative and positive diction of “frivolous slipper/ a frightened bird” to illustrate how early in life, although there may be troubles, represented by the negative connotation of the word frightened, it is mostly confortable and fun, demonstrated through the comfort of the word slipper and the positive diction of frivolous. At the end of that stanza, Dove added, “not the earth unzipped” to convey that while someone is innocent, he or she is not aware of all the dangerous, harsh events of the adult world. The second stanza clearly illustrates one becoming aware of the dark parts of the world. Dove wrote, “but the way I could see my own fingers and hear /myself scream as the blossom incinerated.” Symbolically, the blossom incinerating indicates that one has lost their complete innocents. This may be sexual, as many of you have pointed out, or just being exposed to something negative. By writing that the speaker could hear him or herself scream, Dove illustrates that the speaker is helpless at this point and cannot do anything to prevent the loss of innocence. The next two stanzas discuss a “knife easing into/ the humblest crevice...” Knives are sharp objects that potentially anyone can be hurt by, even if they are being used for innocent purposes. The cuts caused by knives can be shallow or very deep, but often leave life long scars. Through the symbolism of the knife, Dove conveys that people cannot escape the effects of the darkness in the world, and the outcomes of the loss of innocence can impact a person for his or her whole life. The last two stanzas discuss how someone can overcome the results of loss of innocence; they need to be fearless. Dove uses the paradox of “live beyond dying” to demonstrate that there is a whole new life after this innocence. This life can be great and a person can become accustomed to the darkness in the world as shown through the lines “and become a queen/ whom nothing surprises.” This poem was exquisite in how it conveyed the loss of innocence. If anyone has other interpretations, feel free to add a comment!
The poem titled "Exit" seemed to be easier for me to analyze than any of the others. It has a motif of leaving and beginning a new life. It was much like a coming of age, almost like the poem was about leaving for college. The second paragraph of the poem is when the leaving motif is very prominent. The first sentence mentions closing a window behind you, as if to mark a monumental change. Basically, there is no going back. Near the end of the second paragraph, it talks about the method of escape, which is the taxicab waiting, and the symbolic suitcase that is like cutting all ties to your past life, bringing everything of value, and leaving everything that isn't important. The passage shows that they were not the happiest to leave, as the suitcase was "the saddest object in the world".Finally, in the last line of the final passage, it talks about a mother teaching you " what it took to be a woman in this life". This is the coming of age I addressed earlier.
One poem in Mother Love that I found particularly interesting was "Exit". In Exit, Dove is describing a daughter leaving her mother to start her own life. Originally it makes this new life sound sort of scary. Dove uses colors to convey this, describing the house you are leaving as pink, which could represent love or comfort, while describing the new world you are entering as gray, which seems drab or sad, especially in comparison. However, in the 3rd stanza, the clouds (despite being part of the "outside" world) are described as blushing, which seems contradictory to the last stanza where it was described as gray. This blush is compared to the blush "you" had when your mother gave you advice about living your new life. I think Dove's purpose here is to show that even though leaving home to start a new life can be scary, it can be easier if you keep home and what you learned while living there in mind.
After reading this, I can see exactly where you are coming from. I think the colors in this poem make sense with what you think they represent and I also like what you said at the end about how starting a new life can be scary because I think that is a very relatable situation that everyone will experience once in their life.
The poem "Breakfast of Champions was quite confusing the first couple of times I had read it. After further reviewing the lines and comparing it to the others I had come to some conclusion. The tone of this poem is much more mellow compared to the others. When Dove writes, " a little dust on the laurel branch" she is writing about Demeter because gods or goddesses used to wear laurel wreaths on their heads. Demeter is much more content at what has happened to Persephone by the way she had "worked her way through pedals and sunlight" and how she will "dive into a grateful martini tonight." Demeter is not filled with hate but almost somewhat content that her daughter is gone. She also says, "Arise, it's a brand new morning!" This shows how she is no longer upset but trying to enjoy life.
Your interpretation is very interesting. I never think Demeter feels content with losing her daughter. However, I think this poem is more like Demeter overcome the sorrow due to loss of her daughter than just she feels content, because there are some lines that also sets depressed mood such as "...to find a place fit for mourning" or "...stones are what I sprinkle among the chaff." These lines throws darker tone between mellow lines, as you said. So I think Demeter has not completely overcame her sorrow but she is trying to do so.
When I first read poem "Wiederkehr" it was very hard to understand it. However, after re-read several times, I think that this poem might be about Persephone after she has kidnapped. "He" in the poem refers to Hades, who "only wanted me[Persephone] for happiness," and came up with this conclusion based on the tome of the poem and mythical motif in "Mother Love". In the poem Hades is described as who wants Persephone to not think and just receive his favor. Therefore, Persephone choose to leave when she has chance to do it. I interpreted this as oppression in American society and Dove's encouragement to resist against it. What Hades wants to Persephone is oblivious demonstrates male chauvinism. He kidnapped her for his pleasure and he never asks her opinion. When it says "I sat to hold the rain untouched inside me" I think it shows her sadness and grief that can't be cured. However, the poem also says ":when the choice appeared, I reached for it," which indicates Dove's encouragement to get out from this grief and resist against it. Also, wiederkehr means recurrence, or repetition. I think it shows both Persephone's repeated choice to leave as in the myth, and message that keep attempt to be free.
The poem that caught my eye was definitely "Party Dress for a First Born." Mainly because of the first line. "Headless girl so ill at ease..." This line is somewhat of an oxymoron because someone ill is usually not at ease. Trying to tie the whole poem into this first line was very confusing. But after reading Josiah's post of sexual interactions in this poem, it has somehow connected. At a deeper possibility, the first stanza may be talking of having sex with a man. "I know...what you're thinking of/ nothing..." I think this can relate to society thinking nothing of sex and instead just doing it. No repurcussions taken into account. This event possibly could have happened before a party since in the second stanza it says "when I step out, disguised in your blushing skin". Maybe the deed just happened. But the relation of the topic Mother Love into this is clear because the child or daughter has a secret with the mother, said in the last line "Stand up: it will be our secret". With that line being the end, I'm curious to ask what could the secret be? And the bigger question is, why is it called "Party Dress for a First Born"?
I found the poem "Party Dress for a First Born" most intersting to read out of the Mother Love poems. It has almost an eerie tone to it. Rita Dove begins by first writing " Headless girl so ill at ease on the bed, I know, if you could, what you're thinking of: nothing. I used to think that, too...". I found it very impactful how she describes the innocence of childhood here. The girl has no worries, cares, or thoughts and is going about life mindlessly. Then the mother's tone becomes cold and almost as if in regret of something, reminescing in the times when she, too, was innocent like that. The second stanza is where the poem becomes truly dark. The author starts to describe the dangers of men and it struck me as something that might be found in a horror movie. The emotion behind the description makes the reader instinctively think that something must have happened to make the mother so distrusting and hateful of men. The use of the flower symbol, once again, suggests that perhaps there may have been a time in the past where she was betrayed by men since the flower is generally used to refer to a woman's most deeply guarded gift. The use of the oxymoron of "elegant scissors" also reveals something about the nature of men in the narrator's eyes. They are elegant, smooth talkers on the outside, but on the inside they are wicked, crooked, and only seek to hurt. I found it very interesting how Rita Dove was able to incorporate this universal concept of human nature, that looks are deceiving, in such an intricate and subtle way into her poem. Overall, I think this poema had a very impactful message, leaving the reader with a sense of empathy for the mother as well as an eerie feeling that something will go wrong.
My first time reading through Exit, I was under the impression that the story being communicated was about take a brief vacation. This conclusion is supported in the repetition of 'reprieve' and the image of opening a door onto a street 'like in the movies.' Since the Mother Love poems have an emphasis on mythology, I analyzed Exit under the assumption that it was about Persephone's relationship with her mother. I found that the most insight came from the second stanza. "Here it's gray; the door to the taxicab waits. This suitcase, the saddest object in the world." The color imagery is a reference to the underworld. Since sad suitcases mean unwanted travel, these three lines imply that though Persephone gets to take a break and spend time with her mother, she is sad to leave the underworld. This makes sense when you take into consideration her age. At 16, being queen of anything sounds like a pretty good deal. I think Rita Dove wrote Exit in order to comment on the difficulties that mother daughter relationships go through when the daughter approaches womanhood.
When I started reading Sonnet in Primary Colors, because it was talking about Frida Kahlo, I thought it was going to be mainly about art. However, it turns out that Rita Dove also shows that Kahlo was a communist. She wore the "stern petticoats of the peasant", symbolizing the peasants of the communist revolution. The poem goes on to talk about plaster corsets, which Kahlo wore because her spine was weak. She painted them covered in various objects, including a hammer and sickle. This demonstrates both Frida's art and communism. Lastly, she speaks of Kahlo's "beloved dead" being Lenin, Marx, and Stalin, Lenin and Marx being communists and Stalin running a country communist in theory. All three of these people died before Kahlo did, so it is not an anachronism. The "hundred dogs panting like children" illustrates the poor Kahlo was sympathetic to. (Kahlo was, in fact, a communist.)
Although there is a possibility that the poem is associated with Communism ( similar to how some of the Mother Love poems are associated with rape), I thought this poem mainly addressed the appreciation of women. For instance, the use of imagery describing parrots remarks Kahlo portraying women as standing out from the peasants, or other people of society, due to their beauty. The "petticoats," as well as other pieces of imagery that depicted poverty, contrasted women from others in society. There is alliteration in addressing the celluloid butterflies and imagery in the graveled walks that address the importance and beautiful nature of women, and how they contrast from others in society. The "hundred dogs panting like children" addresses, once again, women's contrast from men in society. The last few verses address Kahlo's destructive marriage with her husband Diego Rivera, in which Rita Dove states that Rivera's faith to her was "a skull in the circular window of the thumbprint searing her immutable brow." The use of harsh diction such as the comparison of their love to a skull or "searing" implies that Kahlo's husband only cared about her looks and worked to change them instead of appreciate them. The "circular window" is Rivera's tunneled and narrow mindset in which he only cares about his wife's looks. As a result, I felt this poem meaning takes more of a feminist approach than a socioeconomic approach like Communism. Although Kahlo was a Communist and Rita Dove added references to the Communist symbol, poverty, Lenin, Marx, and Stalin, the poem mainly addresses feminism. Rita Dove could be addressing Communist leaders to exemplify the need to make women appreciated and equal to others in society, comparable to the needs to redistribute wealth to overworked laborers.
I didn't even see the poem in this perspective before i read your blog post. Well done. I do agree with Corvyn where I think it is about more than communism and that it pertains to women, but overall, this was a brilliant analysis.
When I read "Canary," I interpreted it as a reflection on how blacks and women stand through oppression and restriction by inventing new ways to change contemporary ideas. This poem is dedicated to Billie Holiday, a jazz singer from the Harlem Renaissance whose voice and deviation from contemporary styles forever influenced the growth of jazz. Jazz is typically written with stressed upbeats, while this poem is written mostly in trochaic meter. The deviation from regular jazz meter symbolizes Holiday's deviation from normal styles of jazz. Her voice is signified as "burned," signifying her raspy tone when she sang. The first stanza contains contradictory words such as "shadows" and "lights," "mournful" and "sleek," and "gardenia" and "ruined." The contrast between words represents Holiday's life, which ranged from prostitution and drugs to influential singing. These contrasts signify Holiday's fluctuating life. The second stanza further characterizes Holiday's negative life, as the first line characterizes her as "cooking" drugs, and the second line references her drug abuse with the euphoric effects of the "magic spoon and magic needle," or heroin. The fact that she "takes all day with her mirror and bracelet of song" exemplifies her addiction, as she repeatedly goes through life with drugs, living under depression by looking into a mirror. The stanza is in parentheses because Holiday is ensnared and trapped in her addiction to do drugs. The next stanza emphasizes that the rise of influential yet depressed black women such as Billie Holiday due to their "seige," or oppression, causes people to create more stereotypes about women and blacks. The last line is a direct statement to the reader, in which Rita Dove inspires people to be a "mystery" if they are oppressed. I translated "mystery" as something unknown which incites curiosity and interest in discovering the enigma, which I thought was the method in which people cope with their oppression. Sparking interest invokes power, which allows people such as Billie Holiday to be influential while enduring the negative parts of her life. Lastly, I felt the title, "Canary," is symbolic of oppression against blacks and women, similar to how a canary is trapped in a cage. Let me know if you all had similar interpretations.
I interpreted the poem pretty much exactly as you did, except for the last line, where Dove writes directly to the reader, "If you can't be free, be a mystery." I felt that this line called towards masking an individual's entrapment, but not necessarily calling attention to it. Creating a mystery to oppression may just hide that oppression, and while that could be a coping method, it can also serve to only amplify negativity, as it goes unexplored and grows because it is never called out. When I read this line I felt Dove was more saying how an individual should be a mystery and create their own freedom, becoming a mysterious unique instant, rather than passively waiting for someone else to unravel this mystery and oppression and solve it for you.
I also agree with your interpretation of the first two stanzas. However, I disagree strongly with your interpretation of the title. The title, "Canary", is a clear allusion to the phrase, "a canary in a coal mine", which is something relatively minor that is a warning of an impending disaster. Billie Holiday's death at the hands of addiction, and, indirectly, fame, were relatively uncommon in the 1950s, the last decade that she was alive. However, this would later become much more common in American society. Think of all the celebrities that have succumbed to drugs and fame: Robert Downey, Jr., Lindsey Lohan, Charlie Sheen, Britney Spears, Angelina Jolie, Michael Jackson, Kurt Cobain, Whitney Houston... Some of these celebrities were able to recover their careers (Downey, Jr., Jolie), some are still alive (Spears, Lohan), and some died in a hotel bathtub high on coke. Whitney Houston's death was especially similar to Holiday's, as both died of overdoses after public battles with addiction, and both were famous for their incredible vocal talent. Dove wrote this poem to warn against the dangers of celebrity, and that's what the title is a reference to--the imminent danger to our beloved public figures posed by fame and drugs that Holiday's death represented.
"Catherine of Alexandria" is an interesting poem, as it's premise consists of how restricted the opportunities were for women in the era she existed. "Deprived of learning and the chance to travel" is a good example of how proper education and freedom to migrate were barred from the opposite gender, so many of the women at this time became devoted to religion. Catherine of Alexandria is known for her very strong belief in Christianity and her ability to convert others, even after death. She was depicted in many forms of artwork, primarily around the late medieval era. She is known as a "great martyr" in the orthodox church, and many depictions of religious sacrifice. The poem's structure is different form the other poems: there is an indent on each 2nd and 4th line on each stanza, indicating the significance and structure of how religion was meant to be: a structured set of rules that have to be followed with no other interpretations. The lines "...but Jesus. His breath of a lily. His spiraling pain" was interesting as it juxtaposes the passiveness of his speech and his suffering into two separate fragment sentences. What do you think the significance of this poem is? Does the biographical context of the character in mind help understand the idea of the poem?
The biographical context of the character is what the poem is all about. I did some research and found that the Catherine that Rita Dove is referring to was sent to prison for converting to Christianity and denouncing Maxentius (the Roman Emperor at the time). Everyone she managed to convert, including Maxentius's wife, was sent to death. I think this poem is about Catherine's time in prison. The only part that doesn't seem to fit is the last stanza. "the nightshirt bunched above your waist- a kept promise, a ring of milk." A nightshirt bunched above a waist is a strong indication of sex. The reference to milk, however, made me think of motherhood. Perhaps this part would make more sense with a deeper understanding of Catherine's past. Anyways, I think Rita Dove wrote this poem because she admired Catherine's persistence in standing up for what she believed.
As i was reading "Primer" and getting feedback from other people as to what they though the poem represented, it helped me develop a deeper understanding of the poem . I think the poem really emphasizes the idea of body image at a young age. by Dove using imagery to describe certain characters in the poem, the physical characteristics show how people were judged on their appearance and that determined certain traits about them such as being skinny or short trying to make it sound like they are not very dominant people. There are multiple references to appearance involving size in this poem. Body image problems have been an ongoing problem for girls and boys. In the time period that this was written, there wasn't as much attention in the media on young girls and body image than there is today, but do you think body image and self-confidence issues were as bad as they are today?
After reading "Tou Wan Speaks to Her Husband, Liu Sheng", I had some interesting impressions. Just a little bit about Tou Wan, she was the wife of Liu Sheng, Prince of Zhongshan, of the Western Han dynasty. During this time period, marriages were not created because of love, but for political and financial reasons for the respective families. The problem in this is that Liu Sheng died, leaving Tou Wan a widow. It begins by stating, "I will build you a house of limited chambers but it shall last forever". This statement represents the love that Tou Wan has for her husband. She is telling him that she does not have much to give as far as love, but her love for him will be endless and will last forever, even beyond death. The poem continues and elaborates on various items that are entailed in this house that Tou Wan will give to her husband. These items are symbolic of the different aspects of her love that she will present to her husband throughout her life, even while he is dead.It states though, "but you're bored". This is telling the reader that even though Tou Wan is so good in the way that she treats her husband and how she loves him, he is still unappreciative of her and does not care for him in the same way that she does. Through this poem, Rita Dove is attempting to illustrate the role that women held during the conformist era during the 1950s. Like Tou Wan, women were not married because of love but, because they were socially obligated to. Regardless of how they treated their husbands, they were not appreciated and were considered inferior to their male counterparts. This poem is really symbolic of the lesser treatment that women have experienced throughout time and the problems that are associated with that.
Immediately when I glanced at the poem "Sonnet in Primary Colors", i counted the sentences out of habit. I found it peculiar that it was only 13 lines, when sonnets are only 14. Also, this poem had a weird rhyme scheme. There was two lines without rhyming, then two that rhymed at the end, followed by 3 that did not rhyme followed by two that did rhyme, followed by two that did not rhyme, and concluded with two that did rhyme. At this point I recognized that Rita must have named it Sonnet for a symbolic reason. In the first sentence, it describes a woman with a black wing perched over her eyes which made me immediately think of winged eyeliner. In the following sentences it talks about standing out. It talks about painting herself a present which also relates back to make up. This made me relate back to the primary colors in the title because those can be used in makeup to stand out. Towards the end when it says a hundred dogs are panting, I think that represents men wanting her. Overall, I feel is this poem is about a young woman who feels like she needs makeup in order to attract partners and stand out.
I also noticed that the "sonnet" only had thirteen lines. The rhyme scheme that it has made me categorize it as a Petrarchan sonnet, which makes sense because Rita Dove beings with "this is for the woman with one black wing perched over her eyes: lovely Frida..." Dove also uses animals, or references to animals throughout the poem: "one black wing perched over her eyes," "parrots," celluloid butterflies," and "dogs panting." This is no doubt a reference to the many animals she kept - spider monkeys, an Amazon parrot, numerous other birds, and dogs. I also thought that the "one black wing" referred to Frida Kahlo's unibrow - a significant and well-known characteristic that she displayed in all of her self-portraits - her "immutable brow." It seems that the persona in this poem is someone who adores Frida greatly - the hundred dogs panting like children are like hundreds of admirers, the portraits of political leaders arrayed at her footstead are shown as less important, or looking up to her, since she was an active communist herself. Thus, I think that Rita Dove uses "Sonnet in Primary Colors" to express adoration for a crippled woman still able to create beauty within the constant pain of everyday life.
That's a very interesting point Belinda. When I first read this poem, I had not made the connection between the dogs and admirers. I was confused on the significance of the historical figures mentioned in the context of the poem, but your interpretation makes a lot of sense. If the poem is in fact from the point of view of someone who adores her, then this could explain why Diego's love was referred to as a skull. To whoever is speaking, Diego is the thing standing between him and Frida. He wishes that Diego were gone, seeing his love with Frida as something that has died away and no longer exists.
I found the structure of this poem especially interesting because it involves more rhyme and a more consistent rhythm than most of Dove's sonnets, but its enjambment and missing line (as Belinda mentioned) create a sense of incompleteness that helps to complete the miniature biography of the mysterious Frida Kahlo. The two consecutive clauses at the beginning of the poem -- "in the stern petticoats of the peasant, who painted herself a present" both rhyme and contain similar syllable structure, suggesting Kahlo's inner confidence and search for balance. This uneven series of occasional couplets continues with "Beloved Dead"/"at the footstead" and "Diego's"/"window". Because these rhymes do not form a standard or consistent structure, it is possible that they represent the alternating periods of stability and insecurity in Kahlo's life -- regarding her health, her art, her love for Diego, etc. The fact that this sonnet contains only thirteen lines may refer to the fact that Kahlo's life could be considered incomplete due to her long periods of illness and early death at the age of 47. As a whole, this poem reminds the reader of the many facets and inconsistencies of Frida Kahlo's life by altering and shortening the traditional structure of the sonnet, just as Kahlo herself overcame many obstacles and defied the status quo through her art.
I agree completely with the fact that the poem is about her trying to cover up for something, but after reading about Frida Kahlo, I realized it wasn’t just about makeup like you said. She was involved in a serious bus crash and broke a majority of the bones in her body and remained in a full body cast for several months. Following the tragic accident, she never quite fully recovered and had relapses, forcing her to spend even more time in the hospital getting treated. I think the use of color like you said illustrates her trying to be portrayed differently (which is most likely why she did self-portraits). She doesn’t want to be seen as a crippled woman who could have once been beautiful. She wants to be seen like other women are seen by men, but the crash prevents that from happenings. So I believe, because of the history behind her life, that the poem is more about trying to make herself appear differently than she really does after the horrible crash.
The poem "Tou Wan Speaks to Her Husband, Liu Sheng" characterizes the relationship between husband and wife in ancient China, which generally involved the wife being obedient and subservient. However, I noticed that she writes each poem as a sort of tribute to the women mentioned. Little is actually known about Tou Wan, other than the fact that she and her husband were the first to have been discovered buried in jade suits, which were believed to keep the malignant flesh of a dead body contained while the spirit journeyed onward. Even though Tou Wan must cater to her husband, she is still portrayed as a strong character, who isn't unsatisfied with the nature of her relationship with her husband. She refers to him as "my only conqueror," and "my constant emperor," showing the formal way of speech used between them. The vivid imagery, and the allusion to the jade burial suits, show an undying love that Tou Wan has for Liu Sheng, and that she is willing to be a servant without any reciprocation of care. What's also interesting is that because she says "I will build you a house," which means that the "house" doesn't actually exist during this poem, and to extrapolate, it seems that Rita Dove is suggesting that the idea for the jade suits came from Tou Wan herself, showing that she had created something that lasted for centuries as well as became an important historical artifact. Tou Wan is shown to the audience as a woman who loves her husband endlessly, rather than a woman in suffering due to the way marriages functioned in ancient China.
I agree with you entirely Belinda, and I believe that you hit the nail on the head. I do wish to elaborate on the message that Dove is attempting to illustrate in writing this poem. I believe Dove is attempting to critique American society in the 1950s, in which women were subjected to treatment that was ill-deserved. Many women much like Tou Wan, who gave their husbands love and respect, were rejected and unappreciated in return. These women were not treated at all how they should, and in this poem, Rita Dove attempts to emphasize the pain that they felt during this terrible time in American history. Tou Wan gave her husband never ending love, even after death, and in return she received nothing but pain and suffering.
I have to disagree - nowhere does it mention in the poem Tou Wan's "suffering" or "pain." People tend to think that a type of marriage like the one Tou Wan and Liu Sheng had would be unhappy, but that's only because of the huge cultural differences between the United States and ancient China. Rather, it seems that Tou Wan is accepting of the role that she has been placed in as a result of a specific culture. I think that instead of criticizing the treatment of women in the 1950s, Rita Dove may have been trying to show us that some women accept or even willingly live the life that was advertised to them. Nowadays, we think of housewives in a bad light, or in terms of oppression or inequality, but we just as often neglect to remember that some people to like that lifestyle. Your interpretation of what Dove means to show her readers makes a lot of sense - in fact, more sense than mine does, but my personal interpretation of the poem, as well as the emotions and mood the poem incites for me, are completely opposite.
Belinda, I agree with your interpretation of Tou Wan's undying love and how it is represented by the allusion to the immortal jade suits. In addition to the allusion, I think Dove uses enjambment and the description of the house to represent this sort of never-ending love. The idea of the house, especially, with its "limited chambers" but everlasting lifespan, encompasses Tou Wan's concept of devoting an infinite amount of love within a finite amount of time. However, I have to agree with Jared in that Tou Wan's devotion was met with a very limited amount of appreciation. You argued that the poem never mentions "suffering" or "pain," however, seeing that the poem is in Tou Wan's point of view, her inability to acknowledge suffering may be Dove's way of conveying how her devotion was blind, not painless. Although I don't necessarily think that Liu Sheng was physically abusive, the poem clearly hints that he did little to appreciate his wife's devotion. In the third stanza, where Tou Wan boasts how expensive the two bronze jugs are, she trails off into the next stanza where she flatly states, "but you're bored." The use of a period makes this particular line stand out even more, since it contrasts with all the enjambment used everywhere else. This statement marks a significant and unexpected change in tone, from passion to displeasure. Tou Wan quickly changes back to her original tone, however at this point, it is already clear to the reader that despite her obvious display of abiding love, Tou Wan receives little gratitude from her husband.
Before I read Catherine of Siena, I looked up some background information on her, since the poem is on a historical figure, the same one referenced in the title. A few key facts I found was that Catherine of Siena is actually a saint, named one of the six patron saints of Europe by Pope John Paul II, notable for her political prowess and spiritual writings, all while being a woman in the 1300s. I thought iteself looked towards empowerment of women, as Catherine of Siena was a very powerful figure for women during her time, and the poem references her strength and deterministic ability, especially in the second to last line where it goes, "No one stumbled across your path". The poems also alludes to Catherine's influence, "you prayed until tears streaked the sky." This line is also significant with its imagery of tears in the sky, similar to a line preceding it, "the star-washed dome of heaven." The poem also includes elements of religion, specifically Christianity, referencing fate, heaven and prayer, which help to show the significance Catherine played for the Church. The last two lines also work to show how respected Catherine was and still is, "No one stumbled across your path. No one unpried your fists as you slept." No one stumbling across her path could mean that she led a very steady route and nobody who followed her could ever stumble, for it was so free to walk upon, but also that no one dared to stumble or cross paths with her robust writings. The last line interesting as well, no one unpried her fists as she slept, which I thought could be a reference as to how she was strong-willed and individualistic, accepting little assistance, but also how she never took a partner, thus being alone as she slept, exemplifying how a women does not need a man. Over, all I thought the poem was symbolic of Catherine's influences and embodied her impact as empowerment for women, especially during a time where women were regarded as inferior and lesser to men.
I found the poem "Sonnet in Primary Colors" most interesting out of this collection. I notived toward the beginning, the repetition of the letter "P" in "among the parrots in the stern petticoats of the peasant who painted herself a present". This gives the poem a sing song tone and almsot sounds like something out of a children's story. I found the line "wildflowers entwining the plaster corset" very interesting. It refers to Frida's largely immobile state in which she lay in bed in a cast after a terrible accident. The poem, however, portrays this as a beautiful thing. I think this is because this was the period of time in Frida's life when she was able to develop a lot of her artwork and passion for art. Also, the line "her spine lays in the romance of mirrors" refers to how, while her spine rendered her immobile, she found peace in making self portraits which she made while looking in a mirror. I also found Rita Dove's description of Frida's relationship with Diego Rivera in the line "Diego's skull in the circular window" very well chosen. This is because a lot of Frida's sorrow came from her troublesome relationship with Diego. This translates into the symbol of the skull which can represent how their love was something dark and toxic, something that would only cause them pain.
Rita Dove's "Tou Wan Speaks to Her Husband, Liu Sheng" is a first-person narrative from the point of view of an ancient Chinese king's wife; like many of Dove's "biographical" poems, it explores a historical era from a speculative female perspective, commenting on the nature of (often-overlooked) women's roles during that era. In this poem, the speaker, Tou Wan, describes the royal tomb that will be constructed for her husband after his death as "a house of limited chambers...hewn in the side of stone for you, my only conqueror." Dove's emphasis on the "limited" nature of the monument highlights a certain level of restrained resentment in the relationship between Tou Wan and Liu Sheng. The fact that Tou Wan addresses Liu Sheng (probably within her internal monologue) as "my only conqueror" further suggests a sense of bitterness and oppression -- it may also refer to Tou Wan's fidelity to her husband, who, according to historical accounts, was an ineffectual, hedonistic king who kept many concubines. In reference to Liu Sheng's distractions, Dove mentions "a statue of the palace girl you most frequently coveted" for "those times in your niche when darkness oppresses" -- this reminder may represent Liu Sheng's objectification of women and present a tantalizing symbolic punishment for his soul. I also noticed the unusual (considering the poem's focus on death) amount of positive nature imagery; Tou Wan describes life after her husband's passing into the afterlife with phrases like "the peaks...drenched in sun" and "long light and clouds over the earth". These images suggest that Tou Wan is, on some level, ready for the peace and personal freedom that will accompany her husband's death. Overall, the most striking aspect of this poem was the juxtaposition of Tou Wan's quiet, immediate anger with the majestic peace of Liu Sheng's tomb, a memorial made with bitterness rather than love.
Interestingly enough, in researching the lives of Tou Wan and Liu Sheng, I found out that their jade burial suits, as they're called, were discovered together in 1968; their tomb was considered much more extravagant than most royal burial chambers, so the discovery became somewhat well-known. Among the assigned poems, "Tou Wan Speaks to Her Husband, Liu Sheng" is the only one that focuses on a non-Western historical figure. It's clear from many of Dove's works that she has intended to reimagine male-dominated history from a feminist viewpoint, but why do you think she chose this particular subject? Was she simply inspired by the mystery of the archaeological discovery, or is there another reason?
Rita dove definitely chose to create poem to describe how social norms from the ancient Chinese empire can still be seen in Rita Dove's time. Tou Wan was involved with forced marriage, a tradition done by much of the nobility in that time period. Most of these relationship arrangements were used to connect ties to various dynasties or, unfortunately, a bribe to ease feuding clans. It might not be as extreme in today's circumstances, but the premise of women being an object can still be seen today. A Male-dominant society has always been the norm, and Rita Dove uses the art of poetry to convey the idea from the opposite gender. Notice how almost all of Rita Dove's Historical Figures poems are written in a woman's perspective.
“Sonnet in Primary Colors” was an interesting look into how Rita Dove balances her admiration of Frida Kahlo with her disapproval of communism. Dove’s admiration for Frida Kahlo is evident by the way she describes Kahlo in this poem, calling her “lovely” and “erect among parrots”. This second description elucidates Dove’s reasoning behind her rejection of communism. Dove dislikes communism because of the way it diminishes the uniqueness of individuals, and Dove, at heart, is an individualist. This is why Dove loves Frida Kahlo; Frida Kahlo is the definition of an individual. It is the uniqueness of Frida Kahlo, her “black wing/ perched over her eyes,” that makes her such a great figure in Dove’s eyes. However, Kahlo’s communist affiliations are what Dove has written this poem about. The intersection of Kahlo’s individualism and communism is like trying to blend oil and water together: an ultimately fruitless endeavor. Dove writes of this, “Each night she lay down in pain and rose/ to her celluloid butterflies… Lenin and Marx and Stalin arrayed at the footstead/ And rose to her easel, the hundred dogs panting.” Dove does not view these communist leaders favorably, hence her metaphor comparing them to “panting dogs”. She sees Kahlo as too good for communism, and the dog metaphor diminishes the humanity of the communists while making Kahlo seem even more powerful in comparison to them. This power comes from her ability to be herself, something the communist leaders lack. In “Sonnet in Primary Colors”, Dove shows her admiration of Frida Kahlo’s individualism and her rejection of communism through the use of metaphors and imagery.
I definitely agree with your interpretation of "Sonnet in Primary Colors". I think that Dove's purpose was to focus on individualism, and she used the uniqueness of Kahlo as an example. The quote about "black wings perched over her eyes" exemplifies the strange and unique style of Kahlo's paintings, which always depicted her with thick black eyebrows. I also agree that the part about "panting dogs" is a jab at the communist leaders, which makes it clear that Dove is against communism. I also think that the title shows this very well. I think that the purpose of "primary" in the title is to represent the strictness of communism, which limits individuality, whereas the use of "colors" shows the creative and unique side of Kahlo.
The first time I read the poem Catherine of Siena, I did not have any historical background information on the figure, I just wanted to see what kind of interpretation I got from reading the poem without any prior background information. As I read the poem I looked at it not only in the figuratively but also in a literal way. In the first stanza, I looked at it as someone who is a lonely and was searching for someone to love. During their journey they experienced an obstacle which is represented by the Boulder. When it says "you struck the Boulder at the roadside/ since fate has doors everywhere. Under the Star-washed dome/ of heaven warm and dark." I thought of it as someone who what is on their way to look for someone to love when then they got in a crash of some sort and died and went to heaven. In the second stanza when it says "...on cedar/ shelves back home in your/ father's shop you prayed/ until tears streaked the sky.", I thought of it as someone who died and prayed that their family would be alright without them and that when the "tears streaked the sky", that is when the family finds out and it crying and mourning for the loss of someone. In the last line when it says "no one unpried your fists as you slept.", I got an immediate image in my head of someone laying in a coffin in a funeral with their arms in fists as they "slept". Again, this was my interpretation of the poem before getting background information. After doing research, I looked at the poem more as a power statement about woman, and the poem demonstrates that woman can be independent, and dominant figures in society. For example when it says "no one stumbled across your path", I thought of that line as illustrating that there was a strong woman and no one would get in her way or "stumble across her path". I believe that you can look at this poem from multiple perspectives.
You have a very strong interpretation that has good insight and application of the poem. However, I had researched prior to reading the poem and found a different interpretation of it about Catherine of Siena's death. Her biography states that Catherine had been consistently fasting claiming it was an uncontrollable illness of hers. Her "illness" could be described in the poem as "the boulder" which leads her to her fate, death. The boulder in the poem is what strikes her similar to her fasting problem. The poem then describes her being "Under the star-washed dome of heaven" also referencing a near death or closeness heaven. Catherine may also have been recalling her childhood as she was aware of her illness, shown through the quote, "the woolens stacked on cedar shelves back home in your fathers shop." Then as the poem describes her as "prayed until tears streaked" and "No one stumbled across your path," it represents her prayers for God to heal her illness, which caused tears, and the lack of help received from people for her issue and her slow but inevitable death.
After reading "Tou Wan Speaks to Her Husband, Liu Sheng," I was able to make several observations. First, I noticed how Tou Wan is speaking to her husband, who is already. I concluded this in the fourth stanza where Dove said, "Here when the stench of your own diminishing drives you to air..." It is common knowledge that after a person dies, as their body decays, it begins to smell within a short amount of time. Also, I observed how Tou Wan is trying to speak to his spirit and prove that no matter what she is there for him. She explains how he meant the world to him and he is "my only conqueror." Not only does this poem represent their eternal relationship, but it also uses imagery to describe the tomb that she has prepared for Liu Sheng. I believe that when she's describing the rooms and areas of the "house," it's actually describing the architecture of their tomb. I've come to this conclusion based on my research of the historical figures. Although there wasn't much information on Tou Wan, it was know that the tomb had a "house like construction," which was built to imitate the outside world. Lastly, this poem speaks about "the journey." This is a reference to the journey that it will take for Liu Sheng to reach the afterlife. I believe this because he was a prince, and any higher power in Chinese or Asian culture tends to have a strong relationship with a higher power.
I totally agree with out interpretation. I think Tou Wan definitely talk to his dead husband, and it is also explained in the part where it says "and for your body... a suit to keep the shape of your death..." However, I think Dove probably wanted to focus on Tou Wan's suffering from serving her dead wife than their eternal love. In ancient China, wives should not left their husband even if they are dead. I think Dove also reflected this fact int his poem because essentially this poem is all about what Tou Wan would do to his dead husband. There are not many parts that talk about their love. So what I think is that while it is a love poem of Tou Wan, Dove also wanted to focus on suffering of women who left and had no choice but serve for him even after he is dead,if it makes any sense...
I find your interpretation to be very interesting! I agree with the idea of Tou Wan constantly wanting to show the spirit of her dead husband that she still is there for him. What interested me about your take on the poem though, was the idea of the house Tou Wan speaks of actually being a tomb. I wonder though, whether Tou Wan is more waiting for her afterlife to be with her husband, or if she believes herself to have died with him?
Yea Seul, now that I have read your interpretation, I have to agree with your perspective on their relationship. I agree that when you look further into the poem, it doesn't speak much of their love, and it could represent her suffering. Thanks for sharing, I wouldn't have thought this if it wasn't for you!
I also agree with your interpretation. The first time that I had read this poem, I did not think the house was his tomb, only just a house. After I had looked at it again, I noticed the mentioning of jade. When I was looking up Tou Wan, the website had said that their tomb was one of the first jade tombs. That is when I discovered how much the poem related to the afterlife. I had noticed that she was describing her husband going through all of the different rooms. These rooms started to become progressively more darker and related to the stages of afterlife. I thought that it was her speaking to her dead husband because he is the only one being described as going through this journey and not them together.
I think irony on "Nestor's Bathtub" is very interesting. Essentially this poem is talking about Nestor and his wife, who suffered from hard labor to support him. However, his achievement ruined their house. It is clear that destroyed house was his fault, at least in the poem because it says "look how they fell, blasted by the force of olive oil exploding in the pot..." which illustrates oil explosion was the reason their house was ruined and the olive oil jar symbolized his achievement. However, in the last stanza it describes that the bathtub, which is Nestor's possession, is the only item left in the ruin. It is very ironical because while his wife, who supported Nestor in their house lost everything, Nestor's possession, or his legend is standing there. I think what Dove wanted to critique in the poem is how myths and legend were based on male chauvinism and brings out unspoken stories of women who supported men.
Admittedly, I myself do not know more than the basics of a communistic style government, so it came as a surprise to me when reading Sonnet in Primary Colors, that this was the poem that seemed the clearest to me. The first thing I noticed though, was that this proclaimed "sonnet" was actually not a sonnet at all, it presented only 13 lines. I found this very odd until I read the poem and its view towards communism. From the line when Frida, "rose to her easel, the hundred dogs panting." I found this to be a dig towards the communistic view point. The use of a dog as a literary device generally depicts a blind devotion such as how a puppy may wish to please their owner. This subservient nature also seemed to be aimed towards the entirety of the communist population. It brings up the idea that one is on top, while the others are all below, all of them equal, all of them the same. The references to, "one black wing", and "wildflowers entwining the plaster corset" give off the idea that not everything is as it seems. A corset is a medieval mold to form the wearer into the idea of a perfect body. The process itself, is actually very painful. The use of wildflowers, is almost used to mask the bad, to hide its undesirability so others will remain willing. Also, "one black wing" reminded me of the yin and the yang, all of the good, and all of the bad. Even though for everything bad, there is good, the tone of this poem seemed to try to bring out the negative, or the one black wing. Reiterating on the idea of this "sonnet" being only 13 lines, off of own personal interpretation, I believed it to be a sense of irony. Using the idea that shows how all the communistic people are equal, and even the same, the poem itself is very different. This thirteen line sonnet, would not fit in with that of fourteen lined ones. I wonder if this is Rita Dove's way of showing her discontent with this idea of everyone fitting in a mold? I'd love to hear some of your guys' take on that.
The poem that stuck out to me most was "Catherine of Alexandria". Similar to Alexis's previous comment, I noticed a strong sexual context throughout the poem. Starting in the second stanza, Dove writes, "in your bed- and what went on each night was fit for nobody's ears but Jesus'." This quote could be interpreted in many ways, however I interpreted it as Catherine having some sort of sexual encounter with herself. This seems to be a strong sex reference that continues to the fourth stanza, stating, "the nightshirt bunched above your waist." Dove, using strong sexual context and imagery, is depicting a different image of Catherine of Alexandria that contrasts her sainthood. However, the sexual references also emphasize her single relationship with God and Him being her only lover. The poem also says, "a kept promise, a ring of milk." The promise described here is Catherine's vow to be married to God. In Catherine's biography, it discusses how strongly Catherine believed in marriage to God and no one else, which even caused her death from refusal to marry the Roman Emperor. The ring of milk, could be another sexual symbol. Overall, I believe Rita Dove wrote about Catherine of Alexandria in sexual context and imagery to create a contrast to her saintly being and emphasize her relationship with God. Did anyone else notice the string sexual references or interpret them differently?
When I first read the poem, "Catherine of Siena," I did not know what it was about. After I analyzed the poem, I thought it represented what the people around her saw when she walked down the street, no one wanting to touch her because she was such a holy saint. I noticed that there were no words that rhymed with each other and I thought of this meaning that the poem was very serious and had an important meaning because of this. After I read the poem some more, I thought that the poem was her speaking after she had died. I thought this because of the last two lines in the last stanza, "No one stumbled across your path. No one unpried your fists as you slept." I found out that after she had died her body was not disturbed for a very long time, that is one of the reasons that I thought this poem was of her dead. I also noticed that the words used were dark, which I also connected to death because death is dark and not very many happy words are used to describe someone's death.
When reading the poem “Canary” the first thing that caught my attention was Dove’s title choice. An English idiomatic expression “A caged canary will sing”, depicts Billie Holiday and her agonizing life. A canary in a cage, when lacking company and attention, will spend his time announcing his presence to the world through song. I believe the troubled jazz singer expressed her voice through music. In the beginning of the poem, Dove refers to Holiday’s “burned voice”. This is the insinuation that her voice was ruined by the heroin that she had done throughout in her life. The quote “Now you’re cooking drummer to bass, magic spoon, magic needle…” is in parenthesis because the music industry was unaware of her abhorrent heroin use. Dove refers to her “signature gardenia under that ruined faced”. Holiday wore a gardenia in her hair for every performance. One night, she was curling her hair for a show and burned it. One of her fellow performers went to get her a flower to cover it. Holiday said she had never felt more beautiful and wore it every time she sang. The gardenia was a distraction to hide her face that was not full of peace and contentment, rather full of self-destruction and heartache. The poem also refers to Holiday’s “bracelet of song”. Ironically, the word bracelet is slang for handcuffs. Billie was arrested for illegal use of narcotics and was handcuffed to her hospital bed when she died. The last line of the poem “If you can’t be free, be a mystery” is alluding to the reality that Billie Holiday never felt free of her erratic past of abandonment and prostitution. To be a mystery, suggests one must wear a mask to appear unaffected by the past or present surroundings. Billie Holiday’s continued use of illegal drugs was used to mask the pain of her past.
I think you have an excellent intrepretation of this poem. Before reading your insight, I only understood how the poem referenced Billie Holiday and how she was an addict. Clearly you did lots of research and were able to connect lots of the poem to her life. I also found it intresting how you explained how the bird will sing if it's lacking attention. This is very clear and I'm happy that I can understand this poem better now! Thanks Tyler.
I agree with Brooklyn aswell. I was hoping that somebody would blog in detail about this poem because I was very confused on what a couple of specific things meant. For example I really liked your explination of the Gardenia in her hair. At first when I read the poem I didnt understand why the gardenia was "under" her ruined face, but when I looked at your explination and the research that went with it I realized that she used it as a way to cover up her unhappiness. Over all good job in your connections with the research and the poem.
when i first read the poem i had no knowledge that she was an addict. my first though was that she was a singer that was used to bring joy to others but was never free to be a singer on her own. my first thought was that her songs allowed her to be heard and brong joy to others, but like a songbird, she was caged by others and had to bend to the will of others and sing for them instead of being free. your interpretation is wonderful and has brought a new understanding and different thoughts to my mind
While color marking and annotating the Historical Figure poems, I realized that, after I had researched Catherine of Alexandria, I had compared her life to the Tou Wan Speaks to Her Husband, Liu Sheng. So instead of taking notes on that poem while thinking about the history behind the wife of a Chinese prince of the Western Han dynasty, I was comparing to the life of Saint Catherine. Even though these two historical figures are not very closely related, or so I don’t think, there were a remarkable number of similarities between the two. In the poem that’s supposed to be about the Chinese wife, I noticed that it could fit Saint Catherine talking to Christ, her lover. Conqueror and emperor are sued several times to describe the person being talked about, and since Christ was the only person more beautiful than Catherine and he was whom she lost her virginity to, I thought that she could be speaking to Christ, not the Chinese wife speaking to her husband. The house of limited chambers spoken of in the beginning that shall last forever is a building for Christ that she would build. It would be like the one she was built following her death at the command of emperor Maxentius. Also, the hunters pursuing an animal could symbolize all the men who wanted to be with Saint Catherine because she was so beautiful. The animal is described as sacred, like Saint Catherine was. What this all illustrates is that, although the historical figures themselves aren’t related, the way in which Rita Dove portrays them in her poems shows that they are. Most of them suffered a tragic accident early on in life which shaped the way they lived the rest of it and this is brought up in a majority of the poems. It’s interesting to me how the only way I stumbled this idea was messing up my work and interpreting a poem in a somewhat incorrect way. I’m still upset though that I need to redo both the poem Catherine of Alexandria and Tou Wan Speaks to Her Husband, Liu Sheng.
Just like Abby I interpreted the poem “Catherine of Siena” from the perspective of her already being dead. Throughout the whole poem Rita Dove wrote about her as if she was summing up her life and talking to her in heaven, and since she was a saint it would only make sense for her to end up in heaven after her life. In the first line when she states, “You walked the length of Italy to find someone to talk to”, I connected this to the great journey that she took throughout her life. On this journey, she spread her views of God with all of the people she met along the way. Also I believe that in the line “You struck the boulder at the roadside…” refers to all of the hardships that she faced in her life. When researching I found that she had tried very hard to get the pope back from France and return him to Italy, and with this, I believe that this was the bump in the road for her. When she noticed the bump, she saw the opportunity that arose from it and decided to attempt at returning the pope back, which in the end turned out to be in her favor. In the next line, Dove talks about St. Catherine’s life on earth but then refers to her “praying until tears reached the sky”, and with this my interpretation was that she felt that she would be better if she were to be in Heaven with God. Therefore St. Catherine prayed over and over until she eventually made her way up to heaven. In the last two lines it says, “No one stumbled across your path. No one unpried your fists as you slept”, and for me this meant that nobody objected her decision to leave the earth to be with God and nobody tried to stop her from praying for this because they knew that this was what she wanted. Lastly the emphasis of her sleeping in the last line was what led me to believe that she was indeed dead and that Rita was telling her how she arrived in heaven.
I agree with you completely, Cassie. This poem seems to be told after Saint Catherine has died. The line “You walked the length of Italy” is reference to both her journey of life and the actions she took in her life, traveling and spreading the word of god. Additionally, I agreed that the line about the boulder referenced the struggle she overcame in her life. In addition to her attempts to wanting to move the pope back to Italy, she had siblings die and was almost forced to marry her sisters widower, a man she did not like. Lastly, although I like your interpretation of the last two lines, I interpreted something different. I felt those two lines were meant to illustrate Catherine’s perseverance; she overcame any obstacles and subsequently achieved greatness.
The poem in Historical Figures that struck me as most interesting was "Nestor's Bathtub". At first read, the poem seems to be about the over indulgence and possible adultery of Nestor's wife. However, as I analyzed the poem further my interpretation changed. I believe that the first stanza of this poem is about the labor of Nestor's wife in the bath of Nestor, the second about the destruction of Nestor and his wife's home, and the final about the remains of their home. When I first read "Nestor's wife was the one to crouch under jug upon jug of fragrant water poured until the small room steamed", I interpreted it as Nestor's wife having the fragrant water poured on herself. However, after rereading, I think that this quote is actually about Nestor's wife crouching under the pots in order to pick them up. This stanza also tells of how Nestor's wife scrapes the dirt from "a lover's back" (which may or may not be Nestor's). Both of these quotes convey images of labor, and how Nestor's wife worked hard while he was away at the Trojan wars. In the second stanza, which is about the destruction of Nestor's home by fire, Dove writes "jars spilled from the second floor, oil spreading in flames to the lady's throne". This is interesting to me, as it talks about Nestor's wife's throne rather than his. This is to show that everything that distinctly belonged to Nestor's wife was destroyed in the fire. In the final stanza, it is stated that one of the only things to remain after the fire was the bath, which is strangely described as "voluptuous". I think the purpose of this is to make the bath seem more feminine, as it was used more often by Nestor's wife than by himself. I think this poem is about how, despite the fact that what's left of the house was used more by Nestor's wife, it's still remembered as "Nestor's Bathtub", as shown by the title. This shows a certain dominance of man in history and how we remember the past events of our history.
As I was reading through the poems assigned for homework, one in particular stood out to me. Because Frida Kahlo is one of my all time favorites, I knew right away that "Sonnet in Primary Colors" is about her. Before analyzing the poem, it is important to know a bit of background information on Frida. She spent her whole life in Mexico City. A bus accident that broke her spine, collarbone, ribs, pelvis, right foot and leg, and shoulder rendered he immobile for 3 months. During that time she began to paint and didn't stop until she died in 1954 at the age of 47. Her favorite thing to paint is herself because she is "so often alone and because I am the subject I know best." Haled as an icon for female creativity, Kahlo is loved modern day feminists because her work is honest; Fridah never fails to leave out her signature unibrow (“the woman with one black wing perched over her eyes.”). Shortly after the accident she was married to fellow communist and painter, Diego Rivera. From what I gathered from the poem, Rita Dove admires Kahlo for all of the same reasons that everyone else does; she was a strong and creative female in a time where something like that was unheard of. In the line “who painted herself a present--wildflowers entwining the plaster corset her spine resides in the romance of mirrors,” ‘plaster corset’ refers to the cast Frida undoubtedly had to wear post accident. The fact that she painted herself in it shows a confidence and acceptance not many have. Dove also commented on her political beliefs. “celluloid butterflies of her Beloved Dead, Lenin and Marx and Stalin arrayed at the footstead.” Celluloid is a tough, highly flammable substance consisting of cellulosenitrate and camphor, and is used in the manufacture of motion-picture and x-ray film. I interpreted ‘celluloid butterflies’ in this line as Kahlo’s passionate views on communism. Frida was creative, passionate, and stuck to her beliefs, something that Dove admired enough to write a poem about. My interpretation of this may be skewed by my already biased opinion on Frida, did anyone take it in the opposite direction?
Alexis, I agree with you. The sonnet has the theme of strong admiration of Frida Kahlo, a beautiful woman who stands out from other peasants with her paintings. The persona uses imagery to describe a "lovely Frida"...."in stern petticoats". The beauty portrayed by the persona is a strong admiration of her although she is mourning the loss of "her Beloved Dead". I think the loss that this poem is referencing is the two miscarriages that she had with her husband. Great interpretation of this poem.
I had never thought of this poem in this way before, but I now agree with you. The use of communism in your interpretation was quite interesting and it makes sense considering Stalin and Marx and Lenin are mentioned in the poem. But what I want to know is why? What was so important about incorporating communism into the poem? My guess is that Dove thinks of communism as a system that can become out of control or dangerous, just like celluloid catching on fire. I also agree with you that Dove wrote this in admiration of Kahlo and how she was so influential to women, showing that no matter what you look like you can still be confident enough in yourself to be beautiful. Men admired her for that and I think Dove was attempting to tell women to do exactly that to be happy in their own skin.
upon reading Nestor's bathtub for the first time, i had the thought that Rita Dove was criticizing his wife. in mythology there are many stories told about great fighters that would take slave women from the place they were trying to conquer. these women would replace their wives that were alone back at home. in the poem, "hid wife with her white hands scrape the dirt from a lover's back with a bronze scalpel" creates the image that his wife was sneaking around behind Nestor's back. this is different from the original stories that tell of the husband cheating on the wife. in every stanza, Rita Dove starts it with a line about legends. i believe Rita did this to make a point that legends are not always true and that each legend changes over the years and new version is said each time the legend is repeated. Rita Dove also mentions the importance of olive oil. with the greeks, the number of jars of oil would show their wealth. Rita Dove makes a point that wealth can be good but can also be the reason for the destruction of ones life. in the poem, Rita writes "blasted by force of olive oil exploding in the pot" which shows her point in how deadly wealth can be. the title helps support Rita's view on that women are not as loyal and innocent as many stories portray them as. the poem says that only the bathtub stands which is where Nestor's wife would bathe Nestor in oil. that bathtub was more likely also use to bathe her lover's that visited while her husband was away. having the bathtub be one of the only surviving objects help portray Rita Dove's thoughts that women are just as wicked and disloyal as men.
I also noticed the motif of oil and wealth throughout this poem.Though I believe they were used for a different effect. The items that were left after the destruction of Nestor's home were belongings that would typically be found in the homes of the wealthy. For example, the bathtub, jars of oil and the thousands of cups. I believe that Rita Dove was trying to convey that people are only remembered for the things they left behind; like the ruins in Greece that still stand today. No one in this world is remembered if they do not leave some sort of impression on their environment. In this case Nestor's impression was his bathtub and the fire that burned the home surrounding it to the ground.
I feel the drugs have a major significance in this poem as well. The "burned voice" may have been caused by drugs. The "ruined face" also comes about from the use of cigarettes, which were popular in that time period. "Cooking" can refer to a lot of things, most likely the making of drugs, although it could also refer to smoking them. The "magic needle" refers to drugs being injected into the body. All of this leads to Holiday being a "mystery", too far lost in drug addiction to bring back.
While reading the poems in the collection, Historical Figures, "Catherine of Alexandria" stood out to me the most. The first line of the poem describes Catherine as "Deprived of learning" after doing some research I found that Catherine was a scholar and a princess. From this I determined that Catherine was not deprived of learning in the traditional sense. It would not make sense for her to be deprived of knowledge in social situations either due to her standing in society. After reading Olivia's post and learning that Catherine was betrothed to a roman prince it made even more sense that Catherine would have lacked sexual knowledge in the time period she was alive. Her father would have also wanted her to remain pure so that her husband could not return her to her family if he did not want her. In Rita Dove's poem "Catherine of Alexandria", a woman takes control of the one aspect of her life available to her through masturbation.
The poem that stood out to me the most from Historical Figures was Canary. This poem was inspired by the life of famed jazz singer Billie Holiday, highlighting the obstacles she faced in her life. In the first stanza, Dove uses opposite imagery to convey the demons Holiday faced. The juxtaposition of shadows and lights indicates that Holiday felt the memories of her troubled past in her success; she was in the dark even during happy times. Additionally, the comparison of mournful and sleek demonstrates Holiday’s haunted mind inside a glamorous exterior. Furthermore, the negative diction of “ruined face” in the fourth line shows Dove’s belief that one cannot escape there past; its scars will stay with a person forever. The next stanza is interesting because it is in direct relation to Holiday’s legal troubles. During a time of success, Holiday was arrested for using narcotics. This is referenced when Dove wrote, “(Now you’re cooking, drummer to bass, / magic spoon, magic needle” . Through first line of the second stanza, “(Now you’re cooking, drummer to bass,” Dove illustrates that even with music in her life to help her move past her issues, she still is using drugs. The next line, “, / magic spoon, magic needle” indicates that the narcotics were powerful to Holiday; they provided a “magical” escape to her past that haunts her. In the third stanza, Dove uses consonance of the “s” sound. This sound is very prolonged yet sharp. By using the consonance of “s”, Dove illustrates that Holiday still feels the effects of her past and these effects are still severe. Additionally, by writing, “Fact is, the invention of women under siege/ has been to sharpen love in the service of myth” Dove illustrates that Holiday and women from the same circumstances feel attacked from all sides and feel like objects. The last line, in my opinion seems to be a reference to the title of the poem, Canary. Canaries in many cases are caged birds, but are also very valuable. By using this title, Dove illustrated that inside, Holiday had extreme worth; she was talented and a good person. Her inner value was held in by the cage, which, in this case, would be Holiday’s rape, prostitution, and drug and alcohol abuse. The last line of the poem, “if you can’t be free, be a mystery.” references this title. The title shows that Holiday was not free throughout her adult life. Dove seems to be suggesting that if a person cannot escape his or her past, hide it from his or herself and others to try and get past the issues that restrain the person.
I had never thought of this poem in this way before, but I now agree with you. The use of communism in your interpretation was quite interesting and it makes sense considering Stalin and Marx and Lenin are mentioned in the poem. But what I want to know is why? What was so important about incorporating communism into the poem? My guess is that Dove thinks of communism as a system that can become out of control or dangerous, just like celluloid catching on fire. I also agree with you that Dove wrote this in admiration of Kahlo and how she was so influential to women, showing that no matter what you look like you can still be confident enough in yourself to be beautiful. Men admired her for that and I think Dove was attempting to tell women to do exactly that to be happy in their own skin.
The poem that I found interesting to read was Rosa. This is a strong piece of history about a courageous, African American woman who initialed a new era in the crusade for equal rights. In the first line of this poem “How she sat there” is a very powerful opening. Dove is really trying to get the reader to feel that moment when Rosa Parks was told to give up her seat on a bus to a white person. In the following line “the time right inside a place”, the time is referring to 1955. This verse is essentially saying the time (in history) was right and so was the place. This event took place in Alabama where racial segregation was higher than any other place. This supports the last line of this stanza. Dove says “so wrong it was ready”. “So wrong” is referring to racial segregation and “it was ready” is referencing that Alabama was ready to have someone stand up for civil rights. The next stanza starts off by saying “That trim name”. I believe that Dove is referring to Rosa Park’s name as being a simple, short name. The enjambment line goes on to say “with its dream of a bench to rest on”. Rosa Parks is being referred to as “it” and her dream is that all people will have equal rights. She was refusing to get up from a bus bench, so this dream of hers was going to rest on the bench that she was refusing to give up. Another line that stood out to me was the first line of the third stanza, “Doing nothing was the doing”. Dove is referring to “nothing” as Parks not moving and refusing to give her seat to a white person. This action was the “doing” that changed the way Americans live today.
I completely agree with your interpretation. The structure and word choice used by Dove really illustrates how powerful the simple action committed by Rosa Parks was. One line that stood out to me was where Dove wrote, "…when they bent down to retrieve her purse. That courtesy.” Picking up Rosa's purse shows courtesy in the wrong context. If the statement had been written about a white woman, it would be considered true, however since this is to Rosa Parks, it shows obvious sarcasm. The white police are the opposite of courteous throughout this time in history. Ending the poem with sarcasm is very powerful in the sense that it elicits the reader to truly see the lack of morals and mixed up priorities the Americans had at the time.
Olivia, I like your interpretation of that last line. I had a different interpretation of the line “How she stood up when they bent down to retrieve her purse. The courtesy.“ I felt Dove was referring to Rosa Parks being the one who stood up as black men bent down to pick up her purse for her when she was being arrested. This was a courteous act of these gentlemen, as if to say thank you for fighting for our rights. Did any one else interpret this line a different way?
i agree with your interpretation and i also noticed that Rita Dove wrote the first and third stanze in the same structure or three lines with an end-stop of some punctuation at the end of the first line and a period at the last line of the two stanzes. the second and fourth staqnze also mirror eachother with the last sentences having a pause in the middle by using a period and the following sentence of that line is short. why do you think Rita Dove wrote it that way?
The poem "Lady Freedom Among Us" epitomizes and exemplifies non-conformist attitudes and desires to break away from traditional norms of society. For instance, Dove implements plenty of "S" and "th" consonance sounds, as demonstrated in the lines, "having assumed the thick skin of this town its gritted exhaust its sunscorch and blear...". To the reader, this creates a tone of sententiousness and pretension, demonstrating the author's advocated attitude of breaking away from traditions to create independent mindsets. Dove further conveys her sententious tone by implementing double spaces instead of commas in natural pauses, symbolizing her attitude straying away from traditional grammatical rules to provide emphasis or create lists. There are further grammatical errors in the lack of capitalized letters, further exemplifying the attitude of independence. Dove switches to commanding voice in the fifth and eighth stanzas to emphasize that she addresses all readers' conformist mindsets. Her excessive use of " don't" conveys a message that the reader should trash his/her prevailing notions of society and break away from tradition, further expressing a tone of pompousness. Dove descrives , in stanza three, a woman "with old fashioned sandals...leaden skirts...stained cheeks and whiskers and heaped-up trinkets..." The imagery prevalent in stanza three reminds the reader of a misfit and independent in society, who can be well-praised for bringing old styles back to social popularity. Thus, Dove exhibits praise for these types of women, which is confirmed from the verse, "crown her in the sky..." Lastly, Dove implements irony in statements such as "consider her drenched gaze her shining brow...its gritted exhaust its sunscorch...she rests in her weathered plumage..." A drenched gaze filled with depression contrasts from a shining brow of effervescence, and a person typically would not wear plumage in scorching heat. As a result these pieces of irony demonstrate how the woman in question breaks away from traditional trains of thought, conveying the superiority of an independent mind. Overall, the poem creates empathy and advocation towards independent minds and breaks from traditional cultures, were main factors guiding the civil rights movement.
I feel that "Lady Freedom Among Us" shows how America wants people to conform to society. The part "all of you" shows that Americans are clumped together to receive liberty and are seen as the same. The phrase "one of the many" illustrates how an American is just one of the many people and is nothing special or extraordinary, while "she is each of us" implies that this is what all Americans are like and that they are the same. This brings a highly conformist message that states that someone who isn't like Lady Liberty is not a true American.
While reading the poem "The situation is intolerable" I noticed how the last lines of the first and third stanzas seem like them come straight out of Christian prayers. "in the name of the Lord..." and "O mercy on our souls,". This made me think of southern african american pastors during this time period. During the time of the civil rights movement many african american people felt safest in their churches and a lot of information about marches and demonstration were past by word of mouth in church. In the second stanza dove writes, "all around us dark and the perimeter in flames," The imagery in this line reminded me of a scene from the movie The Butler when the main character's son is a freedom rider and his bus is attacked by white supremacists. This connection is extremely interesting to me because the poem "Freedom Riders" is just across the page from it. The poem uses a prayerful way of speech that reminds me of a pastor speaking to his congregation which led me to believe that this poem in written in Martin Luther King Jr.'s point of view. In Rita Dove's poem "The situation is intolerable" Dove uses imagery and language to create a prayerful effect.
I also noticed this in the poem. I feel as if they are praying and asking God what they deserved to be treated so poorly. Although I haven't seen The Bulter, I believe that this is a good connection to the poetry. Also, to add on to your thinking, I think the last line "O yes. O mercy on our souls," could be a prayer, but also some type of religious hymn. I feel as if those words would be something I would sing during church. Overall I agree with your interpretation and I like how you made a connection to the movie!
I really liked that you interpreted this from Martin Luther King Jr's perspective. I had not thought of it this way but I totally think that it makes sense. I thought of the line about the flames as possibly a reference to Ku Klux Klan members and their oppression to go along with white supremacists. I also believe that the title "The situation is intolerable" itself emulates King Jr's preachings. I believe that this is something that he would have actually said about oppression of African Americans during that time period. Just reiterating what I said before I think that this is comepletly about preachings in black churches during the 1950s and 60s.
"The Situation Is Intolerable" shows how in WWII, the U.S. went to war against racism, but that racism was still in America. The first stanza describes the soldiers who went, who are seen as civilized. The third stanza describes people who are also civilized, but not seen by society as such. Dove believes that people are treated differently in society based on factors that don't change whether they are "civilized" or not. They are the "stars" that light up the dark sky. The people referred to in the third stanza could be African-Americans, but they could also be the poor or American Indians. Dove is telling them to stand up and change society rather than sitting and taking abuse, something that happens in the civil rights movement of the 1960s. By repeating the word "intolerable", Dove emphasizes just how terrible the siituation was for people who weren't privileged in that time period.
I think your interpretation that Dove incites the oppressed in society is correct. However, from the third verse in the third stanza, the use of slang diction such as "ain't" and "piss" provides evidence that Dve may have been solely addressing African Americans in this poem, although the poem can be used in a wide variety of contexts. I believe the stars implemented in this poem are people glimmering with hope who stand up and make a difference, such as Martin Luther King, as the stars are described as "studding the inky brow of heaven." They were also described as "missionary" so I don't think the stars represented the underprivileged citizens of America. Also, the poem represents the 1960's moreso than WWII. There is plenty of "O" assonance and biblical diction such as "O mercy on our souls," illustrating the references to Christianity invoked during the Civil Rights Movement. Religious diction does not fit into WWII well. The soldier described in the first stanza may be a grievance concerning black involvement in wars with little credit or deserved treatment.
I agree with this analysis of this poem and I had very similar thoughts on it. I think that what Dove is saying is that because African Americans or people of the lower class are treated as or assumed to be uncivilized, they are not given the chance to show that they can be civilized too. I think the first stanza uses the imagery of a person getting ready for work to show that African Americans were a also a part of the working class and were also capable of being professional and supporting a job. I also found it interesting that the title was in quotes, while the other poems in this chapter are not. I think the purpose of this could be to set a sort of conversational tone to this poem, like two people talking about civil rights, and how everyone deserves equality.
Before analyzing "Lady Freedom Among Us," I did some research and discovered that this is one of Dove's most famous poems. The poem in itself is about a statue of Thomas Crawford's Lady Freedom. When this statue was in need of repair, it was placed in a parking lot near Dove's home, and caught her eye. This statue represents freedom of women and their rights. At this point in America, all races and genders are free and equal. From reading the poem, it is clear that there's a message about how we all have the opportunity to be free, however we take it for granted. In the first few lines, "don't lower your eyes or stare straight ahead to where you think you ought to be going," it recognized how people get caught up in everyday life, and lose sight of our freedom. Then, she goes on to explain characteristic such as "with her old fashioned sandals." This is speaking of how the statue that was once on top of the capital building is seen just as an object. Although we see it this way, it is more than just a statue or a object. It should provide an example of how we are blessed to be free in America. Not only is this the idea behind the poem, but it also conveys that we have fought so hard to be free, and we should be more thankful. Also, in the lines "get a job, fly a kite," she references how we have obtained freedom, and now need to exemplify it. The last few lines of the poem could mean two things. First, it could represent that we should forgive those who are unaware of their freedoms. However, I saw it more as looking back at history, and saying that we can never forget America for long period where people weren't equal (such was civil rights and women's rights). We need to remember those time in order to prevent a repeat of history. After reading this poem, I felt a very patriotic but also annoyed tone as the reader. The feeling of love for America was present in the work, but also annoyance due to people getting too distracted to be thankful for the biggest gift a country could give us...freedom. I thought this was a excellent poem that had a strong meaning and a lesson or reminder behind it. I would love to hear if you interpreted it differently or have any thoughts to add!
Brooklyn, I like your interpretation of the poem "Lady Freedom Among Us". After researching this poem as well, I interpreted it the same way. I like the symbolism that Dove uses of a bronze statue to symbolize our freedom but more importantly, to remind Americans of our freedom. Dove did a great job describing how terrible the statue looked when she first saw. She reminds us that the look of the statue doesn't matter, just the symbol of what she represents. The poem truly is an excellent representation of reminding us that this "lady" will always be there to remind us of our freedom, no matter what condition she is in.
BK, I thought you really interpreted the poem in the way that Rita Dove intended to convey it. I had never really thought about the poem with the perspective of equality in particular. I think this is a very astute point and makes perfect sense in the context of the poem. I really would like though to elaborate on my opinions of this idea as I really have a new opinion of the poem now with this information. I think Rita Dove is attempting to convey a point about America as a whole. America and Americans are one and the same. Regardless of what happens, we bind together as a singular group, children of mother America. Separately, we are nothing more than petty jealous individuals, trying to rake our way to the top, but together we are prideful patriotic Americans willing to face any challenge. We put aside our small differences and recognize each other not by our race, or religion, or political views, but as our siblings, our fellow Americans all working to achieve our goal to spread democracy and freedom throughout our murky world.
Upon reading "Lady Freedom Among Us", I received a great amount of pride for living in the greatest country in the world. I interpreted the symbol, "Lady Freedom", as the American spirit that resonates throughout our wonderful nation. The poem begins by stating, "don't lower your eyes". I interpreted this as meaning to not to live just accepting America for who she is, but rising up, being patriotic, and embracing all that America does for you. The liberty and opportunity given here is unique to anywhere else. It then states, "don't mutter oh no not another one get a job". I interpreted this as loving your fellow Americans as brothers and sisters. We are here together as a whole, living in this country together as one. Embrace the idea that we as a people and a nation are perhaps the luckiest people to ever walk the face of the earth. To live in a place where practically anything is possible, and dreams really can come true is an enormous gift that is priceless. It then goes on to elaborate on how "Lady Freedom" becomes tarnished and dirty. I interpreted this as America being tarnished as like during WWII or 9/11 (Of course this hadn't happened yet). With these kinds of things happening, America doesn't fall apart, but it forms a closer bond with its people. I really saw this as trying to represent how resilient the American spirit and the sense of patriotism in America. America doesn't back down and cower, it comes back fighting, and fights hard. It finishes the poem by stating, "don't think you can ever forget her". I saw this as other nations not realizing the true magnificence that America really is. Overall, I saw this as a tribute to the American spirit and America as a whole. There has begun to be a lack of appreciation for America and everything that America stands for by its citizens, and this is totally uncalled for. America is by far the greatest nation in the world and the poem is really attempting to emphasize this ideal.
A bald eagle then flew down, perched itself upon an olive branch, and shed a single tear upon the Earth below. Ronald Reagan then came back to life, and God Himself came down from Heaven and enacted a flat tax upon the land; and, for that single moment, there was freedom, and nothing but freedom.
Though neither of you got it wrong about this wonderful country that we are living in, I interpreted "Lady Freedom Among Us" quite differently. I thought Dove wrote this poem about what she saw in Thomas Crawford's Lady Freedom statue. The first stanza, "don't lower your eyes or stare straight ahead to where you think you out to be going," is speaking to anyone walking by the statue, urging them to acknowledge the statue and accept what it means. Dove wrote this poem to tell people to stop ignoring the issues of equality prevalent in the mid 1800s .
The first time reading Rita Dove’s poem, “Climbing In” I had no real understanding of the context and meaning of the poem. However, from the description of “teeth of the wolf” to “under Grandmother’s cap” it was an obvious reference to the folktale, Little Red Riding Hood. When relating this tale to the Civil Rights movement, there are many factors that evidently correlate. The poem begins with phrases as, “the dime cutting my palm” and “as I clutch the silver pole to step up, up” referencing a public bus ride. “Climbing In” could possibly be from the point of view of Rosa Parks. She describes boarding the bus using sharp and fearful word choice such as “cutting” and “clutch” creating an unsafe and nervous tone. Describing the bus driver as the wolf from Little Red Riding Hood creates an analogy between the two. Broadening the bus driver to all prejudice white people at the time, they would be described as vicious and cruel but having what seems to be a sweet but fake exterior, similar to the wolf in the tale. Dove also wrote, “Pay him to keep smiling,” which shows the fear of the bus driver like many other Americans. Overall, Dove wrote this poem using the analogy of the folktale, Little Red Riding Hood, to truly illustrate the fear African Americans had felt when riding the public buses, and emphasize how important Rosa Parks and the bus boycott were to free them of the fear. Did anyone else find this analogy between Little Red Riding Hood and the bus system during the Civil Rights movement powerful?
I agree completely Olivia! To add on to your thoughts I interpreted the wolf as the bus driver in this situation and that Grandmother was the goal of eventually achieving equality between all races. African Americans had been on this journey to equality just like Red Riding Hood was on a journey to grandmothers house. Also I thought that Rosa Parks perfectly fit the image of Red Riding Hood with the fact they they were both facing great dangers but both were very brave and couragous about it. However I was confused on the last couple lines and what Rita Dove meant. Does anybody have an explination for those couple lines?
Well, it referred to the figurative wolf swallowing the grandmother. The bus driver is paid while America is consumed by racism, just as the "bright lady tumbles... down the clinking gullet,"which is another word for your throat/esophagus. Because of this, I don't think the bus driver represents the wolf - perhaps it refers to the machine that collects the money - the "bright lady" probably describes the dime as it tumbles into the fare machine (I don't really know what it's called). Nevertheless, the overall meaning of racism and prejudice "consuming" America still stands. One interesting aspect of the last stanza is that it described the lady as tumbling "head over tail" instead of the usual "head over heel." The most obvious conclusion would be that, like tumbling into the clinking gullet, it's another expansion of the Red Riding Hood reference, but I'm not sure why this change was made. Any thoughts?
Belinda, the use of "head over tail" appears to be very literal--coins have a head and tail side, and the narrator describes the coin falling down the "gullet", or pay machine, in the bus she is riding. However, I would agree that the rest of the stanza refers to being eaten by the Big Bad Wolf from "Little Red Riding Hood", specifically in its use of the word "gullet" to describe the pay machine of the bus. The "bright lady" probably refers to the dime as well, but also refers to Riding Hood's grandmother, who the Wolf eats in the original fairy tale. This represents the disappearance of black people's future as they trade their rights for safety. But, I still can't figure out the middle line. Why would Dove stop using her metaphor for just one line in the middle of a stanza?
When reading Rita Dove’s poem “Freedom Ride” I kept feeling a reoccurrence of fire and darkness, which made me relate this poem to all the riots that went on during the Civil Rights movement. The “germy air” would refer to all of the air that has been polluted metaphorically from all of the “dirty” shots that white people have taken on African Americans. I also thought that this could mean that the air was literally polluted due to the riots and smoke that was a result of fire due to the riots. Just a couple lines down Dove writes “the little houses with their fearful patches of yard rushing into flames” made me think of the African American communities. Using the adjective “little” in from of houses gave me the assumption that these families had not come from a great deal of money which is how it was in the African American community back then. Also to go alone with those lines it talks about the “fearful patches rushing into flames”, which I thought of as their homes being attacked by groups of people who were racist against the African Americans. The next line refers to the buses when it states “Pull the cord a stop too soon, and you’ll find yourself walking a gauntlet of stares” which meant that if any African American were to try to step in and stand up for their people they would receive endless stares from white people and would be ganged up on. Lastly the last few lines talks about the reality of the Civil Rights Movement, telling the African Americans that no matter where they go in this country it will all be the same and you will find yourself drowning (drinking) in your sorrows, but the reality is that there is no where to escape this danger.
I agree with all the points you made and also didn’t even think about the air being polluted because of “dirty shots”. The main thing I noticed in “Freedom Ride” was the whole train idea about pulling the cord too soon. I thought it literally meant pulling the cord to stop the train at a stop to early maybe because they were being racially abused or some other reason forced them to get off early. When they departed the bus, they found themselves in a white neighborhood or area of the city and had to walk to their actual destination while being stared at by people who believe they are superior. Also, at the end, Dove writes, “Pick any stop…but where you sit is where you’ll be when the fire hits.” I thought that this meant no matter what stop they got off at, they would be treated horribly, therefore meaning the fire represents racism.
When reading "Freedom Ride", one thing that stood out to me was the repetition of names. These are in lines 17 to 20. The first time reading through, the only name I recognized was Malcolm, which refers to Malcolm X. However after researching the other names, I found out that they were actually references to civil rights supporters who were assassinated. Dallas references John F. Kennedy and the location of his assassination, Memphis the location of the assassination of Martin Luther King Jr., and Bobby another name for Robert F. Kennedy, the brother of JFK who was a senator in New York. This sets a dark tone for the poem. Four examples of men who fought for equal rights, four examples of men assassinated for these beliefs. It seems as though the civil rights movement would have been disheartened at this point, however they continued fighting. The deaths of these people encouraged people to continue fighting, so that their deaths wouldn't be for nothing. This goes along with the diction of fire throughout the poem to show that these men were martyrs for the civil rights movement, fueling it's growth and eventual "success".
I agree with you. I noticed the same thing, that the names and places related with people that had supported civil rights and then were killed. When it says, "Daydream, and you'll wake up in the stale dark of a cinema." I saw this to mean that as much as the people hoped things would change, the reality was that nothing was any different than before, at least until the deaths of Martin Luther King Jr. JFK, Robert F Kennedy, and Malcolm X.. I also noticed that in the last stanza it relates to how civil rights would not stop because of these peoples' deaths but they would only make it a more important subject.
I interpreted "Freedom Ride" as Dove's warning to those who didn't stand out for civil right movement. Freedom Ride was a organization to support African-Americans in segregated south. Mixed racial group rode a bus to the south, but they were attacked by southern racists and most of them died. This poem also lists famous civil right movements which were succeed, but the leading role of each movement died. The whole poem is filled with fire, darkness, and death imagery, too. However, there are description of luxurious American life, such as "Curacao, or a mosque adrift on a milk-fed pond." or "...afternoon singing with strangers, or rush home to the scotch you've been pouring all day-..." Especially curacao and scotch illustrates theses lines are also describing that this lifestyles are corrupt. All of these lines are followed by fire imagery which associates with destruction. This represents how comfortable life that based on ignorance of others(such as African-Americans, because at the time of Freedom Ride occurred,only rich whites could enjoy these luxurious life) could be destroyed when fire, or civil right movement happens. The last stanza is a direct message from Dove to people who have power to enjoy comfortable life. It says "Pick any stop: you can ride into the afternoon singing with strangers... but where you sit is where you'll be when the fire hits." It essentially warns that it is there choice to stay where they are or stand up for others' life(like Freedom Ride did), but anyway fire will stuck them and as it says earlier, their houses and yards would burn. I think Rita essentially argues that if you only cares about your own life, then you will lost that life when the revolution happens.Even though this poem doesn't urge to join civil right movement, it has very powerful voice with dark tone which makes it very serious and tragic.
After reading and color marking the poem, “The situation is intolerable”, I began to realize that the title explains it all. In the very first two lines, Rita Dove writes, “Intolerable: that civilized word. Aren’t we civilized, too?” She is basically condemning the idea that African-Americans during this time are considered intolerable and shouldn’t be considered equal to the whites. They believe the people are intolerable, but this poem contradicts that. Towards the end, Dove says “Our situation is intolerable” stating that it’s not the people that are intolerable but the position they are put into by racism during this time period. She describes this positions they are in as, “all around us dark and the perimeter in flames…” This made me think of what someone would typically describe hell as. So through the use of diction and imagery in the middle stanza, Dove backs up the idea that the way African-Americans were treated was the only thing intolerable, it certainly wasn’t the people. And also to back up the fact that the people are intolerable, they’re pictured in the first stanza as, “Shoes shined, each starched cuff unyielding, each dovegray pleated trouser leg a righteous sword advancing onto the field of battle…” Even in the poor conditions they are forced to live in, they managed to find a way to still look professional and totally, well, tolerable.
The same quote that says, "Shoes shined, each starched cuff unyielding, each dovegray pleated trouser leg a righteous sword advancing onto the field of battle..." stood out a lot to me too and for the same reasons. To me, the description of the cuffs actually led me to think about cuffs as in shackles around their ankles, rather than pant cuffs. I think Dove used this as an unhumorous pun to emphasize how the black's prisoner status was often overlooked. Like you said, it was very venerable how they kept themselves tolerable even in their intolerable situation. I built on this idea a little more in my notes because although the blacks kept themselves civil as a whole throughout their struggle, they still managing to present themselves as a force to be reckoned with, as described by the imagery in this quote, "... a righteous sword advancing onto the field of battle."
"Rosa" can be interpreted simply, but there is always more to it that just the observable context. Just the length of the poem sets it up for interpretation: The poem is the shortest one in the category, which could represent the actual event itself. The actual event with Rosa Parks's arrest was very quick, resolved with a simple complaint and detainment. The simplicity of the poem is what makes it great. each stanza has three lines, complimented with hints of enjambment and imagery such as "clean flame" and "trim name". The way she is Rosa is described is very modest: not much detail is given to her, but her actions were more present, showing that Rosa was just a normal person, who was at the right place at the right time. An oxymoron such as "Doing nothing was the doing" showed that Rosa did not have to go to extreme measures to make a point, as this minor offense sparked a nationwide social revolution. At the end, it mentions a courtesy, way of thanking everyone for witnessing the event, as they realize how important this event is, and how a simple African American woman was able to start something bigger than she had ever imagined.
I completely agree, Josiah. I was very interested in the short stanza and the smaller length of the overall poem. My interpretation was very similar to yours; the simplicity was symbolic of the event. I thought that this was to show how such a simple action could be so vital to a movement. Rosa simply just did not change her seat on the bus. In my opinion, the purpose of this poem is to inspire others to take a stand against injustices, no matter what race, age, sex, etc. Overall Josiah, I think your situation is completely spot-on!
When I read "Lady Freedom Among Us," I first noticed that there was no capital letters and/or punctuation used. I thought that the significance of the use of no capital letters was to represent women and that they are different than men, who would have had capital letters. In other words, I saw this as the distinction between men and women. I thought that the significance of the use of no punctuation was to represent how women are a single body that stay together and support each other. I noticed that there was a repetition of "her" and "she." I thought that this meant that one woman represents all women as a whole. The line, "don't think you can ever forget her," means that women will always be around to represent themselves and will stay a part of the fight for civil rights. I also noticed that this poem was telling women to go against the norms and traditions, by the use of "don't" in many of the stanzas.
The capital letters also alarmed me, but in my first interpretation, I thought this poem was about a single person that tried to preach freedom. Your analysis makes more sense. There was also an anaphora of "don't" throughout the poem so it seems like this is a call to action for women to be strong and reject cultural norms. I think you carefully analyzed this because it was difficult to find anything that you left out. Do you think that some of the diction used such as big boned or unable to budge or thick skin are considered qualities that men share, but women do not in our media today? If so, how much has truly changed?
I like this interpretation because it seems very accurate. But what stumps me is the second stanza. Does it refer to her or people looking at her? Or does it refer to her seeing another man approach her? And also, how is it related to civil rights? Was this the part of the civil rights where women were also trying to get equal rights? It would seem that way if it was so, showing that women have the strength and determination to work when it says "she's not going to budge".
When I first read this poem, I interpreted "thick skin", "stained cheeks", and "unable to budge" as metaphorical descriptions rather than literal physical qualities, but that is a very interesting point. It is possible that Dove has here described "Lady Freedom" (the Statue of Liberty) with somewhat masculine imagery in order to suggest that the women of the civil rights movement have begun to assume roles that are typically associated with men. It is likely that Dove has used the name "Lady Freedom" instead of "Lady Liberty" because of the frequent use of the word "freedom" in the names of civil-rights protests (for example, the Freedom Rides). The assertion that "she has risen among us in blunt reproach" suggests that America's reaction to the movement contradicts its original ideals of equality and justice; the personified spirit of freedom has been ignored. As the poem gradually changes to a more positive mood, Dove further describes the statue as having "weathered plumage" -- a dignified quality that "she" has earned after many years of struggle and progress. Therefore, I do not believe that Dove has described "Lady Freedom" in a manner that implies unattractiveness; instead, the images used to describe the powerful statue represent the unrelenting spirit of the search for freedom that has persisted throughout American history. The Lady is depicted with both masculine and feminine qualities to show the universal nature of her strength.
The first time I read "Climbing In," I had trouble identifying who the three characters could be. There is the narrator, the grandmother, and a lesser character who's only referred to when the narrator says, "Pay him to keep smiling." There are probably a lot of different people that these three characters could represent, but in my opinion, and in the context of this poem and civil rights, I think that the narrator is a white citizen, the Grandmother Rosa Parks, and the unnamed male is a bus driver. The overall "story" of the poem revolves around the narrator, or this white citizen, climbing into a bus. I noticed that there is a motif of metal; "Metallic," "... like the dime cutting my palm," "I clutch the silver pole," and "... down the clinking gullet" are all examples. This motif creates a cold, bitter tone throughout the poem that represents the hostile thoughts and nature of the narrator. That's why I think the narrator is a white person, rather than Rosa Parks herself. In addition, the frequent punctuations, short stanzas and lines, and fragmented thoughts symbolize the narrowmindedness and lack of critical thinking in the narrator which also support my reasoning as to why the narrator is prejudice white rather than Rosa Parks. Overall, I think Rita Dove wrote this poem to portray what she thinks a white person's perspective was in the 1950's when they climbed into a bus and saw a black person sitting in "their" seat. The poem reveals the coldness in their actions and their incapacity for compassion.
I was wondering though: who did you think this poem's point of view is from?
I find your interpretation very interesting considering I had seen the poem as something very different. Upon reading the poem again, I can totally see your version working very well in it's context. Personally, I saw the story as a comparison to Little Red Ridding Hood through the point of view of a figure such as Rosa Parks on the bus. Though the view towards whoever the narrator is directing towards, is very disdainful, I have a hard time believing that Rosa Parks didn't also feel an animosity towards these people who belittled her.
Rita Dove’s poem “Climbing In” struck me as a great portrayal of what it probably feels like to be on the receiving end of racism in America, especially for a black woman. I say “probably” because I, as a white man in America, do not know what it feels like to experience racism the way that black Americans do. The poem uses the story of its narrator getting onto a bus as an allegory for the way black people are treated in public in America. It also alludes to the story of “The Little Red Riding Hood” in order to portray the way that racism against black people in America is often disguised as benign or “helpful” behavior by white people, much as the Big Bad Wolf in Little Red Riding Hood disguised himself as her grandmother in order to kill and eat Little Red Riding Hood. The allusion to “The Little Red Riding Hood” also demonstrates how blacks in America fear for their safety due to the possibility of hate crimes. This is clearly seen in the fourth stanza, where the narrator describes white people’s smiles as “Not quite a grin. / Pay him to keep smiling”. The first line refers to intimidation on behalf of whites, as, to the narrator, the Big Bad Wolf (representing white people) are merely baring their teeth to scare the narrator, but are disguising it as a friendly smile to other white people. The second line refers to the sacrifices black people have made to keep their safety throughout America history, typically by giving something up. Normally it was not money that black people gave up for their safety, but rather their rights, such as the right to vote, the right to an education, or even the right to freely sit on a bus. I enjoyed the way this poem used an allusion to a famous story to get its point across, and also like how it can still be applicable to America today, even though it was written about the Civil Rights era. By using a bus as a metaphor for the American public sphere, Dove is able to tell the reader what it is like, as a black woman, to experience racism in America.
I can definitely understand the premise of using a fairy tale to describe how racism was perceived at that point in time. The overall tone of trustworthiness coming from the point of view of the poem seemed appropriate, as it helps draw a comparison of how a person could be disguised as something else in order to mask the actual hostility that person would feel much like the wolf in this sense. A motif of smiling and teeth are explicitly present to encapsulate the way smiles can be perceived; whether they are genuine smiles, or used to intimidate or mock a disliked individual. A coin, used to pay for the bus fare in context, is used as a sort of bribe that forces the Wolf/Bus Driver to extend his fake smile.
I think there certainly was a lot of usage of teeth, but I think the interpretation of the teeth would depend on the reader. There's only one time in the poem where it explicitly says smiling, all the other times the poem says teeth. I actually think most of the "smiles" are fairly straightforward in that they're not friendly, but smirks or looks of detest, though some are more well hidden and almost appear as grins.
In "QE2. Transatlantic Crossing. Third Day.," I was originally confused by the last three stanzas -- what did the "thimbleful of ache" refer to? After rereading the poem, I connected the line, "I can't erase an ache I never had" to the lines, "Even I'm thrilled, who never learned to wait on a corner, hunched..." It appears to me that Dove is trying to emphasize the fact that she had never truly experienced the lower class, as she was born into a much better lifestyle than other blacks. For Dove, she did not have the "ache," or the hardships that blacks had suffered in the years before she was even born. It was interesting to see this because, in the collection "Civil Rights Movement," this was essentially Dove saying, "I'm part of a movement without having experienced most of the hardships that caused it in the first place." This is not to say that she portrays her lack of experience in a bad light -- in fact, it seems that the wistful tone of "not having a home," represents the fact that she was trying to connect to her roots in deeper ways than simply participating in a movement. The second to last stanza, where she describes herself as "some Negro actually looking for misery," is characteristic of this feeling that she has regarding her involvement in civil rights, is representative of her mood throughout this poem.
I completely agree with your analysis! I noticed that Dove used more advanced vocabulary in this poem compared to the other poems found in this collection. Dove uses word such as liquefied, percale, enmeshed and escorted to imply that she is highly educated. During the civil rights movement of the sixties and before, Dove's grandmother's era, African Americans who went to college were a rarity. I interpreted the line "some Negro actually looking for misery," as Dove trying to find a deeper connection with the people of her grandmother's and her parent's generation.
The poem “The Situation is Intolerable” really struck me. The first thing I noticed was the idea of defining civilized. In the fist stanza, Dove wrote, “Intolerable: that civilized word. / Aren’t we civilized, too?” With the use of repetition in these lines, Dove conveys the idea that the white people of the time think they are superior to African Americans because they feel that they are civilized. In the next line, Dove poses the question that was present throughout the whole civil rights movement: why are African Americans considered to have less worth than whites. In the following lines, Dove writes about how blacks fought for our country, and thus they deserve respect, too. In the second stanza, Dove illustrates the idea that African Americans are brutally oppressed. She wrote, “the terrain: all around us dark and the perimeter in flames,”. This symbolism illustrates that for African Americans, there is little hope, represented by the darkness, but the flames, the thing containing them, gives them some light to keep fighting. The racial prejudice they face will gain attention and awareness will lead to change. In the next four lines, Dove writes about starts and heaven, conveying this idea that there is hope. The third stanza, best represents the motif of civilization. In the opening lines of the third stanza, Dove wrote, “So what if we were born up a creek/ and knocked flat with the paddle, / if we ain’t got a pot to piss in/ and nowhere to put it if we did?” These lines refer to the previous institution of slavery in America. In that time, African Americans were not considered human. With these lines, Dove highlights that this piece of history is not even relevant to present times; it happened around a hundred years ago. To close the poem, Dove communicates that the only thing worse than the predicament that African Americans are facing is not doing anything to stop it. This is an action of civilized people. Throughout this poem, Dove shows that the axiom that blacks are inferior is outdated and they are just as civilized as any race.
I had never thought of this poem in this way before, but I now agree with you. The use of communism in your interpretation was quite interesting and it makes sense considering Stalin and Marx and Lenin are mentioned in the poem. But what I want to know is why? What was so important about incorporating communism into the poem? My guess is that Dove thinks of communism as a system that can become out of control or dangerous, just like celluloid catching on fire. I also agree with you that Dove wrote this in admiration of Kahlo and how she was so influential to women, showing that no matter what you look like you can still be confident enough in yourself to be beautiful. Men admired her for that and I think Dove was attempting to tell women to do exactly that to be happy in their own skin.
The poem "Rosa" seemed incredibly straight forward, as in it was about the famous incident that made her famous. The first stanza talks about her sitting in the bus. I found the line "So wrong it was ready" very interesting. It is almost as if the fact that there are assigned seats that it is so wrong, that there is going to inevitably be an uprising. The second stanza uses personification on her coat to represent how she wasn't asking for anything unreasonable. The third stanza discusses how in our time, the seats don't matter and there isn't anything wrong, yet for her to not sit in the back of the bus at that time is wrong. The line saying "Clean flame of her gaze" is especially powerful, it almost makes the reader imagine a heated stare down, that accompanied the confrontation. The last stanza discusses Rosa parks taking a literal and metaphorical stand against discrimination. I saw this as very straightforward, did anyone else have a different interpretation?
The poem "Climbing In" is representative of the struggle of blacks during the Civil Rights movement. The poem draws parallels between a black individual getting on a bus and the children's tale Little Red Riding Hood. The poem begins with "Teeth", a description of the bus, "Metallic. Lie-gapped." Both lines refer to the predatory aura surrounding the bus, similar to the wolf in the fairy tale of Little Red Riding Hood, where the bus bears its "teeth" and is cold, like metal, unwelcoming and trying to scare the person away. The third stanza compares the bus to the dime in the individual's hand, again showing how the bus is unwarm, "Not a friendly shine like the dime cutting my palm as I clutch the silver pole to step up, up" The imagery here also helps to portray the fear this individual and any other black individual, where this individual is holding their money so tightly, clenching their fists in order to stifle whatever emotion they might possibly show, and thus causing the dime to cut into his or her palm. The word clutch also implies a more dependent tone, rather than just using the pole as a tool, it's something to hold on to for support. The repetition of the word up again shows the fear displayed by this particular person, where the length of just a few steps suddenly becomes a long, daunting climb. The third stanza also describes the fear portrayed by the woman getting on the bus, her perspiration visible, a thin layer on her cheek. The second portion describes the teeth again, this time the teeth of the wolf representing the bus driver. "Not quite a grin. Pay him to keep smiling..." Here the bus driver is doing his job, hiding any bigoted thoughts from showing verbally, but his discrimination is still evident on his face, his smile not quite a grin, not a friendly gesture, but baring his teeth, only smiling because he's on the job as a bus driver and must act professional, getting paid. The final stanza ends with the woman falling into into the wolf's stomach, swallowed by her hunters. I thought this was representative of the woman acknowledging and accepting what must happen to her, but still staying strong and trying to have an impact, described as "the bright lady"
Out of all of the Civil Rights poems, "Transatlantic Crossing. Third Day." stood out to me the most. The first, and possibly the most important thing to understand about this poem is the title. As most of us learned in Mrs. Dowty's class, Transatlantic Crossing refers to the transportation of blacks to the Americas to be thrown into the circulation of the ever so profitable slave system. My second time reading through to poem, after realizing what the title actually meant, I noticed quite a bit ocean imagery. “Couples linger by the cocktail piano, enmeshed in their own delight as others stroll past, pause to remark on the weather. Mist, calm seas. This is a journey for those who simply wish to be on the way - to lie back and be rocked for a while, dangled between the silver spoon and golden gate.” Unless the cocktail party was held at the beach, it is unusual to describe the ocean when conversing about the weather. Dove uses the transition from imagery that suggests living in an upscale apartment to imagery that suggests crossing the ocean to become a slave in order to create an individual who is living their life through the eyes of something they never experienced. This is further established in the line “I can’t erase an ache I never had.” I think the poem is about a modern african-american woman “who never learned to wait on a corner, hunched in bad weather…” who can feel the pain of what her ancestors went through. The only thing I couldn’t figure out is why she feels guilty about it. “Not even my own grandmother would pity me; instead she’d suck her teeth at the sorry sight of some Negro actually looking for misery.” Thoughts?
upon reading Claudette Calvin Goes to Work, i thought it was very interesting that the poem started off with a clip from 1955, which sets the tone for the reader. as i read the stroy i interpreted it to be from the view point of a hard working Black women who works late at night. "sometimes i wait until it's dark enough for my body to disappear." i interpreted this as Rita portraying that the women is a little scared and hesitant to go to work for fear of what might happen when she passes a white person. the women waits until it so dark that she can venture on her trip without being noticeable, which gives a feeling of fear of traveling and a fear of whiter people. "let loose a stream of brave talk: 'Hey Mama' souring quickley to 'Your Mama'" this supports the idea of Rita portraying fear and also shows how the white males would look upon Black women as some trinket that they could toy around with. it also shows how short-tempered white males are and they quickley resort to insulting which could later become violence. "What do we have to do to make God love us?" this question striked me as a helpless cry and reminds me of the novel Hour of a Star and how the girl wanted blue eyes because she thought she would then be beautiful. the line from the poem gives a feeling of helplessness on how to be welcomed. the women feels as though she has tried everything she could to please the white folk, but still they insult her. the question is a cry of helplessness to the white folk trying to make them understand that there is nothing that Black people can do to change to become more like the white folk. in the last stanza the line "And i don't curse or spit or kick and scratch like they say i did then" stood out to me because it was Rita Dove showing how the white people will do anything to belittle Black people, which includes spreading lies to keep the Black people from finding better jobs than the ones they have. this peom is very interesting to me because i believe the main purpose behind this poem is to show the nasty evil side of the white folk and to make the Black people more glorified, which is the opposite view of how the white people thought back during that time period of 1950s.
The poem that made me think most about was "Freedom Ride". These poems are hard to interpret since there are so many ways to interpret them but I saw this as a poem of losing hope or saying that you should always expect something bad from something good. It's starts with a hopeful mood where it says "the view would veer onto/ someplace fresh". Then the mood was killed by one word, making it a hopeless mood, "But". The poem then describes the cloudy and germy air which could be due to soot from the fires that were always mentioned. I believe that mentioning fire in the first and last stanza signifies the fire being around the person. The second stanza I think states that a small mistake may cost you a lot at that time. Maybe it could be an analogy to the humility faced by African Americans for small mistakes that they do and how these mistakes remain with them in their memories since it says "playing its mistakes over and over". The last stanza seems to say that there's danger everywhere, even at the happiest of times.
I found the poem "Rosa" especially interesting because of its use of subtle imagery and line structure that evokes the quiet power of Rosa Parks' methods of nonviolent protest. The repeated enjambment of this poem, especially in the first and last stanzas, provides the reader with several natural pauses. This rhythm creates a calm, contemplative, stately mood and a sense of dignity. I also found it interesting that this poem is comprised entirely of sentence fragments, suggesting that the speaker is expressing a series of distinct observed images rather than a typical progression of thoughts or stream-of-consciousness. This structure emphasizes the powerful effect of Parks' presence, implying that her actions matter far more than spoken words. "Rosa" could be considered unusually short for a poem intended to represent an individual's entire life, but it seems that Dove intentionally made this poem simple and straightforward in order to convey Parks' own attitude. Except for a single, striking metaphor ("the clean flame of her gaze), "Rosa" contains no figurative or lyrical language. It is plainspoken and direct, showing that Parks' actions speak for themselves. In "Rosa," Dove essentially portrays only one of her subject's accomplishments, the famous beginning of the Montgomery bus boycott -- an event known as an important step forward in the civil rights movement. However, the title "Rosa" implies that Dove's intention was to express Parks' entire identity. Do you think that this poem represents Rosa Parks' life adequately, or is it too simple to provide a complete picture? On the other hand, was "Rosa" meant to describe only Parks' public persona and influence, not her true personality?
The poem that stood out to me the most in Rita Dove's collection of Civil Rights, was Climbing In. At first, I was confused as to why and allusion to the story of Little Red Riding Hood would relate to such a serious topic, but after a few times reading it, I understood. Poems are just another way of telling stories, stories expression emotions. The past is a story itself. Every story has something that must be overcome, commonly refereed to as 'The Shadow'. For people involved in the Civil Rights Movement, the opposing whites were their Shadow, or 'Big Bad Wolf'. The more conservative at the time saw themselves as the one's put together, but appearance doesn't hide true monsters within. Those who thought themselves supposedly superior were just, "the wolf under Grandmother's cap." A costume does not define you, it is the choices you make.
I found the poem Parsley from Politics of History to be a very creepy and eerie poem. The first few times of reading it, I was a bit over whelmed with the text, not knowing what exactly to interpret it as, and what was going on. For me, it was obvious that the problem included forced labor introduced in the writing, but in the second part, it seemed to focus on that the reasoning behind the suffering of the people, was because of another's insecurity. The character that stood out to me in this poem, was El General, a man plauged by a depression caused by the death of his mother Katalina. The way he talks in the poem is very sure of himself, as if he refuses to see the insanity. An example of this, "Who can I kill today," at the end of the statement, there is no question mark. By doing this, apparantly the general thinks he is gaining something, but the question about the poem is what that is. Personally, I think for every person he kills, the more dead he feels inside. The General is only waiting for his death to arrive, he is waiting to follow his mother, or like the poem repeats often, "a parrot imitating" he is waiting to imitate her actions. But when the poem states, "a parrot imitating spring" I found it to be the general trying to hide his madness, and kill those who know, the slaves of the house. I'm a bit shaky on this interpretation though, and still unsure on the historical background behind this, so if you had any other interpretations I'd love to hear it-
This is a very interesting take on the poem. I agree with you, this poem is very dark and creepy in nature. It is hard to imagine scenes like the ones portrayed in this poem actually happening in real life. I saw it more as the death of his mother made him cold and distrusting of the world. He was so hurt that it completely changed who he was. This happens, to a much smaller extent, nowadays as well. Experiences that cause a lot of pain tend to change people and make them distrusting. Overall, there is definitely a lot more behind his actions and way of being than one may originally think when first reading this poem. One may originally think he is just a cruel man because that is the way he is, but after reading the last half of the poem, we can clearly see there is a lot more to the situatio than meets the eye.
i agree with Bianca that the death of his mother caused the general to change his ways to be more harsh and brutal. the parrot that is repeated is more of a painful reminder of his mother due to parrots being able to repeat what they hear and in the poem, it states, "someone calls out his name in a voice so like his mother's" this causes the general to be constantly reminded of his mother, which causes him more pain that will be taken out on the Haitians.
"Parsley" is a poem that juxtaposes nature with symbols of murder and death. Nature symbolizes beauty, but there are symbols of death, which becomes a rather eerie combination. First of all, there is a "parrot imitating spring", a symbol of nature. The next is the "cane" referring to sugarcane. This symbolizes nature but also the oppression of the Haitians, who harvest sugarcane. The parrot is repeated again, and then "we come up green", meaning we die, rain punches through us, and the rain lets things grow in us, making us "green". A mountain makes a brief appearance, perhaps a place the Haitians would feel safe in, if they could ever reach it. The parrot makes another appearance, followed by El General's teeth, which symbolize vicious swamp creatures waiting for the kill. "We lie down", symbolizing death, and there is "blood", symbolizing murder, and the parrot makes yet another appearance.
I agree with your interpretation that the poem presented an eerie juxtaposition between nature and and murder. While most uses of nature imagery provide positive and soothing tones in literature, this particular poem did an excellent job at using relaxing images as a method to incite fear and remove comfort from the reader. I felt that the repetition of the parrot and sugar cane signifies the oppressive nature in Haiti. While their leader possessed charismatic qualities, he turned out to be a rogue leader under a false persona. Dove implements "fake personas" such as the parrot, sugarcane, and various pieces of imagery to characterize this state of society.
I also agree with your interpretation of this poem. I found that there were simple uses of nature but that these simple ideas create a darker appearance for his life and death around him. I also noticed that the imagery used to describe the nature further was dark and very negative. Whenever something not dark was described it was immediately followed by something dark to show how life and death really are not that different and the differences can not be easily spotted.
The poem "Parsely" refers to Dictator Trujillo's regime in the Dominican Republic, which oppressed his citizens. Dove creates an overall tone of despair to characterize Trujillo's regime. He symbolizes the citizens as parrots, who "imitate spring" or are contained "in a brass spring.". In this situation, the color green that is associated with spring provides negative nature imagery, since parrots' plumages normally contain a plethora of colors. The parrots' uniform colors represent the lassitude and weariness possessed by the citizens, as they are all restricted under the oppression of Trujillo's regime. The motif of talking with " R's" is heavily presented throughout the poem to illustrate how Trujillo desired that no Haitians bring back memories of his own mother. The "R" represent joy, which no haitians can accomplish rolling. The cane fields also represent joy, which the swamp, or Trujillo, envelops because his mother enjoyed sweets. Therefore, overall, this poem turns positive nature imagery into negative imagery. Trujillo feels grief over his mother's death, and desires to turn all joy into sorrow and despair, which the poem explains. Parsely embodies this negative imagery, as parsley has a green color but pungent taste.
I found your interpretation of the poem to be very interesting. I was a bit skeptical of the rolling of the R's and how that represented joy. Personally, I thought the statement and tone when saying how the workers could not roll there R's was a phrase out of spite, maybe emphasis towards how they a too different from each other, or a symbol of separation between the two groups.
I disagree with your interpretation of "R" that is continuously found throughout the poem. I believe the "R" is representative of the pain and suffering that the Haitians endured during 1937. The Haitians were forced to say the word "Perejil"(The Spanish word for parsley), and if one could not pronounce the "R" correctly in the word, they were immediately sentenced to death. The "R" motif in the poem is simply a personification of the peril and pain the Haitians felt during their oppression by Dictator Trujillo. The "R" motif that is present brings and eerie and dark tone to the poem overall. This was the intention of Rita Dove in her attempt to evoke emotion from the reader, and allow them to adopt the feelings of the Haitian people.
I agree with Jared that there is a different representation of the R, but mine is slightly different from both. I think the line "...she could roll an R like a queen." is trying to show how his mother was superior to all the citizens he was murdering and how her being more important to him justifies La General’s actions. He let those who could pronounce parsley live because they were similar to his mother, but those that couldn't were killed. Also, they weren’t killed because they were strong like her and would be good for working in the sugar cane fields which were hard to maintain.
In "Parsley," Rita Dove transforms the symbol of the parrot to reflect the coexistence of beauty and horror. Part 1 of the poem has a dark and deathly tone, created by the use of violent words such as "screaming," "punches," "haunt," and "lashed." The refrain "out of the swamp the cane appears" also contributes to the harrowing tone of Part 1. Swamps are generally associated with murkiness and gloom, while the cane represents the grueling labor of the workers. The repetition of this line epitomizes the oppression of labor that existed under the general's command. Meanwhile, there is another refrain in Part 1 that goes, "there is a parrot imitating spring." This refrain contrasts with the overall tone of darkness since parrots are bright birds and spring is the season of new life and hope. By juxtaposing the beautiful bird with the dreary mood, Dove effectively illustrates the persistence of beauty despite the presence of horror. In Part 1, the parrot seems innocent, as if it has nothing to do with the death surrounding it. This assumption changes in Part 2 of the poem where Dove writes, "The parrot, who has traveled all the way from Australia in an ivory cage, is, coy as a widow, practicing spring." The line still includes the association of the parrot with spring, however Dove associates two more concepts with the bird, one being the concept of wealth. The ivory cage clearly symbolizes wealth and luxury, suggesting that the beauty of the parrot is only worthy of the rich. Dove also associates the parrot with death by using the simile, "coy as a widow." This line suggests that the parrot is intentionally deceiving people into thinking that it is shy, when in reality, it is tied to death just as a widow is. Then finally, towards the end of the poem, Dove writes, "In the bare room the bright feathers arch in a parody of greenery, as the last pale crumbs disappear under the blackened tongue." This line depicts the parrot as a complete mockery of beauty and life. The parrot eating the crumbs of the pastries mentioned earlier in the poem references the gluttony and greed of the wealthy in the face of the poor, which in this case would be the workers in the sugar cane fields. Lastly, the blackened tongue adds to the idea of evil deceptively existing within the innocent bird. Dove changes the symbolizes of the parrot to convey how beauty, when coexisting with horror, acts as a deceitful illusion to detract from the real horror in mass murder.
The first element I noticed while reading this poem was the repetition of the parrot. I think it is very interesting how you noticed that the parrot represented both beauty and horror. Also I like how you recognized the juxtaposition of the bird with the dreary mood. I didn't notice this until I read through your blog post. I would have to agree with you about the symbol of the parrot and I think you did a great job following it through the whole poem. I also wonder if there was a literal parrot or of it is just a symbol from this time period.
After reading "Parsley" I had some interesting thoughts. I was a bit confused so I did some research about the poem itself. I found that it is alluding to the regime of the dictator General Trujillo of the Dominican Republic. General Trujillo was extremely oppressive and cruel to the Haitian people. He subjected them to inhumane conditions and treated them as second class citizens. The worst of it was the massive slaughter that occurred. General Trujillo lined up many Haitian people and forced them to say the word "Perejil" (Parsley in Spanish). If they pronounced the "R", which is repetitious throughout the poem, incorrectly, they were killed on the spot. My first impression of General Trujillo after reading this was utter repulsion. I could not fathom a person who would do something so terrible to a group of people for virtually no reason. This is the same tone that is representative in, "1. The Cane Fields". There is a multitude of dark and negative imagery in this portion that reinforces this idea. Following this part, is "2. The Palace". This part of "Parsley" is significantly different from the first part. It portrays General Trujillo as more human in juxtaposition to the portrayal of Trujillo as a "Satan Spawn" as in the first part of the poem. "2. The Palace" begins by describing Trujillo's sadness over his mother's death and the love that he had for her. It also describes how he acted during her funeral. This is very heterogeneous from the first part and presents General Trujillo in a different light. There is a definite contrasting tone from the first part of the poem to the second. It then goes on to elaborate on how General Trujillo's mother died while baking candies. One would not expect the mother of an oppressive dictator to be making candies. This really exemplifies how people are not as they appear. This is really the idea that Rita Dove is attempting to convey and the commentary on society that she is illustrating. So often people are misjudged without proper knowledge of them and their background. This is major problem in society today and Dove is simply attempting to point this out through her poem while also publicizing the atrocities by General Trujillo.
In the poem "Parsley" uses imagery of horror to make the reader connect with the torture and fear imposed by El General. The line "he laughs, his teeth shining out of the swamp" portrays the Genneral as a violent and horrid person. This type of imagery makes the reader envision him as a monster or character of a horror movie. Also, the line " we lie down screaming as the rain punches through" has a powerful impact on the reader. It creates a tone of suffering and gloom. Reading this line makes the reader instantly feel taken aback by the conditions that these people have to endure. Dove also uses lines such as "he sees his boots the first day in battle splashed with mud and urine as a soldier falls at his feet amazed- how stupid he looked!" to portray the General as a cold and heartless man. Something in his past seems to have made him cold and lacking love or compassion. This is something that is very relatable because aftter being very hurt or undergoing a traumatic experience, people tend to become distrustful of the world and put up walls to protect themselves from getting hurt again. Dove also uses diction relating to the hispanic culture throughout the poem. This gives the poem more context and makes the piece seem more accurate and realistic. Incorporating this language and detail gives the poem a more authentic feeling.
I agree with your interpretation where you stated how Dove uses horrific imagery to convey the the torture and fear inflicted onto the Haitians by the General. One line that truly shows the horrific side to General Trujillo is, "As he paces he wonders Who can I kill today." Dove uses this statement to portray the cruel and violent mind of the General. The thought is written as a conventional statement which shows the normality of it to the General. I believe this anger towards the Haitians is a displacement of the anger the General felt from his mother's death. The death of his mother is what Dove emphasizes to be the cause of Trujillo's lack of compassion and his heartlessness. Overall, the horror shown in the second part of the poem emphasizes the horror in which the General experienced himself, which Dove seems to portray as his motive for the hatred on other people.
When we talk about politics, we assume that they are in power because of how they rose, such as promises of reform, status, or, unfortunately, how much fear is instilled in their place of rule . "Parsley" reflects the darker side of politics, and what could go wrong if a madman was in power. Plenty of vivid imagery is used with the juxtaposition of dark colors such as a swamp or parsley green and bright colors such as the colors of a parrot to illustrate the complex behavior of a psychopath. A parrot's feathers have a contrast of light and dark spots, symbolizing how villains has good and bad experiences that can be shown with how he is perceived. It is easy to see that El General is a mass murderer, but the motives behind his killings are very unreasonable. Repetition is very noticeable, conveying the main idea of "Parsley" nicely by containing that property of fear in the actual poem. A unique thing about Parrots are that they are known for their constant repetition of heard words or phrases, thus making El General even more obsessed with this word "Perejil"(Parsley). How was a madman able to take control and instill fear into his people by mass murder? Why was his mother a cause for this catastrophe?
I don't think Rita Dove meant to literally portray Trujillo's mother as a cause for the genocide, but your comment made me think of a different way to interpret the poem. What if Dove was trying to show how easily a regime could go wrong, not because of the traditional historical reasons that we all come to agree on years after, but because of some personal issue that no one had known? It really fits with the theme of history of politics - it makes you consider and think about events in a whole new light. What if the reasons of events in history that we traditionally accept to be true are simply speculations that really don't have anything to do with the true causes, especially in the cases where one person has immense power? We tend to think of many things as definite, but what if some things happened by chance, or mistake, and we are simply inventing explanations for them?
In Rita Dove's poem "Parsley," I believe that the speaker is some horrified person. It's obvious that there is no "I" in the poem, and most of it is in the third person. There are several people who could possible be narrating this poem. First it could be someone who has experienced the cruel reign of General Trujillo. However, the speaker may be one who has just learned about what the Haitians had to experience in the Dominican Republic during this time. This is possible because they could be relating the information that they have just learned back while also expressing their emotions about the situation. In either case, it is clear that the speaker is not happy with the situation of hate, and how it is race related. This is why repetition such as "out of the swamp the cane appears," is used so much through the poem. The repetition is a convincing reminder that the poem is based on the real event of the oppression of the Haitians by General Trujillo. Sometimes you have to constantly reiterate a point in order for the reader to understand the harsh truth. No matter who actually was speaking in the poem, it is evident that they did not agree with the actions taken against these people. Just as the speaker feels, I also couldn't believe that someone would act so cruelly towards so many people who were practically innocent. The tone of the poem is very dark and provides the reader with a terrible feeling knowing what the Haitians had to endure.
I disagree with your first interpretation about whom the speaker is, Brooklyn. My personal opinion is that the two different sections of the poem re told from to separate perspectives, the first being from a victim of Trujillo's reign, and the second from Trujillo himself. I really liked what you said about how the repetition is used to make sure the reader understands the severity of the incident that occurred. I also agree with your thought that the speaker of the first section did not agree with the events that took place; they seem to be horrified and negatively affected by them. The speaker could even be someone who was killed. Overall, I really liked your analysis of this poem!
Brooklyn, I liked your analysis of the poem. Hayden, while reading this poem, I thought it sounded as if the slaves were retelling a story in both sections. In the first section, I believe the slaves are describing the conditions of the sugar cane field and why they were massacred. The first line of the third stanza says "we lie down screaming as rain punches through" The slaves go into vivid detail about the imagery of the sugar cane fields. When talking about El General in the second section "The Palace" they refer to him as "he" and "his" and "the general" I believe the slaves are recounting this horrible person's thoughts and actions. They say, "As he paces he wonders who can I kill today". I believe this poem is written through the eyes and feelings of the slaves.
When I first read the poem, "Parsley" by Rita Dove, I did not notice anything that was significant. When I was doing the color marking, I noticed the use of the parrot and the descriptions of his mother and how they were similar. This lead me to believe that El General bought the parrot because it reminded him so much of his mother but the parrot is his mother. The way that the parrot is described is similar to how his mother is described. When the poem says, "parrot imitating spring," I saw this to mean that his mother was a happy person that was nice to be around and the parrot is doing the same because it is his mother and she will still act the same way even as a bird. The repetition of this in the first part was when El General was not as depressed but was becoming more depressed once he had found his "word". Another reason that I thought that the parrot was the mother was because they both enjoyed sweets. The poem says that his mother was making candies for Day of the Dead and that he ordered sweets for the parrot. This demonstrates how they both like sweets but his mother can no longer make them because she is a bird, so she had El General order them for her. The last reason that I believe that the parrot is his mother is because it say, "she could roll an R like a queen. Even a parrot can roll an R!" This demonstrates how she is still acting the same as a bird. Now that his mother is a bird, she took her skills and enjoyments with her in her reincarnation as a bird. I believe that he loved his mother so much that he wanted a way to remember her and be around something that made him feel like she was still around because of his dislike of people.
When I first read Parsley, by Rita Dove, I was very confused with what was actually happening in the poem. There was clearly horrific violence occurring and “El General” was the leader of this violence. After doing some research, I found that this was poem was a reference to General Trujillo, the dictator of the Dominican Republic, ordering the death of anyone who could not pronounce the R in the word perejil, which was an act of violence toward Haitian immigrants. In Parsley, Dove interestingly breaks the poem down into two separate poems. In my opinion, she did this to try and display the tragedy from different points of view. The first section, titled “The Cane Fields” is told from the perspective of a victim of the tragedy, illustrating the oppression Haitians faced through negative diction. The first line that indicates the negative tone of this poem is the opening line of the third stanza, which says, “We lie down screaming as rain punches through”. The negative diction of the words screaming and punches create a tone of fear and violence that carry on throughout the whole poem, the second section included. After this line, I found that everything seemed to have an eerie connotation to it. Additionally, the first line of the third stanza effectively conveys the tone of the first section of the poem. Dove wrote, “in our dream, lashed by wind and streaming”. This line juxtaposes negative and positive diction by starting with “in our dreams” which carries a happy tone. This is literally and figuratively destroyed by “lashed by wind and streaming”. This line elicits a tone of lack of hope and fear through the juxtaposition. Furthermore, with this line, Dove illustrates the negativity behind the atrocities Trujillo committed. The second portion of “Parsley” is told from the perspective of Trujillo. After reading this poem, the most disturbing part in my opinion was the lack of remorse or empathy Trujillo felt. The first line of the poem is, “The word the general’s chose is parsley”. Dove creates a nonchalant tone with this line that seems so inappropriate for such a tragic incident. As the poem continues, General Trujillo continues to not feel remorse for his actions. In the second stanza, he thinks, ”Who can I kill today.” Additionally, he focuses on material aspects of life, thinking about the brass ring a parrot sits on, his ivory cage, and even blossoms. The third stanza’s purpose is to show that even the evil people of this world are human. Dove conveys this idea by writing, “his mother collapsed in the kitchen/ while baking skull shaped candies/ for the Day of the Dead, the general/ has hated sweets”. These lines show the Trujillo did have feelings and was impacted by the death of a love one, which is a natural human instinct. On the other hand, this is juxtaposed with the fourth stanza, which serves to further illustrate his cruel nature. In this stanza, he thinks about soldiers dying near him and comments on how stupid they looked. Most people in our society would be appalled by this lack of empathy and malice. The fifth stanza is where the two sections of the poem are tied together; phrases from “the Cane Fields” are repeated into “The Palace.” Dove uses this repetition to illustrate the circular affect of different points of view. Trujillo viewed many of the events very differently than the victims. In the first poem, many of these lines were infused with a tone of fear and utter horror but now they are written with Trujillo’s cruel casualness of the event. I found this intertwining of the two poems to be a brilliant use of repetition by Dove. It contrasts the two tones of the separate poems and illustrates that every incident of history will have at least two points of view: the oppressors and the oppressed. Sorry this was so long, I just thought there were so many interesting parts of the poem. Feel free to comment or add anything!
After doing research about the poem "Parsley", I discovered this event in history is called "The Parsley Massacre". Dove does a great job using symbolisms of innocent things like a parrot, parsley and sugar cane fields to describe blood, violence and hatred. The green parrot symbolizes the inhumanity of the general. It is the driving force of the poem that occurs over and over. The parrot also represents spring. Dove portrays the " parrot imitating spring", because beautiful plants will continue to bloom in the spring, regardless of what kind of evil is going on in the world. Parsley is also used as a symbol in this poem. It is represented as difference and power of language. Ironically, the symbolism of parsley dates back to the Hebrews. At Passover, they would eat parsley dipped in salt water to represent the tears the Israelites shed while enslaved. Dove uses the word parsley to show that people hate and will kill for no reason. The last line "killed for a single, beautiful word" explains the power of this one word that resulted in more than 20,000 slaves. The sugar cane fields are a representation of slavery and inhumane conditions. They refer to them as "haunting". It is a historical fact that sugar cane fields have a bloodstained history. Dove has done a great job using symbolism to add layers to the meaning of this poem.
In Rita Dove’s poem “Parsley”, I found the most significant symbol throughout the poem to be parsley. Dove uses the symbolism and imagery of parsley to represent a contrast between life and death throughout the period of time where General Trujillo attempted a racial cleanse towards the Haitians. During that time, Trujillo had used the word parsley to determine whether a person would be murdered, if they proved themselves to be Haitian by not pronouncing their R’s. The word parsley being the barrier between life and death for the Haitians reflects in Dove’s poems. In the second stanza, Dove writes, “El General searches for a word,” and in the fourth stanza writes, “El General has found his word: perejil. Who says it, lives.” This part is a literal description of General Trujillo choosing the word that will determine the fate for those people. How effortlessly this is put, displays the cruelty of his rule and the morally wrong actions that occur from his decision. In the second to last stanza in the poem, Dove refers to the men that are undergoing the birth of a son to “tiny green sprigs”, another parsley reference. This imagery demonstrates the lively and happier side of the symbol which also contrasts the dark side that the General brought to it. The contradictory use of parsley also shows the lack of liveliness and happiness that the General feels which elicits him to focus on the murder and torture of the Haitians. Did anyone else find the symbolism and imagery of parsley to be significant throughout the poem?
The way Rita Dove set up the poem is significant in many ways. One of the ways I recognized was in the part 1. The Cane Fields. The last line of each stanza had one of two verses, those two verses being, “Out of the swamp the cane appears…” and “Like a parrot imitating spring…” I think each stanza represents an individual life of the victims of El General and the Parsley Massacre. The victims were forced to say Parsley and if they couldn’t pronounce it, they were killed. So one way they die is because of parsley, connecting it with the line, “Like a parrot imitating spring. Spring known as being green and great for plant growth, and parsley was grown abundantly and it was green. The other way they could die was by being overworked in the sugar cane fields, denoted by the line “Out of the swamp the cane appears…” Even if they were able to pronounce the R in parsley, they would most likely die working because sugar cane was a very difficult crop to cultivate.
What struck me while reading "Parsley" was the usage of Trujillo's mother in the second part of the poem. At first, I was confused because historically, Trujillo's mother did not die in the kitchen "while baking skull-shaped candies for the Day of the Dead," and Dove herself admitted to fabricating that part of the poem. What was interesting is that Trujillo's mother is used as a tool to almost humanize Trujillo's atrocities - showing an alternative side to the dictator that ordered the massacre of, allegedly, 20.000 Haitians (total death estimates vary greatly). Historically, we know that the death of his mother was not the cause behind the genocide, but in the seventh and eighth stanzas, it is portrayed as such. The general "stomps to her [his mother] room in the palace, the one without curtains.... as he paces he wonders Who can I kill today." Before I actually researched the Parsley Genocide, it seemed to me that from this line, Trujillo was so devastated by the death of his mother that he abandoned everything else and no longer cared about what might happen. He “sees his mother’s smile” as he thinks about the genocide that is taking place, and when he hears a voice that reminded him of his mother, he began to cry. This imagery manages to evoke sympathy for a villainous character that was responsible for the death of thousands of people, but I don’t know why Dove would choose to do so. Furthermore, Dove writes that Trujillo “has hated sweets” ever since “his mother collapsed.... while baking skull-shaped candies...” Since Dove admitted to making this piece of information up, perhaps his mother’s death symbolizes something else that had happened before the genocide. Any guesses?
Something I found interesting in "Parsley" was how Rita Dove used more than one point of view. These perspectives are split into two parts, part one "The Cane Fields", and part two "The Palace". I believe part one is from the perspective of one of the Haitian workers due to the tone of fear and the use of "we". In order to create a dark and fearful tone in this part of the poem, Dove uses somewhat violent diction such as "screaming", "gnaw", or "lashed". This conveys the feeling of the Haitians about General Trujillo. Next, in part two, I think Dove is showing the perspective of General Trujillo. One thing that I found interesting about this is that despite this part of the poem being from the perspective of an insane man, it seems much more calm than the first part. I think that by writing part two this way, Dove shows that Trujillo was a psychopath. Despite being responsible for the death of thousands of human beings, he is calm and uncaring. However the poem also has a somewhat somber tone when talking about Trujillo's mother. This shows how much he cared for her, which, strangely enough sort of humanizes Trujillo a bit more. I think Dove does this not to create sympathy for Trujillo but to give the reader a better understanding of the Parsley Massacre and what led to it. Another part of the poem I found interesting was the titles to the two parts. "The Cane Fields" creates a more humble image, whereas "The Palace" creates an image of wealth. This helps to strengthen the readers perception of Trujillo as being powerful, as it shows the inequality between him and the Haitians.
after reading The Farming of Bones, i had a better understanding of the poem.i understood more that the general used parsley, which can be used in many great ways, to kill the people who could not roll their r's. it is very interesting that the imagery used is positive but the way it is used creates a negative impact. Rita Dove also uses a lot of elements mentioned in her poem to inflict a negative image. i find it interesting that Rita separated Parsley in to a villanelle and a free verse poem. first reading the villanelle, Rita uses the repetition of the parrot and spring to emphasize the death of the generals mother. spring was when he said his mother died and the general planted her cane on her grace, which is repeated in the villanelle repeats "out of the swamp the can appears" and "there is a parrot imitating spring". if the reader had no information about the genocide, the poem could be interpreted as a general killing people because he is hurting from the death of his mother.
After first reading "Heroes," I had no understanding of the meaning behind the poetry. However, after reading it many other times, and color marking, I have found a concrete meaning behind Dove's work. "Heroes," represents the relationship between a mother and daughter. As a daughter there are moments when you try to "pick it because it begins to wilt," or help and obey your mother. Although you had good intentions, it was something that your mother didn't wish for you to do, which leads to anger or "screaming." When a daughter over-steps her boundaries, or doesn't act as her mother pleases, the relationship takes a major toll. In the poetry, this is expressed as "so you strike her, she hits her head on a white boulder, and there's nothing to be done but break the stone into gravel..." The daughter's initial action was one of a hero, because they wanted to save the poppy, or do as her mother pleased, however it turned out the opposite. Now that there is a damper in the relationship between the mother and daughter, the daughter feels guilty. Her guilt was never intended, which relates to human nature. As humans, we often try to impress others, or step in with the intention of helping a situation, and only sublimate it in a negative way. No matter the circumstance, every daughter desires to be their mothers "hero," but achieving that title is much harder than it may seem.
ReplyDeletePlease let me know how you interpreted this poem so I know if I am on the right track or not!
I think your interpretation is excellent, but to add on to it, I thought the flower in the weedy field was a good quality of the daughter out of a bunch of bad or disgraceful ones rather than simply a heroic deed to impress the mother. Because the good flower was going to be overshadowed by all the bad weeds, the daughter had to pluck it, or attempt to receive praise from it by boasting about it. The mother sees this as a heinous act because boasting about the deed made the daughter's sole accomplishment become nothing. Finally, the field is entirely filled with bad flowers, so the mother hits her head on a white boulder, possibly indicating heaven, which is a better place than the disgraceful life she experienced with her pitiful daughter. Therefore the daughter is a full "criminal" of sorts. The title "Heroes" conveys a tone of pompousness, suggesting that the daughter tried to increase her impression on her mother by boasting about her one accomplishment, which ultimately led to her mother disregarding it. Therefore, I felt a main message of the poem was to be humble and do good things out of integrity rather than boastfulness, or that accomplishment may disgrace your image or overshadow your good quality entirely.
DeleteBefore reading your post, I didn’t even notice the idea of the daughter being a hero by saving the poppy flower, or about the requirement to please your mother. What I did notice, however, was that the flower picked represented the old woman and her farm. The poem said, “…you’ve plucked the last poppy in her miserable garden, the one that gave her strength every morning to rise!” Flowers rise, in a way, and so does the old woman. Also, the garden is portrayed as miserable and, in the beginning, the flower is wilting, or becoming, not exactly miserable, but close to it. The old woman dies because of the girl who picked the flower, and the flower most likely dies as well because of her. She may have saved it from dying in the garden, but it would certainly die eventually in the glass of water.
DeleteI thought your interpretation of this poem was very interesting and insightful! Even though it was completely different from my own, I thought it was a valid interpretation since you backed it up with textual evidence. Personally, I interpreted the narrator of the poem as speaking to the reader as if they were a boy who thought they were being a hero to a girl by saving them from loneliness. I think this poem is meant to call out men who think they are doing women a favor by inviting them into a relationship. To me, the "flower in a weedy field" represents a girl who isn't necessarily the cream of the crop, so a boy picks it only to meet the rage of the girl's mother. Phrases like "her miserable garden" and "the written history she wouldn't live to read, anyway," create a tone of resentment towards the mother. This resentment symbolizes how easily men get offended when they take away a mother's daughter, since they assume that they were doing both the mother and daughter a favor. At the end, the poem asks, "O why did you pick that idiot flower?" to represent the resentment that eventually forms towards the girl the boy tried to "save." The flower "was going to die" not because it was living in a lonely, weedy field, but because it was saved and ripped away from its mother when it didn't need saving at all.
DeleteThe first time that I read this poem, I did not realize that the girl was the daughter of the women, but thought they only knew each other because they were neighbors living in the same village. But I did relate the woman to the flower. I saw that the flower was soon to die because it was wilting. So, I thought the girl chose that particular flower and person because she felt that that they were close to death anyway and the house was the closest in the immediate area. I agree with your saying that when she strikes the woman that this happened after a change in the relationship and this is a demonstration of how the girl reacted to the change in the relationship. I also thought that the boulder represented heaven because white is usually associated with heaven and going to a better place. I thought that the daughter collected the gravel from the boulder to surround the flower as a symbol to suggest that her mother is now in heaven and is surrounded in good. I thought that the girl believed she was doing the right thing by picking the almost dead flower and putting it in the gravel because she wanted it to represent something more related to happiness than the sadness it was previously surrounded by in the garden.
DeleteIn terms of the relationship between mothers and daughters, I think that this poem shows the anxiety of a mother torn between wanting to help her daughter, but afraid of the help turning into the kind of harm represented in "Heroes." Since the flower will die with or without "you" picking it, there is a sense of a fate that cannot be avoided. Personally, I think that the mother is both the "hero" and the old woman. She sees her daughter caught in issues (the weedy field) which will no doubt cause the daughter harm in the future ("it was going to die."), but upon plucking it away from the field and rushing to nurture it ("ask for a jar of water"), the daughter rejects the mother's care as nagging and the problem is only worsened. So far, there are a lot of really insightful interpretations, but no one really mentions the sixth and seventh stanzas. Do they also have a symbolic meaning, or are they used more to continue the flow of the plot in "Heroes?"
DeleteWhile all of your ideas are very insightful I found a different meaning behind this poem. I thought that the poem was yet another allegory for Persephone's kidnapping from Hades' point of view. Hades sees himself as a "Hero" for rescuing Persephone from the "miserable garden" that is the human world. Dove represents Persephone as a flower to show that she is weak and easily overtaken by Hades. Hades is called a fugitive in the seventh stanza to represent his expulsion from Olympus. The main character in the poem also refers to the care taker of the garden, or it's mother, as her or she. Assuming that the mother is Demeter this use of pronouns further shows Hades' rejection and resentment towards Olympus and the Gods.
DeleteI like your ideas and insight about this poem. However, I believe that the poem "heroes" is a representation of a mother feeling responsible to nurture and a mothers guilt as a destroyer. I believe the symbolism of the wilted poppy represents a daughter. A mother sees this wilted poppy and picks it to "prop up the flower in the stolen jar." The mothers goal is to save this wilted poppy, as a mother would nurture a daughter. Ultimately, the mother ends up killing this flower and is very destructive. This mother is blamed of destruction to this child when the ultimate goal was the preserve and nurture them.
DeleteI interpreted this poem as the flower representing a mother's only child. When the flower is picked, I thought this could refer back to the myth of Persephone when Hades took Persephone away to the under world. He believed he was doing a great deed by making her his queen, but to her mother it represented her ultimate death. The lines saying, " there's nothing to be done but break the stone into gravel and prop up the flower..." I interpreted it as Hades failed attempt to please the mother by letting Persephone come back to her for half of the year. This was a sort of apology toward her mother, but the damage had already been done. In her mother's eyes her daughter is already doomed to death, and the six months is equivalent to trying to prop up a flower that's already dead and pretend it's still the same. Ultimately, the mother feels as if she has lost the only thing that gave her true strength and happiness.
Deleteafter reading " The Bistro Styx", my first thought was that it was just a friendly meeting between mother and daughter. i noticed that Rita would put side notes about how the mother is feeling or thinking towards the actions her daughter took with her future. at the start of the poem, there is positive imagery, but as the poem progresses, the imagery gets darker and more negative. i think this is to create a different mood with the reader. at first the poem creates a light mood of a mother happy to see her daughter, but farther in the poem, the mood changes to be more aggitated with the daughter's life decisions. i think Rita did this to emphasize how some mothers try to make their daughters follow the path that the mother wants them to take and when the daughter doesnt follow that path, the mother is more negative towards the daughter. relating this back to the greek mythology of Persephone and Diameter, this story emphasizes the disappointment that Diameter felt when she found out that Persephone ate the pomegranate seeds. Does anyone else feel the negativity and annoyance the mother has towards her daughter's decision in the poem?
ReplyDeleteThe mother is very much disappointed. However, I feel that this poem detracts from the original myth in a number of ways. Persephone has been kidnapped by Hades, whereas the daughter willingly strays from the path of her mother. The modern Persephone chooses to leave the path. This leads to the mother being annoyed, whereas in the original myth, Demeter is heppy to see Persephone when she returns. There are a lot of similarities as well, especially how the mothers feel when they "lose" their daughters. I think Rita Dove included the differences from the original myth on purpose in order to make a point about how women in that time period didn't want to follow what society wanted them to do. However, the poem portrays that as odd and even insane, which falls out of line with Rita Dove's beliefs.
DeleteAfter reading Dove's poem "Primer", I thought it had a fairly clear meaning and relation to the Greek myth about Persephone. In the poem, it is clear the daughter is having troubles with the other kids and is bullied by them, but she doesn't want her moms help. Dove writes, "...my five-foot-zero mother drove up in her Caddie to shake them down to size. Nothing could get me into that car." I believe that in all mother-daughter relationships, the mom is very protective over the daughter but most times the daughter wishes to figure out and deal with her problems on her own. The daughter says, "I... swore I'd show them all: I would grow up." This powerful statement that ends the poem does in fact show the daughter's desire to grow up meaning handling her own problem and showing the bullies they're wrong. All humans go through problems and it is very relatable that they tend to prefer solving those problems by them-self without the help of those who love them. Dove's poem departs from the Greek myth through its modern American word choice used and the unrelated story it tells. However, the overall meaning of the poem possibly relates to how Persephone felt about her mother. Demeter attempted to help her but maybe Persephone didn't want her help and either accepted the problem or tried to deal with it in her own way. Did anyone else find other details about the poem that support the meaning or find a different meaning from the poem?
ReplyDeleteI agree with your idea of this independence both Persephone and the main character of this poem want from their parents. These opposite struggles that you compared worked very well based on the relationships that were involved around them. Each of these works has a mother daughter relationship, and a 'villain' such as the Gatlin girls, and Hades. Another similarity I also found was both of the main characters were controlled by something out of their own control. Example being Hades taking Persphone, and the other girl getting bullied.
DeleteAfter reading "Breakfast of Champions," to me, it referred to a mother giving birth, and reflecting on the rewards that come with raising a child. The poem sets the mood with "overcast skies," conveying a tone of dreariness and a hint of despair. However, the narrator claimed that she "worked her way through petals and sunlight to find a place fit for mourning." This means that, while she experienced happy times thinking about having children, she also experienced the pains of childbirth. Weather produces dreary imagery, while beautiful nature imagery contrasts with this to convey the narrator's ambivalent attitude in having a child. However, she references the martini to convey a tone of celebration later when she finally has her child. When the Canada geese arrive, they were "honking." This conveys a tone of annoyance, where while they are a pretty sight and signal the coming of a new season, they're arrival into the lake was displeasurable, similar to childbirth. Furthermore, the narrator concludes with a couplet stating an analogy that, while she ate her recommended portion of cereal, she sprinkled stones on it, suggesting that it tasted bitter and disgusting. Therefore, this corresponds to the narrator enduring the pain of childbirth, yet reaping the rewards of earning a child to care for and nurture in the future. This is what the title, "Breakfast for Champions," means, in which a mother has to "eat a breakfast" of pain during childbirth, yet in the long run, she is a "champion" for having the gift of a child. I noticed that most of the starts of sentences were spondaic in meter, such as "finally," "Arise," and "I'll dive," to illustrate the author's triumphant attitude as she endures suffering yet looks forward to her reward. Lastly, I felt this poem lacked coherent rhyme scheme because of its dark yet triumphant tone, with defined rhythm conveying a tone of ebullience and effervescence. Please let me know if you have different interpretations.
ReplyDeleteComparing Persephone, Falling and The Narcissus flowers I soon found that both these poems potrayed the same tone. These tones were violence and sexuaility. For instance in Persephone, Falling, "No one heard her. No one!" This quote expresses violence and anger the same tone which is shown in the Narcissus Flower, " I found myself at the center of a calm so pure, it was hate". This line demonstrates self pity and hatred but also in a sense contentment with her situation. In both these sineros it sounds as both the people are being harassed in either a physical or emotional way. Rita Dove uses the relationship towards Deminer and Persephone to show grief, pity, sadness, and many other emotions through a mother and daughter relationship.
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ReplyDeleteSimilar to Olivia, I noticed in the poem Primer how the narrator glorifies her mother and wants to be like her. The way the mother is described as “five-foot-zero” meaning she is very small. Despite being smaller than most other people, she was still able to stand up to the three Gatlin kids. The narrator, the daughter, wasn’t able to and always had to run from their shoves. That’s why she would refuse to get in the car after her mother saved her from the three skinny sisters, who are labeled as skinny most likely to illustrate how they’re small as well. The bullied girl doesn’t want to be picked on by people who are just as small as her, she wants to be like her mom and be able to stand up to anyone even if they are bigger than her. I also found it interesting that in this poem, the antagonists are girls, compared to a majority of the other poems where they’re a boy. For example, in Party Dress for a First Born, Rita Dove wrote, "men stride like elegant scissors...they will nudge each other to get a peek...all the while wishing them dead." Men represent a bad people, and she seems to categorize all guys into a those who take advantage of women, and in a way, opposing the idea of love. The only love she agrees with is Mother Love, the whole concept of these poems. Do you think there is a reason behind the bad person being a group of girls in Primer?
ReplyDeleteNate, I couldn't agree with your interpretation more! It's interesting how you noticed that the bullies were girls, rather than boys. I believe that Dove may have chosen them because a girl is more likely to try and be like other girls, rather than boys. For example, girls often see others and wish for their looks, or their hair etc... In this poem, the girl wants to be strong and mean, rather than perceived as one who is weak and can easily be picked on. She also admires her mothers boldness, and knows that someday she will have the confidence that her mother has. This is a great question though, because if the bullies were boys, the daughter could still have desired to be like them. Does anyone else have a perspective?
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ReplyDeleteThe first couple of times I read Golden Oldie, I was a bit confused by the message. Upon skimming it for the first time, I tended to latch onto the idea of this mysterious love at the end of the poem, instead of the relationship between the mother and her daughter. Even though the mother isn't physically present during the poem, after reading it a few times over, I started to find distinct introductions to her. The mood of the poem doesn't seem to waver much, the girl always stuck in a state of uncertainty. As the poem sets the scene in the beginning, it shows the girl in over her head. Rita writes, "Swaying at the wheel like a blind pianist caught in a tune meant for more than two hands playing." The word, "swaying" automatically made me think of a drunk person whose vision is clouded by the alcohol, like the girl's who decision is overtaking her thoughts. The excerpt, "meant for more than two hands playing" suggests that this is something the girl can't handle alone, she needs help with it. Why she doesn't ask for help, or can't receive it a question of interpretation. Personally, I think it is the own girl's stubbornness holding her back from asking. This desire to rule herself is shown in, "The words were easy, crooned, by a young girl dying to feel alive, to discover a pain majestic enough to live by." The paradox of "dying to feel alive" shows both a character who is seemingly controlled, and one who wishes to break free. The last line of the poem, "or where to start looking" shows this is a journey the girl will take on her own. Overall, I found this poem to be the point in which a child breaks off to become their own person, no one is completely their parents, at some point they have to branch off. I'd love to hear if you guys had any other interpretations, this poem can be taken many ways!
ReplyDeleteYour interpretation of "Golden Oldie" is very in depth and thorough. However, I viewed the poem at a slightly different angle. When I first read the poem I imagined it as Persephone talking in a modern society, longing for love. This would be ironic due to her unfortunate fate. The poem states, "'Baby, where did our love go?'- a lament I greedily took in without a clue who my lover might be, or where to start looking." If the poem were to represent her overall mindset prior to her kidnapping, Dove would be showing how differently Persephone viewed her own fate towards love from how it actually turned out. This use of dramatic irony, if the poem is viewed as Persephone narrating, might have been intended to elicit pity from the reader.
DeleteI think that both of you have very good view points about this poem, however I viewed this poem in a different way. I immediately envisioned a mother who was the one in the divers seat and that this poem was about the mother not being able to do anything about her daughter growing up and making her own decisions. The mother and daughter had once had an amazing relationship which would refer to the "two hands playing" and is now is a solo pianist. The mother knows that the daughter must experience life but she does not know how to deal with the ache in her heart from the daughters absence. Lastly near the end of the poem the line "baby, where did our love go?" made me imagine the mother lying there thinking about their past relationship and the mother running her mind ragged with the thought of the relationship never returning.
Deletei had similar ideas about whose point of view the poem is trying to perceive.i also interpreted the poem as a young teenage girl in modern times. my first idea was a girl who was lonely and was looking for love. "baby, where did our love go?" and "dying to feel alive" struck me as young, innocent teenage girl who wanted to grow up and wanted to find someone who she can love and who could love her back. i see this poem as before Persephone was taken by Hades and that this poem could represent her thoughts while she strayed from her mother.her mother was very protective and it would make sense if Persephone had thoughts about who her lover might be, which is what i believe Rita Dove was trying to show with Golden Oldie.
DeleteAfter reading "Used", I had some mixed feelings. I interpreted it rather strangely, but I believe it has some merit. The poem begins by describing the new fads of American society: "Size threes', "Skirts ballooning above twinkling knees". It presents the impossible standards that women are subjected to constantly in American society. It really illustrates the oppression women face, in living up to these unreal standards. In the second part of the poem, it enters into vivid rape imagery onto this woman (And no I am not agreeing with Austin Jones), in which she is raped exchange for a better deal on silk sheets. There are two main pieces of symbolism that are present here. The first are the silk sheets. The silk sheets referred to are symbolic of the high standards that women are forced to live up to in their looks, as compared to the high quality that silk sheets are in comparison to cotton sheets. The rape imagery is symbolic of the way that American society treats women. Society forcibly "rapes" women in the way that it treats them and forces them to live up to immense standards in their appearance. As a whole, it is a representation of the casualties that women have to live through in American society around the standards that they have to live up to.
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with you that Dove was stating that women are oppressed by American society to be perfect. I thought it was interesting that you brought up the rape imagery because I did not notice this upon reading it the first time. But after looking at the second to last line where it says "Enough of guilt" I can see that this could definitely imply rape imagery. I did however view this as Dove's critique of females today, and how the social norms of society have forced women into becoming the idea of "perfect" when in reality it could be hurting them through eating disorders and depression. I also now agree that the silk sheets symbolize the "perfect look" for women, but I think Rita Dove herself was effected by the change in societies view of women.
DeleteI found The Narcissus Flower to be a dark poem that deals with a very important and relevant issue. The poem utilizes figurative language, rape imagery and structure to symbolize the transformation women go through when they experience traumatic experiences such as rape. Before, the women is compared to "a frightened bird" to show that she is scared of being vulnerable, however she is still in flight and therefore she is still free. In the next stanza, Dove writes that the "blossom incinerated," symbolizing the violent loss of innocence. Dove then combines simile and personification with rape imagery in order to make a strong impact on the reader and to burn a picture in his or her mind. She compare this man to be "adamant as a knife easing into the humblest crevice." Even when cutting through butter, the humblest crevice, a knife shows no mercy, similar to how a man shows no mercy when taking away the innocence of even the most chaste of woman. Even though this particular women overcame this trauma by eating the fear before it ate her, she finds that she "can live beyond dying" showing that you still retain your life and soul after deathly experiences such as rape, although it is painful to pretend to continue life as before. This woman's transformation into a "queen whom nothing surprises" represents how she has seen the worst the world has to offer so therefore nothing can phase her. She lives almost as a sort of ghost, without hope and without optimism. Finally, Dove utilizes short and to-the-point stanzas to emphasize the strong, bitter tone. The narrator talks as if she's restricted and destroyed by her past experiences.
ReplyDelete"The Bistro Styx" struck me as an allegory for the way mothers feel that their children (daughters) are lost in the modern world today. Also, allusions to the myth of Persephone seemed to be most obvious in this poem compared to the others. Negative and dark imagery, often associated with death, are used to describe the daughter as well as elements throughout the poem. Dove begins with "She was thinner, with a mannered gauntness.... silvery cape billowing..." in the first stanza, and follows with "she was dressed all in gray... down to the graphite signature of her shoes." This references Persephone's appearance after she becomes queen of the underworld, as the lifeless colors literally symbolize the dullness of her new life. The eighth and ninth stanza show the fact that Demeter and Persephone's relationship have changed. Persephone not only has a formal tone of speech when addressing her mother, but her chat is interrupted by the observation of "The Chateaubriand arrived on a bone-white plate... black plug steaming like the heart plucked from the chest of a worthy enemy." Again, negative imagery pervades each stanza of the piece.
ReplyDeleteSimilarly, I connected the repeated mentioning of fruit and food to the six pomegranate seeds that Persephone consumed. Throughout “The Bistro Styx,” it seemed that the daughter was more concerned with food than the conversation between her and her mother. Demeter has lost her daughter to the underworld, just as in the present there is a growing disconnection between a parent and child due to the temptations of material goods, careers, modern facilities. Persephone, or the child, is losing old values (the values of the mother) in order to pursue the new ventures that have enticed her.
The one interesting thing I noticed is that the “Persephone” in this poem seemed to be a willing “queen” of the underworld, whereas in mythology she longs to be back with her mother. I think that this illustrates that fact that children aren't being wrenched away or tricked by technology or modern goods, but that they are willingly and knowingly letting themselves be taken in. What do you guys think of the way “Persephone” is portrayed throughout this poem?
"The Bistro Styx" is a poem alluding to the Greek myth of Demeter and Persephone. The mother in this poem feels that she has lost her child at the end, and the food is a symbol of the pomegranate seeds that Persephone ate. The daughter is posing for an artist, who represents Hades. There are other references to the myth as well, such as the "bone-white plate" symbolizing the bones of the Underworld and "lipstick ghost" symbolizing the daughter being dead in the Underworld. The title of the poem itself references the river Styx, the river of forgetfulness, referencing the fact that the daughter has forgotten her old life. The mother is trying to bring her daughter back to her old life, while the daughter seems to be lost, paying more attention to the food than her mother. She tries to prove the significance of her job by telling her about the Parisians' love for her. This is ironic because love in Paris tends to be fleeting. This poem represents the ways that daughters have been "kidnapped" by their jobs and losing their old lives, just as Hades kidnapped Persephone. I find it rather odd that this anti-feminist idea would be conveyed by Rita Dove.
ReplyDeleteI don't think the poem is anti-feminist at all. Yes, the daughter is very involved with her work, but it is not the work that is manipulating the daughter into something that she despises. If you notice, the first line of the sixth stanza refers to the woman's daughter as "the brooding artist's demimonde". "Demimonde" is a French word for someone who lives a life of hedonism and questionable morality--its literal translation is "half world", much like how the daughter’s poor life choices will cost her her relationship with her mother. It is implied later by the lines “he’d convinced/ her to pose nude for his appalling canvasses,” that the artist and daughter are in a relationship. This parallels the relationship between Hades and Persephone, as Persephone is the Queen of the Underworld in Greek mythology. The mother, who certainly displays the unbridled contempt for her daughter’s partner that Demeter did, does not see her daughter at fault. No parent wants to blame their child for something that can be blamed on those they associate with, and as such the mother blames the artist-become-boyfriend for her daughter’s life choices. Because it shifts the blame away from the female member of a consenting relationship for her own choices and onto the male member, portraying him and other men as manipulators and corruptors of the good and innocent, this poem, and by extension the story of Persephone, are so far from anti-feminist that they could be considered misandrist.
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ReplyDeleteUpon reading "Party Dress for a First Born", several ideas occurred to me. First, the main premise of the poem has a strange sexual premise to it. "Tonight men stride like scissors across the lawn to the women arrayed , petals waiting to loosen." which may be another way of the courtesan system of what is occurring in the poem. What Rita Dove means by this is the poem is representing the regret of giving yourself to another person in that manner by which the "nudging" happens. both stanzas end with colons, which may be included for tone, or it might represent the emotions the protagonist is experiencing at this point. the words "step" and "stand" are both used twice, which represents movement from where the the character is going: which direction is she taking with her life? Will there be repercussions to this promiscuous behavior?
ReplyDeleteI agree with the main idea of your post that the poem is heavily about sexuality, and regret. This I think links back into my argument that Mother Love is about various sexual situations. I think the line "all the while wishing them dead," links back to Rita Doves hatred of men. Many of the poems in this are about rape or regretted sex, and how much she hated the men who commit rape. But in this poem she drags this out much further and says all men "Nudge each other to get a peek" and how she wishes them all dead. Historically this ties into how many female members of the Social Justice movements attack all men, instead of those who wronged them. I think this poem, tying into the others, makes Rita Dove not that much of an admirable figure, but instead one that we should look upon with scorn.
DeleteSo after reading "Persephone, Falling" I almost immediately came to the conclusion it was about rape. The conclusion most people would come to is the idea that it would be about kidnapping, as that is the basis of the myth of Persephone. Yet some of the choices in words would lead one to believe that instead of being about kidnapping it would be about rape. The first one of these is the fact she "Stooped to pull harder," or bended over. As she was bending over the man on the glittering carriage "Claims his due." Then the repetition of "No one!" would also suggest that she felt utterly alone and that no one cared, which is a feeling similar to that of how many rape victims feel. The final two references are "How easily the pit opens," and "How one foot sinks into the ground" which both indirectly reference sex. I later browsed through the other poems to find if any of the others are about strange sexual situations. The Narcissus Flower, being the next poem in the packet, was the first one I looked at. In the Narcissus Flower there are also references to sex. The line "I could... hear myself scream as the blossom incinerated" is a sexual innuendo. Incinerated is a very dark term, which leads the reader to think that the "blossom" was burned in a very dark way. Then later in the poem it says "This man adamant as a knife easing into the humblest crevice" is a innuendo for intercourse. As the "knife" was easing in she felt pure hatred, just like many rape victims. In the poem "Exit" Rita Dove also puts in many sexual innuendos, specifically that of having a loose partner and losing them. The first thing that points this out is the use of the color pink. The closing windows that are pink are much like a specific part of the female body after it has been used. The suitcase and taxi is a sign of her being kicked out of a house. This house, as the color pink hints at, is one of a partner who kicked her out. The final two lines include "When your mother told you what it took to be a woman in this life" is a hint towards one losing their virginity. The best way to describe this innuendo is to look at a poem by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn called "Prussian Nights". In "Prussian Nights" a woman is raped and it uses this line to describe it "A girl’s been turned into a woman, A woman turned into a corpse." All of these references to rape and sex led me to wonder if Rita Dove had some experience with rape or loss of a partner. I could not find any information on this, but I believe it would be a very interesting question to ask her.
ReplyDeleteI think this is very intriguing perspective, and a bit tamer compared to your other theories. There definitely are hints towards some sort of sexual violence, though I wonder if Dove just meant to connect her poems with the primal, sexual nature of a lot of mythology. The Narcissus Flower, for example, could have its name derived from the tale of Narcissus, a hunter in Greek mythology who was renowned for his beauty. He actually fell in love with his reflection, which I think is reflective in this poem where there's a change in subjects from "I" to "you", though I can't really draw many more parallels between the poem and the tale.
DeleteAustin, I agree to you to an extent on your ideals about this poem. In my personal opinion this view is a bit extreme, and not the idea that Dove was attempting to portray. In the poem though, there are multiple instances in which I believe Dove was attempting to convey the emotional toll that rape plays on an individual. I believe though, it is trying to show the social impact that rape has on a person specifically. In the last line of "Persephone, Falling", it states "She had strayed from the heard". This line is in place to really emphasize the social impact that rape has on an individual. This individual referred to had forcibly "strayed from the herd", meaning she was an outcast in society. Due to this event, she is viewed as a lesser being and is less desirable as a wife and a companion. Rape destroys a person's social reputation and changes the course of their life. This is the main ideal that Rita Dove is trying to illustrate in his poem.
DeleteMy first time reading "The Narcissus Flower", I went in with a bit of bias, taking inspiration from Austin's unique commentary from the other day. I found a lot of the language related to innocence and could easily be related to the loss of innocence. For example, in the first sentence, "frivolous" means carefree, representative of the childish attitude of having no responsibilities, and a "frightened bird" could represent purity in nature. In the following parts, there is a deflowering of sorts, where the "blossom [is] incinerated", a plunge by a man who isn't restrained(chastened), full force, "adamant as a knife easing into the humblest crevice". I also found the shift 3/5th of the way in the poem interesting, where the commentary goes from "I" to "you". I thought this could be relatable to how someone who is a victim of a tragedy copes with their pain and struggles, victimizing themselves and in turn, no longer seeing themselves as "I" but someone else, so disarrayed that they've almost become a different individual. In this poem, the individual finds herself "at the center of a calm so pure, it was hate", and I again connected this to the idea of a person using some sort of disassociation or denial technique to cope with extreme distress. Finally at the end of the poem, "you can live beyond dying — and become a queen whom nothing surprises." I also connected this with the idea of pretending, becoming something one isn't or ignoring reality by achieving the impossible, life beyond death.
ReplyDeleteI can see why there would be a bit of a bias, as much of the discussion surrounding her works consisted of promiscuous references. "The Narcissus Flower" can support this ideal of Rita Dove using these innuendos as a way to convey tone and theme. This poem was about way innocence was taken from her by supernatural beings, and with this the way it is described can attribute to mixed emotions and reactions. This idea of supernatural forces acting upon the mortal world might be attributed to the conflict of man vs. fate, the way destiny becomes a reality.
DeleteThe first time that I read "Demeter, Waiting", I did not understand what it was trying to say. After I reread it a few times, I thought that Demeter was blaming herself for her daughter being gone for part of the year. When the poem says, 'refuse any meadow that recycles itself into hope," I felt this meant that every year her hope comes back but she tries to deny it every time, reminding herself that there was nothing she could do to change their situation. Every time "will" is used in the second part, I connected this to what she was she needed to do to get through this part of the year, making everyone else suffer. And when "who" is used in the beginning part, this was what she was convincing herself that this was what she was now that she was dealing with her daughter missing. I also noticed that the use of imagery was increased at the end of the poem. I thought this was her telling everyone what this part of the year would be like from now on.
ReplyDeleteI see your point of view but the change from the first word to the last word made me interpret this a bit different. Dove starts the poem with "No". After reading the whole thing and thinking to this one word, I think this is more of a poem about denial. I think it's denial because of the line "She is gone again and I will not bear / it..." This seems like she is denying that her daughter is gone once again because of her. By her saying she will not bear it, she may be referring to grief, pity, or waiting. Denial usually ends with acceptance which is why she says " Then I will sit down to wait for her. Yes." I feel like her saying yes means that she's accepted the fact that it was her fault that her daughter went away. And her waiting is accepting the fact that her daughter is, in fact, gone.
DeleteAfter reading over the poem "Used" I got a feeling that Rita Dove was critiquing the female gender in our society. She says "Size threes are all the rage, and skirts ballooning above twinkling knees are every man-child's preadolescent dream." I interpreted this as Dove stating that women today are worrying about their appearance to impress a man. Dove is not saying that it is the women's faults themselves, but what society has turned them into. The title "Used" is Dove's way of saying that society has made a large amount of women not feel comfortable in their skin and strive to be the model of perfection. I agree with her because I know that let's say fifty years ago models where not a size three yet they were still considered perfect and today every model is skin and bones. "Tabula rasa. No slate's that clean" this next line in the poem in my opinion is saying that because society has used women to make them become unhealthily skinny, all women in this society are being pressured to become this "model of perfection". Tabula rasa in Latin means blank slate, and Dove is stating with this that the social norms for women are not allowing them to fully express themselves as people. The last line "It's hard work staying cool." portrays Dove's understanding of the social norms for women and how it is difficult to not accept them.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with your interpretation. When I first read this poem, I was struck by its focus on size and materialistic items. In the first line of the poem, Dove wrote, “The conspiracy is to make us thin…” The diction of the word conspiracy really stood out to me in how it indicated that it is a plan to make women feel they need to be thin to be a woman. Additionally, in the second line of the same stanza, Dove uses the word rage to describe the obsession society has with being a size three. Rage is a passionate outburst, and by using this word, Dove conveys that it has become a passion of women to become thin. I love your point of the making women feel uncomfortable in their skin. Furthermore, I found this title conveyed the idea that this obsession with size makes women feel like an object that can be easily be discarded and are at the disposal of society. One point I wanted to add has to do with the purpose of this poem. As we learned in class, Dove was a mother to one daughter. I believe she wrote this poem for her daughter to convey the idea that is not necessary to succumb and conform to the pressures of society; it is okay to be different and you should be confident no matter what shape or size.
DeleteRita Dove’s poem, "Used", is a poignant portrayal of the beginnings of postpartum depression and the conflicting societal standards regarding maternal sexuality. The first of the poem’s stanzas is a clear condemnation of American attitudes towards female beauty and cultural expectations of female sexuality. By beginning with “The conspiracy’s to make us thin,” Dove makes clear who the target of this poem is. It is not “the conspiracy”, but rather the patriarchy which oppresses all women that the poem is targeting, specifically the beauty standards enforced upon women by American culture. The line, “Skirts ballooning above twinkling knees” takes similar aim at America’s fetishization of youth and its association with femininity. Balloons and twinkling are both childish words, funny in their sound and the mental images that they conjure: balloons create a mental image of clowns twisting latex tubes into rough caricatures of animals, and twinkling sounds both like a euphemism for urination and alludes to the nursery rhyme “Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star”. The last line, “Tabula Rasa. No slate’s that clean—“ refers to the way American culture similarly prizes virginity as a hallmark of a beautiful woman, and rejects those who are not virgins as impure or sullied, like a used piece of slate.
ReplyDeleteThe second stanza makes it clear that the narrator is a mother grappling with sadness after birthing her child. The first two lines, “we’ve earned the navels sunk in grief/ when the last child emptied us of their brief/ interior light,” is an obvious reference to the distended abdomen of a pregnant woman. However, the second clause is interesting in its reference to a baby as a “brief interior light”. Once the woman is “emptied” of her child, this light which illuminates her soul is gone, and the woman views her normal-looking belly as something which causes her grief, not something which should bring her joy, which would be suggested by the first stanza. The woman now sees herself as used, suggested by, “Our muscles say We have been used.” This is where the connection between the first and second stanzas is evident. The woman’s view of herself, twisted by years of patriarchal manipulation in the form of beauty standards perpetrated by mainstream culture, is incredibly poor, because she has traded her svelte figure and untorn hymen for a baby. Now that she is no longer pregnant, she views herself as merely used goods, having served her biological and societal purpose. If this woman were to continue down this path unabated, she will inevitably suffer from postpartum depression. (continued)
The third stanza suggests a reversal of the woman’s sadness and newfound agency over her sexuality. She describes trying silk sheets, an image loaded with sexuality. Silk sheets are not sold due to their practicality, in fact, they are highly impractical. One only purchases silk sheets, or silk anything for that matter, for the hedonistic pleasure they provide to their users. The sibilance of the phrase “silk sheets” is clear, repeating the long “s” sound in a manner almost pornographic in its sensuality. Silk sheets, then, represent the narrator’s decision to recommence her sexual life. She describes her motivation as, “persuaded by postnatal dread and a Macy’s clerk to bargain for more zip”. This woman, in the beginning stages of postpartum depression, fears most that she will no longer be viewed as desirable by her sexual partner and sees these silk sheets as a way to bring back her partner’s sexual interest that she fears is gone. However, these sheets end up doing more than just enable the narrator to have sex: they give her back her self-confidence. The last lines, which describe the silk sheets sliding off of her and her partner as they copulate, end with, “Enough of guilt—/ It’s hard work staying cool”. This makes it clear that the woman has become reimpowered, no longer beholden to the beauty standards enforced upon her and other pregnant women by society. She now owns her sexuality, saying so in a way that tells the reader that she no longer cares about anyone thinks about her regarding sex, and thus saving her from the postpartum depression she had grappled with due to societal standards forced upon her and all other women.
ReplyDeleteI don't think that the silk sheets are pornographic in nature. Although, their purpose is pleasure, sayying its primarily for sex is a stretch. If you have the money, you might want to buy silk sheets for the supreme comfort they provide, not in hope of attracting a mate. I don't believe that sheets make that much of an impact. No one is going to get aroused and head to the bedroom and say " I would if you had silk sheets" and leave. I have never owned silk sheets so I cannot prove this, but I don't think the material that your sheets are comprised of affect your confidence. I love the idea of her breaking free of the standards placed on her by society when she gives up on being "cool" that you addressed.
DeleteTo go along with Brooke and the many replies, the poem "Heroes" had a very different meaning to me. When I first read the poem I found no obvious meaning to it. However after reading it multiple times I came to a conclusion. I believe that the daughter had taken the flower for granted. Children are considered innocent and do not understand what sacrifices and secrets parents keep for their own protection. They also like to dig around and be nosy for information. The flower in my opinion was a representation of the mothers secrets that she keeps from the daughter to shield her from the reality and truth about the real world. When the daughter picks the flower she then reveals all of those secrets, good and bad. However when the daughter does this simple act she does not realize that she does wrong until the mother is seen overreacting. The mother realizes that when the daughter picked the flower her shield of protection had been taken from her. The mother then feels the need to humilate the child and "prop up the flower in the stolen jar" for everyone to see what wrong she was done. Also in the line "you have to take along, because you're a fugitive now and you can't leave clues" and with this I looked at this as the mother telling the child that she must suffer from the consequences with knowing these truths about certain situations. And with this the daughter must live with the consequence of not being able to share any information, which as we can relate to in real life is hard for little children not to do. I was wondering if anybody related to the story in the way I did and if not then did you interpret it a different way then previously stated from other classmates and myself.
ReplyDeleteWhile reading the poem Mother Love for the first time I automatically noticed the use of harsh t sounds. This made me think of an angry mother scolding her child. As I read on I began to notice the parallels between the poem and the story of Persephone and Demeter. The entirety of the poem is Demeter mourning Persephone and sending the mortal world into the long fall and winter months. In the last lines of the poem Demeter is described roasting a baby boy over a fire. This child's torture represents the torture people go through as they starve and lose their young children in the the harsh winter season. The fire imagery in the first and second stanzas refers to Persephone's life with Hades in the underworld. The use of enjambments in this poem represents the never ending pain of losing a child. The enjambments also show the never ending love a mother has for their child even if they are no longer with them. In a more modern setting this poem represents mothers of miscarried children who feel indirected hatred towards themselves and the the others in their lives. These mothers have all the emotions to care for a child but feel like they have no one to bestow it upon. These similar feelings are shown in the first lines of the first stanza, "Toss me a baby and without bothering to blink I'll catch her... the remedy for grief is being needed...". Without their children, mothers feel unwanted and full of grief. This grief can cause women to unleash emotions that may not be intended like Demeter's anger and torture on the mortal world.
ReplyDeleteNow that I look at Mother Love after reading your analysis, it makes much more sense. My initial reaction, however, was much different. It seemed like at the end the woman was using a stove to castrate a baby boy so that he 'might be cured to perfection.' I thought that the extreme form of hate for men that Rita Dove so clearly gets across was really just a hate for Hades. And that she developed her hate for Hades throughout the poem by using motherly imagery to comment on everything he had taken away from her.
DeleteAfter reading the poems from Mother Love, the poem “The Narcissus Flower” was the most intriguing in my opinion. The first piece of the poem that caught my eye was the interesting title. After doing some research, I realized that the term Narcissus is an allusion to the Greek Mythology story of Narcissus. Narcissus was a hunter who fell in love with himself after he saw his own reflection in a pool of water and later drowned because he could not leave the puddle. Additionally, the title is a pun because Narcissus is also a beautiful white flower. Both meanings of the title contribute to the interpretation throughout the poem that one’s innocence has been corrupted because Narcissus harms himself while a flower is delicate and can easily be torn. In the first stanza, Dove juxtaposes the negative and positive diction of “frivolous slipper/ a frightened bird” to illustrate how early in life, although there may be troubles, represented by the negative connotation of the word frightened, it is mostly confortable and fun, demonstrated through the comfort of the word slipper and the positive diction of frivolous. At the end of that stanza, Dove added, “not the earth unzipped” to convey that while someone is innocent, he or she is not aware of all the dangerous, harsh events of the adult world. The second stanza clearly illustrates one becoming aware of the dark parts of the world. Dove wrote, “but the way I could see my own fingers and hear /myself scream as the blossom incinerated.” Symbolically, the blossom incinerating indicates that one has lost their complete innocents. This may be sexual, as many of you have pointed out, or just being exposed to something negative. By writing that the speaker could hear him or herself scream, Dove illustrates that the speaker is helpless at this point and cannot do anything to prevent the loss of innocence. The next two stanzas discuss a “knife easing into/ the humblest crevice...” Knives are sharp objects that potentially anyone can be hurt by, even if they are being used for innocent purposes. The cuts caused by knives can be shallow or very deep, but often leave life long scars. Through the symbolism of the knife, Dove conveys that people cannot escape the effects of the darkness in the world, and the outcomes of the loss of innocence can impact a person for his or her whole life. The last two stanzas discuss how someone can overcome the results of loss of innocence; they need to be fearless. Dove uses the paradox of “live beyond dying” to demonstrate that there is a whole new life after this innocence. This life can be great and a person can become accustomed to the darkness in the world as shown through the lines “and become a queen/ whom nothing surprises.” This poem was exquisite in how it conveyed the loss of innocence. If anyone has other interpretations, feel free to add a comment!
ReplyDeleteThe poem titled "Exit" seemed to be easier for me to analyze than any of the others. It has a motif of leaving and beginning a new life. It was much like a coming of age, almost like the poem was about leaving for college. The second paragraph of the poem is when the leaving motif is very prominent. The first sentence mentions closing a window behind you, as if to mark a monumental change. Basically, there is no going back. Near the end of the second paragraph, it talks about the method of escape, which is the taxicab waiting, and the symbolic suitcase that is like cutting all ties to your past life, bringing everything of value, and leaving everything that isn't important. The passage shows that they were not the happiest to leave, as the suitcase was "the saddest object in the world".Finally, in the last line of the final passage, it talks about a mother teaching you " what it took to be a woman in this life". This is the coming of age I addressed earlier.
ReplyDeleteOne poem in Mother Love that I found particularly interesting was "Exit". In Exit, Dove is describing a daughter leaving her mother to start her own life. Originally it makes this new life sound sort of scary. Dove uses colors to convey this, describing the house you are leaving as pink, which could represent love or comfort, while describing the new world you are entering as gray, which seems drab or sad, especially in comparison. However, in the 3rd stanza, the clouds (despite being part of the "outside" world) are described as blushing, which seems contradictory to the last stanza where it was described as gray. This blush is compared to the blush "you" had when your mother gave you advice about living your new life. I think Dove's purpose here is to show that even though leaving home to start a new life can be scary, it can be easier if you keep home and what you learned while living there in mind.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading this, I can see exactly where you are coming from. I think the colors in this poem make sense with what you think they represent and I also like what you said at the end about how starting a new life can be scary because I think that is a very relatable situation that everyone will experience once in their life.
DeleteThe poem "Breakfast of Champions was quite confusing the first couple of times I had read it. After further reviewing the lines and comparing it to the others I had come to some conclusion. The tone of this poem is much more mellow compared to the others. When Dove writes, " a little dust on the laurel branch" she is writing about Demeter because gods or goddesses used to wear laurel wreaths on their heads. Demeter is much more content at what has happened to Persephone by the way she had "worked her way through pedals and sunlight" and how she will "dive into a grateful martini tonight." Demeter is not filled with hate but almost somewhat content that her daughter is gone. She also says, "Arise, it's a brand new morning!" This shows how she is no longer upset but trying to enjoy life.
ReplyDeleteYour interpretation is very interesting. I never think Demeter feels content with losing her daughter. However, I think this poem is more like Demeter overcome the sorrow due to loss of her daughter than just she feels content, because there are some lines that also sets depressed mood such as "...to find a place fit for mourning" or "...stones are what I sprinkle among the chaff." These lines throws darker tone between mellow lines, as you said. So I think Demeter has not completely overcame her sorrow but she is trying to do so.
DeleteWhen I first read poem "Wiederkehr" it was very hard to understand it. However, after re-read several times, I think that this poem might be about Persephone after she has kidnapped. "He" in the poem refers to Hades, who "only wanted me[Persephone] for happiness," and came up with this conclusion based on the tome of the poem and mythical motif in "Mother Love". In the poem Hades is described as who wants Persephone to not think and just receive his favor. Therefore, Persephone choose to leave when she has chance to do it. I interpreted this as oppression in American society and Dove's encouragement to resist against it. What Hades wants to Persephone is oblivious demonstrates male chauvinism. He kidnapped her for his pleasure and he never asks her opinion. When it says "I sat to hold the rain untouched inside me" I think it shows her sadness and grief that can't be cured. However, the poem also says ":when the choice appeared, I reached for it," which indicates Dove's encouragement to get out from this grief and resist against it. Also, wiederkehr means recurrence, or repetition. I think it shows both Persephone's repeated choice to leave as in the myth, and message that keep attempt to be free.
ReplyDeleteThe poem that caught my eye was definitely "Party Dress for a First Born." Mainly because of the first line. "Headless girl so ill at ease..." This line is somewhat of an oxymoron because someone ill is usually not at ease. Trying to tie the whole poem into this first line was very confusing. But after reading Josiah's post of sexual interactions in this poem, it has somehow connected. At a deeper possibility, the first stanza may be talking of having sex with a man. "I know...what you're thinking of/ nothing..." I think this can relate to society thinking nothing of sex and instead just doing it. No repurcussions taken into account. This event possibly could have happened before a party since in the second stanza it says "when I step out, disguised in your blushing skin". Maybe the deed just happened. But the relation of the topic Mother Love into this is clear because the child or daughter has a secret with the mother, said in the last line "Stand up: it will be our secret". With that line being the end, I'm curious to ask what could the secret be? And the bigger question is, why is it called "Party Dress for a First Born"?
ReplyDeleteThe poem I found most interesting in Mother Love was "The Bistro Styx". Like many of the other poems in this book, including "Narcissus Flower" and "Persephone, Falling," it contains many references to the ancient Greek myth of Persephone and Demeter; "The Bistro Styx" is different in that it subtly incorporates the myth into a realistic scene that could be taken literally. In the world of this poem, Hades is represented by a "brooding artist" who glorifies death in "appalling canvases,/ faintly futuristic landscapes strewn/ with carwrecks and bodies being chewed/ by rabid cocker spaniels." The use of violent imagery in the context of this poem's calm, cosmopolitan setting shocks the reader and reveals hints of mythic drama. The violence of the Persephone myth is also echoed in references to "a bone-white plate," "the heart plucked from the chest of a worthy enemy," and "bloody" wine. I also found it interesting that all of the negative imagery in this poem is connected to food -- the source of Persephone's curse. In addition, the use of rhyme in the ninth, eleventh, and twelfth stanzas conveys a sense of heightened emotion in the mother (Demeter) as she gradually realizes just how much "the artist" has taken control over her daughter's life and personality. Unexpectedly, Dove also refers to the Persephone myth's inapplicability to the identity of a modern woman, calling the daughter's current status "a cliché, and, what's worse, an anachronism." I think this poem is the most emotionally affecting of the group because it shows how real relationships can be distorted to the dramatic proportions of myth.
ReplyDeleteI found the poem "Party Dress for a First Born" most intersting to read out of the Mother Love poems. It has almost an eerie tone to it. Rita Dove begins by first writing " Headless girl so ill at ease on the bed, I know, if you could, what you're thinking of: nothing. I used to think that, too...". I found it very impactful how she describes the innocence of childhood here. The girl has no worries, cares, or thoughts and is going about life mindlessly. Then the mother's tone becomes cold and almost as if in regret of something, reminescing in the times when she, too, was innocent like that. The second stanza is where the poem becomes truly dark. The author starts to describe the dangers of men and it struck me as something that might be found in a horror movie. The emotion behind the description makes the reader instinctively think that something must have happened to make the mother so distrusting and hateful of men. The use of the flower symbol, once again, suggests that perhaps there may have been a time in the past where she was betrayed by men since the flower is generally used to refer to a woman's most deeply guarded gift. The use of the oxymoron of "elegant scissors" also reveals something about the nature of men in the narrator's eyes. They are elegant, smooth talkers on the outside, but on the inside they are wicked, crooked, and only seek to hurt. I found it very interesting how Rita Dove was able to incorporate this universal concept of human nature, that looks are deceiving, in such an intricate and subtle way into her poem. Overall, I think this poema had a very impactful message, leaving the reader with a sense of empathy for the mother as well as an eerie feeling that something will go wrong.
ReplyDeleteMy first time reading through Exit, I was under the impression that the story being communicated was about take a brief vacation. This conclusion is supported in the repetition of 'reprieve' and the image of opening a door onto a street 'like in the movies.' Since the Mother Love poems have an emphasis on mythology, I analyzed Exit under the assumption that it was about Persephone's relationship with her mother. I found that the most insight came from the second stanza. "Here it's gray; the door to the taxicab waits. This suitcase, the saddest object in the world." The color imagery is a reference to the underworld. Since sad suitcases mean unwanted travel, these three lines imply that though Persephone gets to take a break and spend time with her mother, she is sad to leave the underworld. This makes sense when you take into consideration her age. At 16, being queen of anything sounds like a pretty good deal. I think Rita Dove wrote Exit in order to comment on the difficulties that mother daughter relationships go through when the daughter approaches womanhood.
ReplyDeleteWhen I started reading Sonnet in Primary Colors, because it was talking about Frida Kahlo, I thought it was going to be mainly about art. However, it turns out that Rita Dove also shows that Kahlo was a communist. She wore the "stern petticoats of the peasant", symbolizing the peasants of the communist revolution. The poem goes on to talk about plaster corsets, which Kahlo wore because her spine was weak. She painted them covered in various objects, including a hammer and sickle. This demonstrates both Frida's art and communism. Lastly, she speaks of Kahlo's "beloved dead" being Lenin, Marx, and Stalin, Lenin and Marx being communists and Stalin running a country communist in theory. All three of these people died before Kahlo did, so it is not an anachronism. The "hundred dogs panting like children" illustrates the poor Kahlo was sympathetic to. (Kahlo was, in fact, a communist.)
ReplyDeleteAlthough there is a possibility that the poem is associated with Communism ( similar to how some of the Mother Love poems are associated with rape), I thought this poem mainly addressed the appreciation of women. For instance, the use of imagery describing parrots remarks Kahlo portraying women as standing out from the peasants, or other people of society, due to their beauty. The "petticoats," as well as other pieces of imagery that depicted poverty, contrasted women from others in society. There is alliteration in addressing the celluloid butterflies and imagery in the graveled walks that address the importance and beautiful nature of women, and how they contrast from others in society. The "hundred dogs panting like children" addresses, once again, women's contrast from men in society. The last few verses address Kahlo's destructive marriage with her husband Diego Rivera, in which Rita Dove states that Rivera's faith to her was "a skull in the circular window of the thumbprint searing her immutable brow." The use of harsh diction such as the comparison of their love to a skull or "searing" implies that Kahlo's husband only cared about her looks and worked to change them instead of appreciate them. The "circular window" is Rivera's tunneled and narrow mindset in which he only cares about his wife's looks. As a result, I felt this poem meaning takes more of a feminist approach than a socioeconomic approach like Communism. Although Kahlo was a Communist and Rita Dove added references to the Communist symbol, poverty, Lenin, Marx, and Stalin, the poem mainly addresses feminism. Rita Dove could be addressing Communist leaders to exemplify the need to make women appreciated and equal to others in society, comparable to the needs to redistribute wealth to overworked laborers.
DeleteI didn't even see the poem in this perspective before i read your blog post. Well done. I do agree with Corvyn where I think it is about more than communism and that it pertains to women, but overall, this was a brilliant analysis.
DeleteWhen I read "Canary," I interpreted it as a reflection on how blacks and women stand through oppression and restriction by inventing new ways to change contemporary ideas. This poem is dedicated to Billie Holiday, a jazz singer from the Harlem Renaissance whose voice and deviation from contemporary styles forever influenced the growth of jazz. Jazz is typically written with stressed upbeats, while this poem is written mostly in trochaic meter. The deviation from regular jazz meter symbolizes Holiday's deviation from normal styles of jazz. Her voice is signified as "burned," signifying her raspy tone when she sang. The first stanza contains contradictory words such as "shadows" and "lights," "mournful" and "sleek," and "gardenia" and "ruined." The contrast between words represents Holiday's life, which ranged from prostitution and drugs to influential singing. These contrasts signify Holiday's fluctuating life. The second stanza further characterizes Holiday's negative life, as the first line characterizes her as "cooking" drugs, and the second line references her drug abuse with the euphoric effects of the "magic spoon and magic needle," or heroin. The fact that she "takes all day with her mirror and bracelet of song" exemplifies her addiction, as she repeatedly goes through life with drugs, living under depression by looking into a mirror. The stanza is in parentheses because Holiday is ensnared and trapped in her addiction to do drugs. The next stanza emphasizes that the rise of influential yet depressed black women such as Billie Holiday due to their "seige," or oppression, causes people to create more stereotypes about women and blacks. The last line is a direct statement to the reader, in which Rita Dove inspires people to be a "mystery" if they are oppressed. I translated "mystery" as something unknown which incites curiosity and interest in discovering the enigma, which I thought was the method in which people cope with their oppression. Sparking interest invokes power, which allows people such as Billie Holiday to be influential while enduring the negative parts of her life. Lastly, I felt the title, "Canary," is symbolic of oppression against blacks and women, similar to how a canary is trapped in a cage. Let me know if you all had similar interpretations.
ReplyDeleteI interpreted the poem pretty much exactly as you did, except for the last line, where Dove writes directly to the reader, "If you can't be free, be a mystery." I felt that this line called towards masking an individual's entrapment, but not necessarily calling attention to it. Creating a mystery to oppression may just hide that oppression, and while that could be a coping method, it can also serve to only amplify negativity, as it goes unexplored and grows because it is never called out. When I read this line I felt Dove was more saying how an individual should be a mystery and create their own freedom, becoming a mysterious unique instant, rather than passively waiting for someone else to unravel this mystery and oppression and solve it for you.
DeleteI also agree with your interpretation of the first two stanzas. However, I disagree strongly with your interpretation of the title. The title, "Canary", is a clear allusion to the phrase, "a canary in a coal mine", which is something relatively minor that is a warning of an impending disaster. Billie Holiday's death at the hands of addiction, and, indirectly, fame, were relatively uncommon in the 1950s, the last decade that she was alive. However, this would later become much more common in American society. Think of all the celebrities that have succumbed to drugs and fame: Robert Downey, Jr., Lindsey Lohan, Charlie Sheen, Britney Spears, Angelina Jolie, Michael Jackson, Kurt Cobain, Whitney Houston... Some of these celebrities were able to recover their careers (Downey, Jr., Jolie), some are still alive (Spears, Lohan), and some died in a hotel bathtub high on coke. Whitney Houston's death was especially similar to Holiday's, as both died of overdoses after public battles with addiction, and both were famous for their incredible vocal talent. Dove wrote this poem to warn against the dangers of celebrity, and that's what the title is a reference to--the imminent danger to our beloved public figures posed by fame and drugs that Holiday's death represented.
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ReplyDelete"Catherine of Alexandria" is an interesting poem, as it's premise consists of how restricted the opportunities were for women in the era she existed. "Deprived of learning and the chance to travel" is a good example of how proper education and freedom to migrate were barred from the opposite gender, so many of the women at this time became devoted to religion. Catherine of Alexandria is known for her very strong belief in Christianity and her ability to convert others, even after death. She was depicted in many forms of artwork, primarily around the late medieval era. She is known as a "great martyr" in the orthodox church, and many depictions of religious sacrifice. The poem's structure is different form the other poems: there is an indent on each 2nd and 4th line on each stanza, indicating the significance and structure of how religion was meant to be: a structured set of rules that have to be followed with no other interpretations. The lines "...but Jesus. His breath of a lily. His spiraling pain" was interesting as it juxtaposes the passiveness of his speech and his suffering into two separate fragment sentences. What do you think the significance of this poem is? Does the biographical context of the character in mind help understand the idea of the poem?
ReplyDeleteThe biographical context of the character is what the poem is all about. I did some research and found that the Catherine that Rita Dove is referring to was sent to prison for converting to Christianity and denouncing Maxentius (the Roman Emperor at the time). Everyone she managed to convert, including Maxentius's wife, was sent to death. I think this poem is about Catherine's time in prison. The only part that doesn't seem to fit is the last stanza. "the nightshirt bunched above your waist- a kept promise, a ring of milk." A nightshirt bunched above a waist is a strong indication of sex. The reference to milk, however, made me think of motherhood. Perhaps this part would make more sense with a deeper understanding of Catherine's past. Anyways, I think Rita Dove wrote this poem because she admired Catherine's persistence in standing up for what she believed.
DeleteAs i was reading "Primer" and getting feedback from other people as to what they though the poem represented, it helped me develop a deeper understanding of the poem . I think the poem really emphasizes the idea of body image at a young age. by Dove using imagery to describe certain characters in the poem, the physical characteristics show how people were judged on their appearance and that determined certain traits about them such as being skinny or short trying to make it sound like they are not very dominant people. There are multiple references to appearance involving size in this poem. Body image problems have been an ongoing problem for girls and boys. In the time period that this was written, there wasn't as much attention in the media on young girls and body image than there is today, but do you think body image and self-confidence issues were as bad as they are today?
ReplyDeleteAfter reading "Tou Wan Speaks to Her Husband, Liu Sheng", I had some interesting impressions. Just a little bit about Tou Wan, she was the wife of Liu Sheng, Prince of Zhongshan, of the Western Han dynasty. During this time period, marriages were not created because of love, but for political and financial reasons for the respective families. The problem in this is that Liu Sheng died, leaving Tou Wan a widow. It begins by stating, "I will build you a house of limited chambers but it shall last forever". This statement represents the love that Tou Wan has for her husband. She is telling him that she does not have much to give as far as love, but her love for him will be endless and will last forever, even beyond death. The poem continues and elaborates on various items that are entailed in this house that Tou Wan will give to her husband. These items are symbolic of the different aspects of her love that she will present to her husband throughout her life, even while he is dead.It states though, "but you're bored". This is telling the reader that even though Tou Wan is so good in the way that she treats her husband and how she loves him, he is still unappreciative of her and does not care for him in the same way that she does. Through this poem, Rita Dove is attempting to illustrate the role that women held during the conformist era during the 1950s. Like Tou Wan, women were not married because of love but, because they were socially obligated to. Regardless of how they treated their husbands, they were not appreciated and were considered inferior to their male counterparts. This poem is really symbolic of the lesser treatment that women have experienced throughout time and the problems that are associated with that.
ReplyDeleteImmediately when I glanced at the poem "Sonnet in Primary Colors", i counted the sentences out of habit. I found it peculiar that it was only 13 lines, when sonnets are only 14. Also, this poem had a weird rhyme scheme. There was two lines without rhyming, then two that rhymed at the end, followed by 3 that did not rhyme followed by two that did rhyme, followed by two that did not rhyme, and concluded with two that did rhyme. At this point I recognized that Rita must have named it Sonnet for a symbolic reason. In the first sentence, it describes a woman with a black wing perched over her eyes which made me immediately think of winged eyeliner. In the following sentences it talks about standing out. It talks about painting herself a present which also relates back to make up. This made me relate back to the primary colors in the title because those can be used in makeup to stand out. Towards the end when it says a hundred dogs are panting, I think that represents men wanting her. Overall, I feel is this poem is about a young woman who feels like she needs makeup in order to attract partners and stand out.
ReplyDeleteI also noticed that the "sonnet" only had thirteen lines. The rhyme scheme that it has made me categorize it as a Petrarchan sonnet, which makes sense because Rita Dove beings with "this is for the woman with one black wing perched over her eyes: lovely Frida..." Dove also uses animals, or references to animals throughout the poem: "one black wing perched over her eyes," "parrots," celluloid butterflies," and "dogs panting." This is no doubt a reference to the many animals she kept - spider monkeys, an Amazon parrot, numerous other birds, and dogs. I also thought that the "one black wing" referred to Frida Kahlo's unibrow - a significant and well-known characteristic that she displayed in all of her self-portraits - her "immutable brow." It seems that the persona in this poem is someone who adores Frida greatly - the hundred dogs panting like children are like hundreds of admirers, the portraits of political leaders arrayed at her footstead are shown as less important, or looking up to her, since she was an active communist herself. Thus, I think that Rita Dove uses "Sonnet in Primary Colors" to express adoration for a crippled woman still able to create beauty within the constant pain of everyday life.
DeleteThat's a very interesting point Belinda. When I first read this poem, I had not made the connection between the dogs and admirers. I was confused on the significance of the historical figures mentioned in the context of the poem, but your interpretation makes a lot of sense. If the poem is in fact from the point of view of someone who adores her, then this could explain why Diego's love was referred to as a skull. To whoever is speaking, Diego is the thing standing between him and Frida. He wishes that Diego were gone, seeing his love with Frida as something that has died away and no longer exists.
DeleteI found the structure of this poem especially interesting because it involves more rhyme and a more consistent rhythm than most of Dove's sonnets, but its enjambment and missing line (as Belinda mentioned) create a sense of incompleteness that helps to complete the miniature biography of the mysterious Frida Kahlo. The two consecutive clauses at the beginning of the poem -- "in the stern petticoats of the peasant, who painted herself a present" both rhyme and contain similar syllable structure, suggesting Kahlo's inner confidence and search for balance. This uneven series of occasional couplets continues with "Beloved Dead"/"at the footstead" and "Diego's"/"window". Because these rhymes do not form a standard or consistent structure, it is possible that they represent the alternating periods of stability and insecurity in Kahlo's life -- regarding her health, her art, her love for Diego, etc. The fact that this sonnet contains only thirteen lines may refer to the fact that Kahlo's life could be considered incomplete due to her long periods of illness and early death at the age of 47. As a whole, this poem reminds the reader of the many facets and inconsistencies of Frida Kahlo's life by altering and shortening the traditional structure of the sonnet, just as Kahlo herself overcame many obstacles and defied the status quo through her art.
DeleteI agree completely with the fact that the poem is about her trying to cover up for something, but after reading about Frida Kahlo, I realized it wasn’t just about makeup like you said. She was involved in a serious bus crash and broke a majority of the bones in her body and remained in a full body cast for several months. Following the tragic accident, she never quite fully recovered and had relapses, forcing her to spend even more time in the hospital getting treated. I think the use of color like you said illustrates her trying to be portrayed differently (which is most likely why she did self-portraits). She doesn’t want to be seen as a crippled woman who could have once been beautiful. She wants to be seen like other women are seen by men, but the crash prevents that from happenings. So I believe, because of the history behind her life, that the poem is more about trying to make herself appear differently than she really does after the horrible crash.
DeleteThe poem "Tou Wan Speaks to Her Husband, Liu Sheng" characterizes the relationship between husband and wife in ancient China, which generally involved the wife being obedient and subservient. However, I noticed that she writes each poem as a sort of tribute to the women mentioned. Little is actually known about Tou Wan, other than the fact that she and her husband were the first to have been discovered buried in jade suits, which were believed to keep the malignant flesh of a dead body contained while the spirit journeyed onward. Even though Tou Wan must cater to her husband, she is still portrayed as a strong character, who isn't unsatisfied with the nature of her relationship with her husband. She refers to him as "my only conqueror," and "my constant emperor," showing the formal way of speech used between them. The vivid imagery, and the allusion to the jade burial suits, show an undying love that Tou Wan has for Liu Sheng, and that she is willing to be a servant without any reciprocation of care. What's also interesting is that because she says "I will build you a house," which means that the "house" doesn't actually exist during this poem, and to extrapolate, it seems that Rita Dove is suggesting that the idea for the jade suits came from Tou Wan herself, showing that she had created something that lasted for centuries as well as became an important historical artifact. Tou Wan is shown to the audience as a woman who loves her husband endlessly, rather than a woman in suffering due to the way marriages functioned in ancient China.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you entirely Belinda, and I believe that you hit the nail on the head. I do wish to elaborate on the message that Dove is attempting to illustrate in writing this poem. I believe Dove is attempting to critique American society in the 1950s, in which women were subjected to treatment that was ill-deserved. Many women much like Tou Wan, who gave their husbands love and respect, were rejected and unappreciated in return. These women were not treated at all how they should, and in this poem, Rita Dove attempts to emphasize the pain that they felt during this terrible time in American history. Tou Wan gave her husband never ending love, even after death, and in return she received nothing but pain and suffering.
DeleteI have to disagree - nowhere does it mention in the poem Tou Wan's "suffering" or "pain." People tend to think that a type of marriage like the one Tou Wan and Liu Sheng had would be unhappy, but that's only because of the huge cultural differences between the United States and ancient China. Rather, it seems that Tou Wan is accepting of the role that she has been placed in as a result of a specific culture. I think that instead of criticizing the treatment of women in the 1950s, Rita Dove may have been trying to show us that some women accept or even willingly live the life that was advertised to them. Nowadays, we think of housewives in a bad light, or in terms of oppression or inequality, but we just as often neglect to remember that some people to like that lifestyle. Your interpretation of what Dove means to show her readers makes a lot of sense - in fact, more sense than mine does, but my personal interpretation of the poem, as well as the emotions and mood the poem incites for me, are completely opposite.
DeleteBelinda, I agree with your interpretation of Tou Wan's undying love and how it is represented by the allusion to the immortal jade suits. In addition to the allusion, I think Dove uses enjambment and the description of the house to represent this sort of never-ending love. The idea of the house, especially, with its "limited chambers" but everlasting lifespan, encompasses Tou Wan's concept of devoting an infinite amount of love within a finite amount of time. However, I have to agree with Jared in that Tou Wan's devotion was met with a very limited amount of appreciation. You argued that the poem never mentions "suffering" or "pain," however, seeing that the poem is in Tou Wan's point of view, her inability to acknowledge suffering may be Dove's way of conveying how her devotion was blind, not painless. Although I don't necessarily think that Liu Sheng was physically abusive, the poem clearly hints that he did little to appreciate his wife's devotion. In the third stanza, where Tou Wan boasts how expensive the two bronze jugs are, she trails off into the next stanza where she flatly states, "but you're bored." The use of a period makes this particular line stand out even more, since it contrasts with all the enjambment used everywhere else. This statement marks a significant and unexpected change in tone, from passion to displeasure. Tou Wan quickly changes back to her original tone, however at this point, it is already clear to the reader that despite her obvious display of abiding love, Tou Wan receives little gratitude from her husband.
DeleteBefore I read Catherine of Siena, I looked up some background information on her, since the poem is on a historical figure, the same one referenced in the title. A few key facts I found was that Catherine of Siena is actually a saint, named one of the six patron saints of Europe by Pope John Paul II, notable for her political prowess and spiritual writings, all while being a woman in the 1300s. I thought iteself looked towards empowerment of women, as Catherine of Siena was a very powerful figure for women during her time, and the poem references her strength and deterministic ability, especially in the second to last line where it goes, "No one stumbled across your path". The poems also alludes to Catherine's influence, "you prayed until tears streaked the sky." This line is also significant with its imagery of tears in the sky, similar to a line preceding it, "the star-washed dome of heaven." The poem also includes elements of religion, specifically Christianity, referencing fate, heaven and prayer, which help to show the significance Catherine played for the Church. The last two lines also work to show how respected Catherine was and still is, "No one stumbled across your path. No one unpried your fists as you slept." No one stumbling across her path could mean that she led a very steady route and nobody who followed her could ever stumble, for it was so free to walk upon, but also that no one dared to stumble or cross paths with her robust writings. The last line interesting as well, no one unpried her fists as she slept, which I thought could be a reference as to how she was strong-willed and individualistic, accepting little assistance, but also how she never took a partner, thus being alone as she slept, exemplifying how a women does not need a man. Over, all I thought the poem was symbolic of Catherine's influences and embodied her impact as empowerment for women, especially during a time where women were regarded as inferior and lesser to men.
ReplyDeleteI found the poem "Sonnet in Primary Colors" most interesting out of this collection. I notived toward the beginning, the repetition of the letter "P" in "among the parrots in the stern petticoats of the peasant who painted herself a present". This gives the poem a sing song tone and almsot sounds like something out of a children's story. I found the line "wildflowers entwining the plaster corset" very interesting. It refers to Frida's largely immobile state in which she lay in bed in a cast after a terrible accident. The poem, however, portrays this as a beautiful thing. I think this is because this was the period of time in Frida's life when she was able to develop a lot of her artwork and passion for art. Also, the line "her spine lays in the romance of mirrors" refers to how, while her spine rendered her immobile, she found peace in making self portraits which she made while looking in a mirror. I also found Rita Dove's description of Frida's relationship with Diego Rivera in the line "Diego's skull in the circular window" very well chosen. This is because a lot of Frida's sorrow came from her troublesome relationship with Diego. This translates into the symbol of the skull which can represent how their love was something dark and toxic, something that would only cause them pain.
ReplyDeleteRita Dove's "Tou Wan Speaks to Her Husband, Liu Sheng" is a first-person narrative from the point of view of an ancient Chinese king's wife; like many of Dove's "biographical" poems, it explores a historical era from a speculative female perspective, commenting on the nature of (often-overlooked) women's roles during that era. In this poem, the speaker, Tou Wan, describes the royal tomb that will be constructed for her husband after his death as "a house of limited chambers...hewn in the side of stone for you, my only conqueror." Dove's emphasis on the "limited" nature of the monument highlights a certain level of restrained resentment in the relationship between Tou Wan and Liu Sheng. The fact that Tou Wan addresses Liu Sheng (probably within her internal monologue) as "my only conqueror" further suggests a sense of bitterness and oppression -- it may also refer to Tou Wan's fidelity to her husband, who, according to historical accounts, was an ineffectual, hedonistic king who kept many concubines. In reference to Liu Sheng's distractions, Dove mentions "a statue of the palace girl you most frequently coveted" for "those times in your niche when darkness oppresses" -- this reminder may represent Liu Sheng's objectification of women and present a tantalizing symbolic punishment for his soul. I also noticed the unusual (considering the poem's focus on death) amount of positive nature imagery; Tou Wan describes life after her husband's passing into the afterlife with phrases like "the peaks...drenched in sun" and "long light and clouds over the earth". These images suggest that Tou Wan is, on some level, ready for the peace and personal freedom that will accompany her husband's death. Overall, the most striking aspect of this poem was the juxtaposition of Tou Wan's quiet, immediate anger with the majestic peace of Liu Sheng's tomb, a memorial made with bitterness rather than love.
ReplyDeleteInterestingly enough, in researching the lives of Tou Wan and Liu Sheng, I found out that their jade burial suits, as they're called, were discovered together in 1968; their tomb was considered much more extravagant than most royal burial chambers, so the discovery became somewhat well-known. Among the assigned poems, "Tou Wan Speaks to Her Husband, Liu Sheng" is the only one that focuses on a non-Western historical figure. It's clear from many of Dove's works that she has intended to reimagine male-dominated history from a feminist viewpoint, but why do you think she chose this particular subject? Was she simply inspired by the mystery of the archaeological discovery, or is there another reason?
Rita dove definitely chose to create poem to describe how social norms from the ancient Chinese empire can still be seen in Rita Dove's time. Tou Wan was involved with forced marriage, a tradition done by much of the nobility in that time period. Most of these relationship arrangements were used to connect ties to various dynasties or, unfortunately, a bribe to ease feuding clans. It might not be as extreme in today's circumstances, but the premise of women being an object can still be seen today. A Male-dominant society has always been the norm, and Rita Dove uses the art of poetry to convey the idea from the opposite gender. Notice how almost all of Rita Dove's Historical Figures poems are written in a woman's perspective.
Delete“Sonnet in Primary Colors” was an interesting look into how Rita Dove balances her admiration of Frida Kahlo with her disapproval of communism. Dove’s admiration for Frida Kahlo is evident by the way she describes Kahlo in this poem, calling her “lovely” and “erect among parrots”. This second description elucidates Dove’s reasoning behind her rejection of communism. Dove dislikes communism because of the way it diminishes the uniqueness of individuals, and Dove, at heart, is an individualist. This is why Dove loves Frida Kahlo; Frida Kahlo is the definition of an individual. It is the uniqueness of Frida Kahlo, her “black wing/ perched over her eyes,” that makes her such a great figure in Dove’s eyes. However, Kahlo’s communist affiliations are what Dove has written this poem about. The intersection of Kahlo’s individualism and communism is like trying to blend oil and water together: an ultimately fruitless endeavor. Dove writes of this, “Each night she lay down in pain and rose/ to her celluloid butterflies… Lenin and Marx and Stalin arrayed at the footstead/ And rose to her easel, the hundred dogs panting.” Dove does not view these communist leaders favorably, hence her metaphor comparing them to “panting dogs”. She sees Kahlo as too good for communism, and the dog metaphor diminishes the humanity of the communists while making Kahlo seem even more powerful in comparison to them. This power comes from her ability to be herself, something the communist leaders lack. In “Sonnet in Primary Colors”, Dove shows her admiration of Frida Kahlo’s individualism and her rejection of communism through the use of metaphors and imagery.
ReplyDeleteI definitely agree with your interpretation of "Sonnet in Primary Colors". I think that Dove's purpose was to focus on individualism, and she used the uniqueness of Kahlo as an example. The quote about "black wings perched over her eyes" exemplifies the strange and unique style of Kahlo's paintings, which always depicted her with thick black eyebrows. I also agree that the part about "panting dogs" is a jab at the communist leaders, which makes it clear that Dove is against communism. I also think that the title shows this very well. I think that the purpose of "primary" in the title is to represent the strictness of communism, which limits individuality, whereas the use of "colors" shows the creative and unique side of Kahlo.
DeleteThe first time I read the poem Catherine of Siena, I did not have any historical background information on the figure, I just wanted to see what kind of interpretation I got from reading the poem without any prior background information. As I read the poem I looked at it not only in the figuratively but also in a literal way. In the first stanza, I looked at it as someone who is a lonely and was searching for someone to love. During their journey they experienced an obstacle which is represented by the Boulder. When it says "you struck the Boulder at the roadside/ since fate has doors everywhere. Under the Star-washed dome/ of heaven warm and dark." I thought of it as someone who what is on their way to look for someone to love when then they got in a crash of some sort and died and went to heaven. In the second stanza when it says "...on cedar/ shelves back home in your/ father's shop you prayed/ until tears streaked the sky.", I thought of it as someone who died and prayed that their family would be alright without them and that when the "tears streaked the sky", that is when the family finds out and it crying and mourning for the loss of someone. In the last line when it says "no one unpried your fists as you slept.", I got an immediate image in my head of someone laying in a coffin in a funeral with their arms in fists as they "slept". Again, this was my interpretation of the poem before getting background information. After doing research, I looked at the poem more as a power statement about woman, and the poem demonstrates that woman can be independent, and dominant figures in society. For example when it says "no one stumbled across your path", I thought of that line as illustrating that there was a strong woman and no one would get in her way or "stumble across her path". I believe that you can look at this poem from multiple perspectives.
ReplyDeleteYou have a very strong interpretation that has good insight and application of the poem. However, I had researched prior to reading the poem and found a different interpretation of it about Catherine of Siena's death. Her biography states that Catherine had been consistently fasting claiming it was an uncontrollable illness of hers. Her "illness" could be described in the poem as "the boulder" which leads her to her fate, death. The boulder in the poem is what strikes her similar to her fasting problem. The poem then describes her being "Under the star-washed dome of heaven" also referencing a near death or closeness heaven. Catherine may also have been recalling her childhood as she was aware of her illness, shown through the quote, "the woolens stacked on cedar shelves back home in your fathers shop." Then as the poem describes her as "prayed until tears streaked" and "No one stumbled across your path," it represents her prayers for God to heal her illness, which caused tears, and the lack of help received from people for her issue and her slow but inevitable death.
DeleteAfter reading "Tou Wan Speaks to Her Husband, Liu Sheng," I was able to make several observations. First, I noticed how Tou Wan is speaking to her husband, who is already. I concluded this in the fourth stanza where Dove said, "Here when the stench of your own diminishing drives you to air..." It is common knowledge that after a person dies, as their body decays, it begins to smell within a short amount of time. Also, I observed how Tou Wan is trying to speak to his spirit and prove that no matter what she is there for him. She explains how he meant the world to him and he is "my only conqueror." Not only does this poem represent their eternal relationship, but it also uses imagery to describe the tomb that she has prepared for Liu Sheng. I believe that when she's describing the rooms and areas of the "house," it's actually describing the architecture of their tomb. I've come to this conclusion based on my research of the historical figures. Although there wasn't much information on Tou Wan, it was know that the tomb had a "house like construction," which was built to imitate the outside world. Lastly, this poem speaks about "the journey." This is a reference to the journey that it will take for Liu Sheng to reach the afterlife. I believe this because he was a prince, and any higher power in Chinese or Asian culture tends to have a strong relationship with a higher power.
ReplyDeletePlease let me know how you interpreted this poem!
I totally agree with out interpretation. I think Tou Wan definitely talk to his dead husband, and it is also explained in the part where it says "and for your body... a suit to keep the shape of your death..." However, I think Dove probably wanted to focus on Tou Wan's suffering from serving her dead wife than their eternal love. In ancient China, wives should not left their husband even if they are dead. I think Dove also reflected this fact int his poem because essentially this poem is all about what Tou Wan would do to his dead husband. There are not many parts that talk about their love. So what I think is that while it is a love poem of Tou Wan, Dove also wanted to focus on suffering of women who left and had no choice but serve for him even after he is dead,if it makes any sense...
DeleteI find your interpretation to be very interesting! I agree with the idea of Tou Wan constantly wanting to show the spirit of her dead husband that she still is there for him. What interested me about your take on the poem though, was the idea of the house Tou Wan speaks of actually being a tomb. I wonder though, whether Tou Wan is more waiting for her afterlife to be with her husband, or if she believes herself to have died with him?
DeleteYea Seul, now that I have read your interpretation, I have to agree with your perspective on their relationship. I agree that when you look further into the poem, it doesn't speak much of their love, and it could represent her suffering. Thanks for sharing, I wouldn't have thought this if it wasn't for you!
DeleteI also agree with your interpretation. The first time that I had read this poem, I did not think the house was his tomb, only just a house. After I had looked at it again, I noticed the mentioning of jade. When I was looking up Tou Wan, the website had said that their tomb was one of the first jade tombs. That is when I discovered how much the poem related to the afterlife. I had noticed that she was describing her husband going through all of the different rooms. These rooms started to become progressively more darker and related to the stages of afterlife. I thought that it was her speaking to her dead husband because he is the only one being described as going through this journey and not them together.
DeleteI think irony on "Nestor's Bathtub" is very interesting. Essentially this poem is talking about Nestor and his wife, who suffered from hard labor to support him. However, his achievement ruined their house. It is clear that destroyed house was his fault, at least in the poem because it says "look how they fell, blasted by the force of olive oil exploding in the pot..." which illustrates oil explosion was the reason their house was ruined and the olive oil jar symbolized his achievement. However, in the last stanza it describes that the bathtub, which is Nestor's possession, is the only item left in the ruin. It is very ironical because while his wife, who supported Nestor in their house lost everything, Nestor's possession, or his legend is standing there. I think what Dove wanted to critique in the poem is how myths and legend were based on male chauvinism and brings out unspoken stories of women who supported men.
ReplyDeleteAdmittedly, I myself do not know more than the basics of a communistic style government, so it came as a surprise to me when reading Sonnet in Primary Colors, that this was the poem that seemed the clearest to me. The first thing I noticed though, was that this proclaimed "sonnet" was actually not a sonnet at all, it presented only 13 lines. I found this very odd until I read the poem and its view towards communism. From the line when Frida, "rose to her easel, the hundred dogs panting." I found this to be a dig towards the communistic view point. The use of a dog as a literary device generally depicts a blind devotion such as how a puppy may wish to please their owner. This subservient nature also seemed to be aimed towards the entirety of the communist population. It brings up the idea that one is on top, while the others are all below, all of them equal, all of them the same. The references to, "one black wing", and "wildflowers entwining the plaster corset" give off the idea that not everything is as it seems. A corset is a medieval mold to form the wearer into the idea of a perfect body. The process itself, is actually very painful. The use of wildflowers, is almost used to mask the bad, to hide its undesirability so others will remain willing. Also, "one black wing" reminded me of the yin and the yang, all of the good, and all of the bad. Even though for everything bad, there is good, the tone of this poem seemed to try to bring out the negative, or the one black wing. Reiterating on the idea of this "sonnet" being only 13 lines, off of own personal interpretation, I believed it to be a sense of irony. Using the idea that shows how all the communistic people are equal, and even the same, the poem itself is very different. This thirteen line sonnet, would not fit in with that of fourteen lined ones. I wonder if this is Rita Dove's way of showing her discontent with this idea of everyone fitting in a mold? I'd love to hear some of your guys' take on that.
ReplyDeleteThe poem that stuck out to me most was "Catherine of Alexandria". Similar to Alexis's previous comment, I noticed a strong sexual context throughout the poem. Starting in the second stanza, Dove writes, "in your bed- and what went on each night was fit for nobody's ears but Jesus'." This quote could be interpreted in many ways, however I interpreted it as Catherine having some sort of sexual encounter with herself. This seems to be a strong sex reference that continues to the fourth stanza, stating, "the nightshirt bunched above your waist." Dove, using strong sexual context and imagery, is depicting a different image of Catherine of Alexandria that contrasts her sainthood. However, the sexual references also emphasize her single relationship with God and Him being her only lover. The poem also says, "a kept promise, a ring of milk." The promise described here is Catherine's vow to be married to God. In Catherine's biography, it discusses how strongly Catherine believed in marriage to God and no one else, which even caused her death from refusal to marry the Roman Emperor. The ring of milk, could be another sexual symbol. Overall, I believe Rita Dove wrote about Catherine of Alexandria in sexual context and imagery to create a contrast to her saintly being and emphasize her relationship with God. Did anyone else notice the string sexual references or interpret them differently?
ReplyDeleteWhen I first read the poem, "Catherine of Siena," I did not know what it was about. After I analyzed the poem, I thought it represented what the people around her saw when she walked down the street, no one wanting to touch her because she was such a holy saint. I noticed that there were no words that rhymed with each other and I thought of this meaning that the poem was very serious and had an important meaning because of this. After I read the poem some more, I thought that the poem was her speaking after she had died. I thought this because of the last two lines in the last stanza, "No one stumbled across your path. No one unpried your fists as you slept." I found out that after she had died her body was not disturbed for a very long time, that is one of the reasons that I thought this poem was of her dead. I also noticed that the words used were dark, which I also connected to death because death is dark and not very many happy words are used to describe someone's death.
ReplyDeleteWhen reading the poem “Canary” the first thing that caught my attention was Dove’s title choice. An English idiomatic expression “A caged canary will sing”, depicts Billie Holiday and her agonizing life. A canary in a cage, when lacking company and attention, will spend his time announcing his presence to the world through song. I believe the troubled jazz singer expressed her voice through music. In the beginning of the poem, Dove refers to Holiday’s “burned voice”. This is the insinuation that her voice was ruined by the heroin that she had done throughout in her life. The quote “Now you’re cooking drummer to bass, magic spoon, magic needle…” is in parenthesis because the music industry was unaware of her abhorrent heroin use. Dove refers to her “signature gardenia under that ruined faced”. Holiday wore a gardenia in her hair for every performance. One night, she was curling her hair for a show and burned it. One of her fellow performers went to get her a flower to cover it. Holiday said she had never felt more beautiful and wore it every time she sang. The gardenia was a distraction to hide her face that was not full of peace and contentment, rather full of self-destruction and heartache.
ReplyDeleteThe poem also refers to Holiday’s “bracelet of song”. Ironically, the word bracelet is slang for handcuffs. Billie was arrested for illegal use of narcotics and was handcuffed to her hospital bed when she died. The last line of the poem “If you can’t be free, be a mystery” is alluding to the reality that Billie Holiday never felt free of her erratic past of abandonment and prostitution. To be a mystery, suggests one must wear a mask to appear unaffected by the past or present surroundings. Billie Holiday’s continued use of illegal drugs was used to mask the pain of her past.
I think you have an excellent intrepretation of this poem. Before reading your insight, I only understood how the poem referenced Billie Holiday and how she was an addict. Clearly you did lots of research and were able to connect lots of the poem to her life. I also found it intresting how you explained how the bird will sing if it's lacking attention. This is very clear and I'm happy that I can understand this poem better now! Thanks Tyler.
DeleteI agree with Brooklyn aswell. I was hoping that somebody would blog in detail about this poem because I was very confused on what a couple of specific things meant. For example I really liked your explination of the Gardenia in her hair. At first when I read the poem I didnt understand why the gardenia was "under" her ruined face, but when I looked at your explination and the research that went with it I realized that she used it as a way to cover up her unhappiness. Over all good job in your connections with the research and the poem.
Deletewhen i first read the poem i had no knowledge that she was an addict. my first though was that she was a singer that was used to bring joy to others but was never free to be a singer on her own. my first thought was that her songs allowed her to be heard and brong joy to others, but like a songbird, she was caged by others and had to bend to the will of others and sing for them instead of being free. your interpretation is wonderful and has brought a new understanding and different thoughts to my mind
DeleteWhile color marking and annotating the Historical Figure poems, I realized that, after I had researched Catherine of Alexandria, I had compared her life to the Tou Wan Speaks to Her Husband, Liu Sheng. So instead of taking notes on that poem while thinking about the history behind the wife of a Chinese prince of the Western Han dynasty, I was comparing to the life of Saint Catherine. Even though these two historical figures are not very closely related, or so I don’t think, there were a remarkable number of similarities between the two.
ReplyDeleteIn the poem that’s supposed to be about the Chinese wife, I noticed that it could fit Saint Catherine talking to Christ, her lover. Conqueror and emperor are sued several times to describe the person being talked about, and since Christ was the only person more beautiful than Catherine and he was whom she lost her virginity to, I thought that she could be speaking to Christ, not the Chinese wife speaking to her husband.
The house of limited chambers spoken of in the beginning that shall last forever is a building for Christ that she would build. It would be like the one she was built following her death at the command of emperor Maxentius.
Also, the hunters pursuing an animal could symbolize all the men who wanted to be with Saint Catherine because she was so beautiful. The animal is described as sacred, like Saint Catherine was.
What this all illustrates is that, although the historical figures themselves aren’t related, the way in which Rita Dove portrays them in her poems shows that they are. Most of them suffered a tragic accident early on in life which shaped the way they lived the rest of it and this is brought up in a majority of the poems. It’s interesting to me how the only way I stumbled this idea was messing up my work and interpreting a poem in a somewhat incorrect way. I’m still upset though that I need to redo both the poem Catherine of Alexandria and Tou Wan Speaks to Her Husband, Liu Sheng.
Just like Abby I interpreted the poem “Catherine of Siena” from the perspective of her already being dead. Throughout the whole poem Rita Dove wrote about her as if she was summing up her life and talking to her in heaven, and since she was a saint it would only make sense for her to end up in heaven after her life. In the first line when she states, “You walked the length of Italy to find someone to talk to”, I connected this to the great journey that she took throughout her life. On this journey, she spread her views of God with all of the people she met along the way. Also I believe that in the line “You struck the boulder at the roadside…” refers to all of the hardships that she faced in her life. When researching I found that she had tried very hard to get the pope back from France and return him to Italy, and with this, I believe that this was the bump in the road for her. When she noticed the bump, she saw the opportunity that arose from it and decided to attempt at returning the pope back, which in the end turned out to be in her favor. In the next line, Dove talks about St. Catherine’s life on earth but then refers to her “praying until tears reached the sky”, and with this my interpretation was that she felt that she would be better if she were to be in Heaven with God. Therefore St. Catherine prayed over and over until she eventually made her way up to heaven. In the last two lines it says, “No one stumbled across your path. No one unpried your fists as you slept”, and for me this meant that nobody objected her decision to leave the earth to be with God and nobody tried to stop her from praying for this because they knew that this was what she wanted. Lastly the emphasis of her sleeping in the last line was what led me to believe that she was indeed dead and that Rita was telling her how she arrived in heaven.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you completely, Cassie. This poem seems to be told after Saint Catherine has died. The line “You walked the length of Italy” is reference to both her journey of life and the actions she took in her life, traveling and spreading the word of god. Additionally, I agreed that the line about the boulder referenced the struggle she overcame in her life. In addition to her attempts to wanting to move the pope back to Italy, she had siblings die and was almost forced to marry her sisters widower, a man she did not like. Lastly, although I like your interpretation of the last two lines, I interpreted something different. I felt those two lines were meant to illustrate Catherine’s perseverance; she overcame any obstacles and subsequently achieved greatness.
DeleteThe poem in Historical Figures that struck me as most interesting was "Nestor's Bathtub". At first read, the poem seems to be about the over indulgence and possible adultery of Nestor's wife. However, as I analyzed the poem further my interpretation changed. I believe that the first stanza of this poem is about the labor of Nestor's wife in the bath of Nestor, the second about the destruction of Nestor and his wife's home, and the final about the remains of their home. When I first read "Nestor's wife was the one to crouch under jug upon jug of fragrant water poured until the small room steamed", I interpreted it as Nestor's wife having the fragrant water poured on herself. However, after rereading, I think that this quote is actually about Nestor's wife crouching under the pots in order to pick them up. This stanza also tells of how Nestor's wife scrapes the dirt from "a lover's back" (which may or may not be Nestor's). Both of these quotes convey images of labor, and how Nestor's wife worked hard while he was away at the Trojan wars. In the second stanza, which is about the destruction of Nestor's home by fire, Dove writes "jars spilled from the second floor, oil spreading in flames to the lady's throne". This is interesting to me, as it talks about Nestor's wife's throne rather than his. This is to show that everything that distinctly belonged to Nestor's wife was destroyed in the fire. In the final stanza, it is stated that one of the only things to remain after the fire was the bath, which is strangely described as "voluptuous". I think the purpose of this is to make the bath seem more feminine, as it was used more often by Nestor's wife than by himself. I think this poem is about how, despite the fact that what's left of the house was used more by Nestor's wife, it's still remembered as "Nestor's Bathtub", as shown by the title. This shows a certain dominance of man in history and how we remember the past events of our history.
ReplyDeleteAs I was reading through the poems assigned for homework, one in particular stood out to me. Because Frida Kahlo is one of my all time favorites, I knew right away that "Sonnet in Primary Colors" is about her. Before analyzing the poem, it is important to know a bit of background information on Frida. She spent her whole life in Mexico City. A bus accident that broke her spine, collarbone, ribs, pelvis, right foot and leg, and shoulder rendered he immobile for 3 months. During that time she began to paint and didn't stop until she died in 1954 at the age of 47. Her favorite thing to paint is herself because she is "so often alone and because I am the subject I know best." Haled as an icon for female creativity, Kahlo is loved modern day feminists because her work is honest; Fridah never fails to leave out her signature unibrow (“the woman with one black wing perched over her eyes.”). Shortly after the accident she was married to fellow communist and painter, Diego Rivera. From what I gathered from the poem, Rita Dove admires Kahlo for all of the same reasons that everyone else does; she was a strong and creative female in a time where something like that was unheard of. In the line “who painted herself a present--wildflowers entwining the plaster corset her spine resides in the romance of mirrors,” ‘plaster corset’ refers to the cast Frida undoubtedly had to wear post accident. The fact that she painted herself in it shows a confidence and acceptance not many have. Dove also commented on her political beliefs. “celluloid butterflies of her Beloved Dead, Lenin and Marx and Stalin arrayed at the footstead.” Celluloid is a tough, highly flammable substance consisting of cellulosenitrate and camphor, and is used in the manufacture of motion-picture and x-ray film. I interpreted ‘celluloid butterflies’ in this line as Kahlo’s passionate views on communism. Frida was creative, passionate, and stuck to her beliefs, something that Dove admired enough to write a poem about. My interpretation of this may be skewed by my already biased opinion on Frida, did anyone take it in the opposite direction?
ReplyDeleteAlexis, I agree with you. The sonnet has the theme of strong admiration of Frida Kahlo, a beautiful woman who stands out from other peasants with her paintings. The persona uses imagery to describe a "lovely Frida"...."in stern petticoats". The beauty portrayed by the persona is a strong admiration of her although she is mourning the loss of "her Beloved Dead". I think the loss that this poem is referencing is the two miscarriages that she had with her husband. Great interpretation of this poem.
DeleteI had never thought of this poem in this way before, but I now agree with you. The use of communism in your interpretation was quite interesting and it makes sense considering Stalin and Marx and Lenin are mentioned in the poem. But what I want to know is why? What was so important about incorporating communism into the poem? My guess is that Dove thinks of communism as a system that can become out of control or dangerous, just like celluloid catching on fire. I also agree with you that Dove wrote this in admiration of Kahlo and how she was so influential to women, showing that no matter what you look like you can still be confident enough in yourself to be beautiful. Men admired her for that and I think Dove was attempting to tell women to do exactly that to be happy in their own skin.
Deleteupon reading Nestor's bathtub for the first time, i had the thought that Rita Dove was criticizing his wife. in mythology there are many stories told about great fighters that would take slave women from the place they were trying to conquer. these women would replace their wives that were alone back at home. in the poem, "hid wife with her white hands scrape the dirt from a lover's back with a bronze scalpel" creates the image that his wife was sneaking around behind Nestor's back. this is different from the original stories that tell of the husband cheating on the wife. in every stanza, Rita Dove starts it with a line about legends. i believe Rita did this to make a point that legends are not always true and that each legend changes over the years and new version is said each time the legend is repeated. Rita Dove also mentions the importance of olive oil. with the greeks, the number of jars of oil would show their wealth. Rita Dove makes a point that wealth can be good but can also be the reason for the destruction of ones life. in the poem, Rita writes "blasted by force of olive oil exploding in the pot" which shows her point in how deadly wealth can be. the title helps support Rita's view on that women are not as loyal and innocent as many stories portray them as. the poem says that only the bathtub stands which is where Nestor's wife would bathe Nestor in oil. that bathtub was more likely also use to bathe her lover's that visited while her husband was away. having the bathtub be one of the only surviving objects help portray Rita Dove's thoughts that women are just as wicked and disloyal as men.
ReplyDeleteI also noticed the motif of oil and wealth throughout this poem.Though I believe they were used for a different effect. The items that were left after the destruction of Nestor's home were belongings that would typically be found in the homes of the wealthy. For example, the bathtub, jars of oil and the thousands of cups. I believe that Rita Dove was trying to convey that people are only remembered for the things they left behind; like the ruins in Greece that still stand today. No one in this world is remembered if they do not leave some sort of impression on their environment. In this case Nestor's impression was his bathtub and the fire that burned the home surrounding it to the ground.
DeleteIn Rita Dove's "Canary," I noticed that she used contrasting imagery, structure, and figurative language to explain how Billie Holiday coped with her destructive past and her drug addiction. The poem starts with light imagery juxtaposed with dark imagery. For example, Dove writes that Holiday's "burned voice has as many shadows as lights, a mournful candelabra against a sleek piano." This contradicting juxtaposition represents how Holiday was a living contradiction herself. She was revered as a great jazz singer, but at the same time, many described her voice to be poignant, which most likely originated from her past experience with prostitution and rape. It is also strange that she was nicknamed "Lady Day," considering her horrific past and present struggle with drugs. I also noticed how the number of stanzas goes from four, to two, and then to one; each time the stanza get cut by half. This could represent how Holiday's drug use cut her down, since it eventually led to her death at 44 years old. The final line, in which Dove writes, "If you can't be free, be a mystery," could explain why Holiday turned to drug use in the first place. Holiday was imprisoned not only by her haunting past, but also by the undermining stereotypes for women. In the previous stanza, Dove writes, "Fact is, the invention of women under siege has been to sharpen love in the service of myth." To Dove and Holiday, the stereotype of women living at the mercy of men exists to enforce a tradition view of marriage in which a strong man protects a weak woman. The bitterness towards this stereotype is emphasized by the phrase "fact is." In essence, this stereotype is more like a fact of life than a cliché; women are diminished, or "cut down," to simply just weak members of society. Because of this oppressing fact, Holiday cannot truly be free so she decides to be a "mystery." I interpret a mystery as something that the majority cannot understand. Since drug use is something that is difficult for many people to cope or come to terms with, Holiday's use of drugs was the mystery she used to cover up the oppression she constantly faced.
ReplyDeleteI feel the drugs have a major significance in this poem as well. The "burned voice" may have been caused by drugs. The "ruined face" also comes about from the use of cigarettes, which were popular in that time period. "Cooking" can refer to a lot of things, most likely the making of drugs, although it could also refer to smoking them. The "magic needle" refers to drugs being injected into the body. All of this leads to Holiday being a "mystery", too far lost in drug addiction to bring back.
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ReplyDeleteWhile reading the poems in the collection, Historical Figures, "Catherine of Alexandria" stood out to me the most. The first line of the poem describes Catherine as "Deprived of learning" after doing some research I found that Catherine was a scholar and a princess. From this I determined that Catherine was not deprived of learning in the traditional sense. It would not make sense for her to be deprived of knowledge in social situations either due to her standing in society. After reading Olivia's post and learning that Catherine was betrothed to a roman prince it made even more sense that Catherine would have lacked sexual knowledge in the time period she was alive. Her father would have also wanted her to remain pure so that her husband could not return her to her family if he did not want her. In Rita Dove's poem "Catherine of Alexandria", a woman takes control of the one aspect of her life available to her through masturbation.
ReplyDeleteThe poem that stood out to me the most from Historical Figures was Canary. This poem was inspired by the life of famed jazz singer Billie Holiday, highlighting the obstacles she faced in her life. In the first stanza, Dove uses opposite imagery to convey the demons Holiday faced. The juxtaposition of shadows and lights indicates that Holiday felt the memories of her troubled past in her success; she was in the dark even during happy times. Additionally, the comparison of mournful and sleek demonstrates Holiday’s haunted mind inside a glamorous exterior. Furthermore, the negative diction of “ruined face” in the fourth line shows Dove’s belief that one cannot escape there past; its scars will stay with a person forever. The next stanza is interesting because it is in direct relation to Holiday’s legal troubles. During a time of success, Holiday was arrested for using narcotics. This is referenced when Dove wrote, “(Now you’re cooking, drummer to bass, / magic spoon, magic needle” . Through first line of the second stanza, “(Now you’re cooking, drummer to bass,”
ReplyDeleteDove illustrates that even with music in her life to help her move past her issues, she still is using drugs. The next line, “, / magic spoon, magic needle” indicates that the narcotics were powerful to Holiday; they provided a “magical” escape to her past that haunts her. In the third stanza, Dove uses consonance of the “s” sound. This sound is very prolonged yet sharp. By using the consonance of “s”, Dove illustrates that Holiday still feels the effects of her past and these effects are still severe. Additionally, by writing, “Fact is, the invention of women under siege/ has been to sharpen love in the service of myth” Dove illustrates that Holiday and women from the same circumstances feel attacked from all sides and feel like objects. The last line, in my opinion seems to be a reference to the title of the poem, Canary. Canaries in many cases are caged birds, but are also very valuable. By using this title, Dove illustrated that inside, Holiday had extreme worth; she was talented and a good person. Her inner value was held in by the cage, which, in this case, would be Holiday’s rape, prostitution, and drug and alcohol abuse. The last line of the poem, “if you can’t be free, be a mystery.” references this title. The title shows that Holiday was not free throughout her adult life. Dove seems to be suggesting that if a person cannot escape his or her past, hide it from his or herself and others to try and get past the issues that restrain the person.
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ReplyDeleteI had never thought of this poem in this way before, but I now agree with you. The use of communism in your interpretation was quite interesting and it makes sense considering Stalin and Marx and Lenin are mentioned in the poem. But what I want to know is why? What was so important about incorporating communism into the poem? My guess is that Dove thinks of communism as a system that can become out of control or dangerous, just like celluloid catching on fire. I also agree with you that Dove wrote this in admiration of Kahlo and how she was so influential to women, showing that no matter what you look like you can still be confident enough in yourself to be beautiful. Men admired her for that and I think Dove was attempting to tell women to do exactly that to be happy in their own skin.
ReplyDeleteThe poem that I found interesting to read was Rosa. This is a strong piece of history about a courageous, African American woman who initialed a new era in the crusade for equal rights. In the first line of this poem “How she sat there” is a very powerful opening. Dove is really trying to get the reader to feel that moment when Rosa Parks was told to give up her seat on a bus to a white person. In the following line “the time right inside a place”, the time is referring to 1955. This verse is essentially saying the time (in history) was right and so was the place. This event took place in Alabama where racial segregation was higher than any other place. This supports the last line of this stanza. Dove says “so wrong it was ready”. “So wrong” is referring to racial segregation and “it was ready” is referencing that Alabama was ready to have someone stand up for civil rights. The next stanza starts off by saying “That trim name”. I believe that Dove is referring to Rosa Park’s name as being a simple, short name. The enjambment line goes on to say “with its dream of a bench to rest on”. Rosa Parks is being referred to as “it” and her dream is that all people will have equal rights. She was refusing to get up from a bus bench, so this dream of hers was going to rest on the bench that she was refusing to give up. Another line that stood out to me was the first line of the third stanza, “Doing nothing was the doing”. Dove is referring to “nothing” as Parks not moving and refusing to give her seat to a white person. This action was the “doing” that changed the way Americans live today.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with your interpretation. The structure and word choice used by Dove really illustrates how powerful the simple action committed by Rosa Parks was. One line that stood out to me was where Dove wrote, "…when they bent down to retrieve her purse. That courtesy.” Picking up Rosa's purse shows courtesy in the wrong context. If the statement had been written about a white woman, it would be considered true, however since this is to Rosa Parks, it shows obvious sarcasm. The white police are the opposite of courteous throughout this time in history. Ending the poem with sarcasm is very powerful in the sense that it elicits the reader to truly see the lack of morals and mixed up priorities the Americans had at the time.
DeleteOlivia, I like your interpretation of that last line. I had a different interpretation of the line “How she stood up when they bent down to retrieve her purse. The courtesy.“ I felt Dove was referring to Rosa Parks being the one who stood up as black men bent down to pick up her purse for her when she was being arrested. This was a courteous act of these gentlemen, as if to say thank you for fighting for our rights. Did any one else interpret this line a different way?
Deletei agree with your interpretation and i also noticed that Rita Dove wrote the first and third stanze in the same structure or three lines with an end-stop of some punctuation at the end of the first line and a period at the last line of the two stanzes. the second and fourth staqnze also mirror eachother with the last sentences having a pause in the middle by using a period and the following sentence of that line is short. why do you think Rita Dove wrote it that way?
DeleteThe poem "Lady Freedom Among Us" epitomizes and exemplifies non-conformist attitudes and desires to break away from traditional norms of society. For instance, Dove implements plenty of "S" and "th" consonance sounds, as demonstrated in the lines, "having assumed the thick skin of this town its gritted exhaust its sunscorch and blear...". To the reader, this creates a tone of sententiousness and pretension, demonstrating the author's advocated attitude of breaking away from traditions to create independent mindsets. Dove further conveys her sententious tone by implementing double spaces instead of commas in natural pauses, symbolizing her attitude straying away from traditional grammatical rules to provide emphasis or create lists. There are further grammatical errors in the lack of capitalized letters, further exemplifying the attitude of independence. Dove switches to commanding voice in the fifth and eighth stanzas to emphasize that she addresses all readers' conformist mindsets. Her excessive use of " don't" conveys a message that the reader should trash his/her prevailing notions of society and break away from tradition, further expressing a tone of pompousness. Dove descrives , in stanza three, a woman "with old fashioned sandals...leaden skirts...stained cheeks and whiskers and heaped-up trinkets..." The imagery prevalent in stanza three reminds the reader of a misfit and independent in society, who can be well-praised for bringing old styles back to social popularity. Thus, Dove exhibits praise for these types of women, which is confirmed from the verse, "crown her in the sky..." Lastly, Dove implements irony in statements such as "consider her drenched gaze her shining brow...its gritted exhaust its sunscorch...she rests in her weathered plumage..." A drenched gaze filled with depression contrasts from a shining brow of effervescence, and a person typically would not wear plumage in scorching heat. As a result these pieces of irony demonstrate how the woman in question breaks away from traditional trains of thought, conveying the superiority of an independent mind. Overall, the poem creates empathy and advocation towards independent minds and breaks from traditional cultures, were main factors guiding the civil rights movement.
ReplyDeleteI feel that "Lady Freedom Among Us" shows how America wants people to conform to society. The part "all of you" shows that Americans are clumped together to receive liberty and are seen as the same. The phrase "one of the many" illustrates how an American is just one of the many people and is nothing special or extraordinary, while "she is each of us" implies that this is what all Americans are like and that they are the same. This brings a highly conformist message that states that someone who isn't like Lady Liberty is not a true American.
DeleteWhile reading the poem "The situation is intolerable" I noticed how the last lines of the first and third stanzas seem like them come straight out of Christian prayers. "in the name of the Lord..." and "O mercy on our souls,". This made me think of southern african american pastors during this time period. During the time of the civil rights movement many african american people felt safest in their churches and a lot of information about marches and demonstration were past by word of mouth in church. In the second stanza dove writes, "all around us dark and the perimeter in flames," The imagery in this line reminded me of a scene from the movie The Butler when the main character's son is a freedom rider and his bus is attacked by white supremacists. This connection is extremely interesting to me because the poem "Freedom Riders" is just across the page from it. The poem uses a prayerful way of speech that reminds me of a pastor speaking to his congregation which led me to believe that this poem in written in Martin Luther King Jr.'s point of view. In Rita Dove's poem "The situation is intolerable" Dove uses imagery and language to create a prayerful effect.
ReplyDeleteI also noticed this in the poem. I feel as if they are praying and asking God what they deserved to be treated so poorly. Although I haven't seen The Bulter, I believe that this is a good connection to the poetry. Also, to add on to your thinking, I think the last line "O yes. O mercy on our souls," could be a prayer, but also some type of religious hymn. I feel as if those words would be something I would sing during church. Overall I agree with your interpretation and I like how you made a connection to the movie!
DeleteI really liked that you interpreted this from Martin Luther King Jr's perspective. I had not thought of it this way but I totally think that it makes sense. I thought of the line about the flames as possibly a reference to Ku Klux Klan members and their oppression to go along with white supremacists. I also believe that the title "The situation is intolerable" itself emulates King Jr's preachings. I believe that this is something that he would have actually said about oppression of African Americans during that time period. Just reiterating what I said before I think that this is comepletly about preachings in black churches during the 1950s and 60s.
Delete"The Situation Is Intolerable" shows how in WWII, the U.S. went to war against racism, but that racism was still in America. The first stanza describes the soldiers who went, who are seen as civilized. The third stanza describes people who are also civilized, but not seen by society as such. Dove believes that people are treated differently in society based on factors that don't change whether they are "civilized" or not. They are the "stars" that light up the dark sky. The people referred to in the third stanza could be African-Americans, but they could also be the poor or American Indians. Dove is telling them to stand up and change society rather than sitting and taking abuse, something that happens in the civil rights movement of the 1960s. By repeating the word "intolerable", Dove emphasizes just how terrible the siituation was for people who weren't privileged in that time period.
ReplyDeleteI think your interpretation that Dove incites the oppressed in society is correct. However, from the third verse in the third stanza, the use of slang diction such as "ain't" and "piss" provides evidence that Dve may have been solely addressing African Americans in this poem, although the poem can be used in a wide variety of contexts. I believe the stars implemented in this poem are people glimmering with hope who stand up and make a difference, such as Martin Luther King, as the stars are described as "studding the inky brow of heaven." They were also described as "missionary" so I don't think the stars represented the underprivileged citizens of America. Also, the poem represents the 1960's moreso than WWII. There is plenty of "O" assonance and biblical diction such as "O mercy on our souls," illustrating the references to Christianity invoked during the Civil Rights Movement. Religious diction does not fit into WWII well. The soldier described in the first stanza may be a grievance concerning black involvement in wars with little credit or deserved treatment.
DeleteI agree with this analysis of this poem and I had very similar thoughts on it. I think that what Dove is saying is that because African Americans or people of the lower class are treated as or assumed to be uncivilized, they are not given the chance to show that they can be civilized too. I think the first stanza uses the imagery of a person getting ready for work to show that African Americans were a also a part of the working class and were also capable of being professional and supporting a job. I also found it interesting that the title was in quotes, while the other poems in this chapter are not. I think the purpose of this could be to set a sort of conversational tone to this poem, like two people talking about civil rights, and how everyone deserves equality.
DeleteBefore analyzing "Lady Freedom Among Us," I did some research and discovered that this is one of Dove's most famous poems. The poem in itself is about a statue of Thomas Crawford's Lady Freedom. When this statue was in need of repair, it was placed in a parking lot near Dove's home, and caught her eye. This statue represents freedom of women and their rights. At this point in America, all races and genders are free and equal. From reading the poem, it is clear that there's a message about how we all have the opportunity to be free, however we take it for granted. In the first few lines, "don't lower your eyes or stare straight ahead to where you think you ought to be going," it recognized how people get caught up in everyday life, and lose sight of our freedom. Then, she goes on to explain characteristic such as "with her old fashioned sandals." This is speaking of how the statue that was once on top of the capital building is seen just as an object. Although we see it this way, it is more than just a statue or a object. It should provide an example of how we are blessed to be free in America. Not only is this the idea behind the poem, but it also conveys that we have fought so hard to be free, and we should be more thankful. Also, in the lines "get a job, fly a kite," she references how we have obtained freedom, and now need to exemplify it. The last few lines of the poem could mean two things. First, it could represent that we should forgive those who are unaware of their freedoms. However, I saw it more as looking back at history, and saying that we can never forget America for long period where people weren't equal (such was civil rights and women's rights). We need to remember those time in order to prevent a repeat of history. After reading this poem, I felt a very patriotic but also annoyed tone as the reader. The feeling of love for America was present in the work, but also annoyance due to people getting too distracted to be thankful for the biggest gift a country could give us...freedom. I thought this was a excellent poem that had a strong meaning and a lesson or reminder behind it. I would love to hear if you interpreted it differently or have any thoughts to add!
ReplyDeleteBrooklyn, I like your interpretation of the poem "Lady Freedom Among Us". After researching this poem as well, I interpreted it the same way. I like the symbolism that Dove uses of a bronze statue to symbolize our freedom but more importantly, to remind Americans of our freedom. Dove did a great job describing how terrible the statue looked when she first saw. She reminds us that the look of the statue doesn't matter, just the symbol of what she represents. The poem truly is an excellent representation of reminding us that this "lady" will always be there to remind us of our freedom, no matter what condition she is in.
DeleteBK, I thought you really interpreted the poem in the way that Rita Dove intended to convey it. I had never really thought about the poem with the perspective of equality in particular. I think this is a very astute point and makes perfect sense in the context of the poem. I really would like though to elaborate on my opinions of this idea as I really have a new opinion of the poem now with this information. I think Rita Dove is attempting to convey a point about America as a whole. America and Americans are one and the same. Regardless of what happens, we bind together as a singular group, children of mother America. Separately, we are nothing more than petty jealous individuals, trying to rake our way to the top, but together we are prideful patriotic Americans willing to face any challenge. We put aside our small differences and recognize each other not by our race, or religion, or political views, but as our siblings, our fellow Americans all working to achieve our goal to spread democracy and freedom throughout our murky world.
DeleteUpon reading "Lady Freedom Among Us", I received a great amount of pride for living in the greatest country in the world. I interpreted the symbol, "Lady Freedom", as the American spirit that resonates throughout our wonderful nation. The poem begins by stating, "don't lower your eyes". I interpreted this as meaning to not to live just accepting America for who she is, but rising up, being patriotic, and embracing all that America does for you. The liberty and opportunity given here is unique to anywhere else. It then states, "don't mutter oh no not another one get a job". I interpreted this as loving your fellow Americans as brothers and sisters. We are here together as a whole, living in this country together as one. Embrace the idea that we as a people and a nation are perhaps the luckiest people to ever walk the face of the earth. To live in a place where practically anything is possible, and dreams really can come true is an enormous gift that is priceless. It then goes on to elaborate on how "Lady Freedom" becomes tarnished and dirty. I interpreted this as America being tarnished as like during WWII or 9/11 (Of course this hadn't happened yet). With these kinds of things happening, America doesn't fall apart, but it forms a closer bond with its people. I really saw this as trying to represent how resilient the American spirit and the sense of patriotism in America. America doesn't back down and cower, it comes back fighting, and fights hard. It finishes the poem by stating, "don't think you can ever forget her". I saw this as other nations not realizing the true magnificence that America really is. Overall, I saw this as a tribute to the American spirit and America as a whole. There has begun to be a lack of appreciation for America and everything that America stands for by its citizens, and this is totally uncalled for. America is by far the greatest nation in the world and the poem is really attempting to emphasize this ideal.
ReplyDeleteA bald eagle then flew down, perched itself upon an olive branch, and shed a single tear upon the Earth below. Ronald Reagan then came back to life, and God Himself came down from Heaven and enacted a flat tax upon the land; and, for that single moment, there was freedom, and nothing but freedom.
DeleteThough neither of you got it wrong about this wonderful country that we are living in, I interpreted "Lady Freedom Among Us" quite differently. I thought Dove wrote this poem about what she saw in Thomas Crawford's Lady Freedom statue. The first stanza, "don't lower your eyes or stare straight ahead to where you think you out to be going," is speaking to anyone walking by the statue, urging them to acknowledge the statue and accept what it means. Dove wrote this poem to tell people to stop ignoring the issues of equality prevalent in the mid 1800s .
DeleteThe first time reading Rita Dove’s poem, “Climbing In” I had no real understanding of the context and meaning of the poem. However, from the description of “teeth of the wolf” to “under Grandmother’s cap” it was an obvious reference to the folktale, Little Red Riding Hood. When relating this tale to the Civil Rights movement, there are many factors that evidently correlate. The poem begins with phrases as, “the dime cutting my palm” and “as I clutch the silver pole to step up, up” referencing a public bus ride. “Climbing In” could possibly be from the point of view of Rosa Parks. She describes boarding the bus using sharp and fearful word choice such as “cutting” and “clutch” creating an unsafe and nervous tone. Describing the bus driver as the wolf from Little Red Riding Hood creates an analogy between the two. Broadening the bus driver to all prejudice white people at the time, they would be described as vicious and cruel but having what seems to be a sweet but fake exterior, similar to the wolf in the tale. Dove also wrote, “Pay him to keep smiling,” which shows the fear of the bus driver like many other Americans. Overall, Dove wrote this poem using the analogy of the folktale, Little Red Riding Hood, to truly illustrate the fear African Americans had felt when riding the public buses, and emphasize how important Rosa Parks and the bus boycott were to free them of the fear. Did anyone else find this analogy between Little Red Riding Hood and the bus system during the Civil Rights movement powerful?
ReplyDeleteI agree completely Olivia! To add on to your thoughts I interpreted the wolf as the bus driver in this situation and that Grandmother was the goal of eventually achieving equality between all races. African Americans had been on this journey to equality just like Red Riding Hood was on a journey to grandmothers house. Also I thought that Rosa Parks perfectly fit the image of Red Riding Hood with the fact they they were both facing great dangers but both were very brave and couragous about it. However I was confused on the last couple lines and what Rita Dove meant. Does anybody have an explination for those couple lines?
DeleteWell, it referred to the figurative wolf swallowing the grandmother. The bus driver is paid while America is consumed by racism, just as the "bright lady tumbles... down the clinking gullet,"which is another word for your throat/esophagus. Because of this, I don't think the bus driver represents the wolf - perhaps it refers to the machine that collects the money - the "bright lady" probably describes the dime as it tumbles into the fare machine (I don't really know what it's called). Nevertheless, the overall meaning of racism and prejudice "consuming" America still stands.
DeleteOne interesting aspect of the last stanza is that it described the lady as tumbling "head over tail" instead of the usual "head over heel." The most obvious conclusion would be that, like tumbling into the clinking gullet, it's another expansion of the Red Riding Hood reference, but I'm not sure why this change was made. Any thoughts?
Belinda, the use of "head over tail" appears to be very literal--coins have a head and tail side, and the narrator describes the coin falling down the "gullet", or pay machine, in the bus she is riding. However, I would agree that the rest of the stanza refers to being eaten by the Big Bad Wolf from "Little Red Riding Hood", specifically in its use of the word "gullet" to describe the pay machine of the bus. The "bright lady" probably refers to the dime as well, but also refers to Riding Hood's grandmother, who the Wolf eats in the original fairy tale. This represents the disappearance of black people's future as they trade their rights for safety. But, I still can't figure out the middle line. Why would Dove stop using her metaphor for just one line in the middle of a stanza?
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ReplyDeleteWhen reading Rita Dove’s poem “Freedom Ride” I kept feeling a reoccurrence of fire and darkness, which made me relate this poem to all the riots that went on during the Civil Rights movement. The “germy air” would refer to all of the air that has been polluted metaphorically from all of the “dirty” shots that white people have taken on African Americans. I also thought that this could mean that the air was literally polluted due to the riots and smoke that was a result of fire due to the riots. Just a couple lines down Dove writes “the little houses with their fearful patches of yard rushing into flames” made me think of the African American communities. Using the adjective “little” in from of houses gave me the assumption that these families had not come from a great deal of money which is how it was in the African American community back then. Also to go alone with those lines it talks about the “fearful patches rushing into flames”, which I thought of as their homes being attacked by groups of people who were racist against the African Americans. The next line refers to the buses when it states “Pull the cord a stop too soon, and you’ll find yourself walking a gauntlet of stares” which meant that if any African American were to try to step in and stand up for their people they would receive endless stares from white people and would be ganged up on. Lastly the last few lines talks about the reality of the Civil Rights Movement, telling the African Americans that no matter where they go in this country it will all be the same and you will find yourself drowning (drinking) in your sorrows, but the reality is that there is no where to escape this danger.
ReplyDeleteI agree with all the points you made and also didn’t even think about the air being polluted because of “dirty shots”. The main thing I noticed in “Freedom Ride” was the whole train idea about pulling the cord too soon. I thought it literally meant pulling the cord to stop the train at a stop to early maybe because they were being racially abused or some other reason forced them to get off early. When they departed the bus, they found themselves in a white neighborhood or area of the city and had to walk to their actual destination while being stared at by people who believe they are superior. Also, at the end, Dove writes, “Pick any stop…but where you sit is where you’ll be when the fire hits.” I thought that this meant no matter what stop they got off at, they would be treated horribly, therefore meaning the fire represents racism.
DeleteWhen reading "Freedom Ride", one thing that stood out to me was the repetition of names. These are in lines 17 to 20. The first time reading through, the only name I recognized was Malcolm, which refers to Malcolm X. However after researching the other names, I found out that they were actually references to civil rights supporters who were assassinated. Dallas references John F. Kennedy and the location of his assassination, Memphis the location of the assassination of Martin Luther King Jr., and Bobby another name for Robert F. Kennedy, the brother of JFK who was a senator in New York. This sets a dark tone for the poem. Four examples of men who fought for equal rights, four examples of men assassinated for these beliefs. It seems as though the civil rights movement would have been disheartened at this point, however they continued fighting. The deaths of these people encouraged people to continue fighting, so that their deaths wouldn't be for nothing. This goes along with the diction of fire throughout the poem to show that these men were martyrs for the civil rights movement, fueling it's growth and eventual "success".
ReplyDeleteI agree with you. I noticed the same thing, that the names and places related with people that had supported civil rights and then were killed. When it says, "Daydream, and you'll wake up in the stale dark of a cinema." I saw this to mean that as much as the people hoped things would change, the reality was that nothing was any different than before, at least until the deaths of Martin Luther King Jr. JFK, Robert F Kennedy, and Malcolm X.. I also noticed that in the last stanza it relates to how civil rights would not stop because of these peoples' deaths but they would only make it a more important subject.
DeleteI interpreted "Freedom Ride" as Dove's warning to those who didn't stand out for civil right movement. Freedom Ride was a organization to support African-Americans in segregated south. Mixed racial group rode a bus to the south, but they were attacked by southern racists and most of them died. This poem also lists famous civil right movements which were succeed, but the leading role of each movement died. The whole poem is filled with fire, darkness, and death imagery, too.
ReplyDeleteHowever, there are description of luxurious American life, such as "Curacao, or a mosque adrift on a milk-fed pond." or "...afternoon singing with strangers, or rush home to the scotch you've been pouring all day-..." Especially curacao and scotch illustrates theses lines are also describing that this lifestyles are corrupt. All of these lines are followed by fire imagery which associates with destruction. This represents how comfortable life that based on ignorance of others(such as African-Americans, because at the time of Freedom Ride occurred,only rich whites could enjoy these luxurious life) could be destroyed when fire, or civil right movement happens.
The last stanza is a direct message from Dove to people who have power to enjoy comfortable life. It says "Pick any stop: you can ride into the afternoon singing with strangers... but where you sit is where you'll be when the fire hits." It essentially warns that it is there choice to stay where they are or stand up for others' life(like Freedom Ride did), but anyway fire will stuck them and as it says earlier, their houses and yards would burn.
I think Rita essentially argues that if you only cares about your own life, then you will lost that life when the revolution happens.Even though this poem doesn't urge to join civil right movement, it has very powerful voice with dark tone which makes it very serious and tragic.
After reading and color marking the poem, “The situation is intolerable”, I began to realize that the title explains it all. In the very first two lines, Rita Dove writes, “Intolerable: that civilized word. Aren’t we civilized, too?” She is basically condemning the idea that African-Americans during this time are considered intolerable and shouldn’t be considered equal to the whites. They believe the people are intolerable, but this poem contradicts that. Towards the end, Dove says “Our situation is intolerable” stating that it’s not the people that are intolerable but the position they are put into by racism during this time period. She describes this positions they are in as, “all around us dark and the perimeter in flames…” This made me think of what someone would typically describe hell as. So through the use of diction and imagery in the middle stanza, Dove backs up the idea that the way African-Americans were treated was the only thing intolerable, it certainly wasn’t the people. And also to back up the fact that the people are intolerable, they’re pictured in the first stanza as, “Shoes shined, each starched cuff unyielding, each dovegray pleated trouser leg a righteous sword advancing onto the field of battle…” Even in the poor conditions they are forced to live in, they managed to find a way to still look professional and totally, well, tolerable.
ReplyDeleteThe same quote that says, "Shoes shined, each starched cuff unyielding, each dovegray pleated trouser leg a righteous sword advancing onto the field of battle..." stood out a lot to me too and for the same reasons. To me, the description of the cuffs actually led me to think about cuffs as in shackles around their ankles, rather than pant cuffs. I think Dove used this as an unhumorous pun to emphasize how the black's prisoner status was often overlooked. Like you said, it was very venerable how they kept themselves tolerable even in their intolerable situation. I built on this idea a little more in my notes because although the blacks kept themselves civil as a whole throughout their struggle, they still managing to present themselves as a force to be reckoned with, as described by the imagery in this quote, "... a righteous sword advancing onto the field of battle."
Delete"Rosa" can be interpreted simply, but there is always more to it that just the observable context. Just the length of the poem sets it up for interpretation: The poem is the shortest one in the category, which could represent the actual event itself. The actual event with Rosa Parks's arrest was very quick, resolved with a simple complaint and detainment. The simplicity of the poem is what makes it great. each stanza has three lines, complimented with hints of enjambment and imagery such as "clean flame" and "trim name". The way she is Rosa is described is very modest: not much detail is given to her, but her actions were more present, showing that Rosa was just a normal person, who was at the right place at the right time. An oxymoron such as "Doing nothing was the doing" showed that Rosa did not have to go to extreme measures to make a point, as this minor offense sparked a nationwide social revolution. At the end, it mentions a courtesy, way of thanking everyone for witnessing the event, as they realize how important this event is, and how a simple African American woman was able to start something bigger than she had ever imagined.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree, Josiah. I was very interested in the short stanza and the smaller length of the overall poem. My interpretation was very similar to yours; the simplicity was symbolic of the event. I thought that this was to show how such a simple action could be so vital to a movement. Rosa simply just did not change her seat on the bus. In my opinion, the purpose of this poem is to inspire others to take a stand against injustices, no matter what race, age, sex, etc. Overall Josiah, I think your situation is completely spot-on!
DeleteWhen I read "Lady Freedom Among Us," I first noticed that there was no capital letters and/or punctuation used. I thought that the significance of the use of no capital letters was to represent women and that they are different than men, who would have had capital letters. In other words, I saw this as the distinction between men and women. I thought that the significance of the use of no punctuation was to represent how women are a single body that stay together and support each other. I noticed that there was a repetition of "her" and "she." I thought that this meant that one woman represents all women as a whole. The line, "don't think you can ever forget her," means that women will always be around to represent themselves and will stay a part of the fight for civil rights. I also noticed that this poem was telling women to go against the norms and traditions, by the use of "don't" in many of the stanzas.
ReplyDeleteThe capital letters also alarmed me, but in my first interpretation, I thought this poem was about a single person that tried to preach freedom. Your analysis makes more sense. There was also an anaphora of "don't" throughout the poem so it seems like this is a call to action for women to be strong and reject cultural norms. I think you carefully analyzed this because it was difficult to find anything that you left out. Do you think that some of the diction used such as big boned or unable to budge or thick skin are considered qualities that men share, but women do not in our media today? If so, how much has truly changed?
DeleteI like this interpretation because it seems very accurate. But what stumps me is the second stanza. Does it refer to her or people looking at her? Or does it refer to her seeing another man approach her? And also, how is it related to civil rights? Was this the part of the civil rights where women were also trying to get equal rights? It would seem that way if it was so, showing that women have the strength and determination to work when it says "she's not going to budge".
DeleteWhen I first read this poem, I interpreted "thick skin", "stained cheeks", and "unable to budge" as metaphorical descriptions rather than literal physical qualities, but that is a very interesting point. It is possible that Dove has here described "Lady Freedom" (the Statue of Liberty) with somewhat masculine imagery in order to suggest that the women of the civil rights movement have begun to assume roles that are typically associated with men. It is likely that Dove has used the name "Lady Freedom" instead of "Lady Liberty" because of the frequent use of the word "freedom" in the names of civil-rights protests (for example, the Freedom Rides). The assertion that "she has risen among us in blunt reproach" suggests that America's reaction to the movement contradicts its original ideals of equality and justice; the personified spirit of freedom has been ignored. As the poem gradually changes to a more positive mood, Dove further describes the statue as having "weathered plumage" -- a dignified quality that "she" has earned after many years of struggle and progress. Therefore, I do not believe that Dove has described "Lady Freedom" in a manner that implies unattractiveness; instead, the images used to describe the powerful statue represent the unrelenting spirit of the search for freedom that has persisted throughout American history. The Lady is depicted with both masculine and feminine qualities to show the universal nature of her strength.
DeleteThe first time I read "Climbing In," I had trouble identifying who the three characters could be. There is the narrator, the grandmother, and a lesser character who's only referred to when the narrator says, "Pay him to keep smiling." There are probably a lot of different people that these three characters could represent, but in my opinion, and in the context of this poem and civil rights, I think that the narrator is a white citizen, the Grandmother Rosa Parks, and the unnamed male is a bus driver. The overall "story" of the poem revolves around the narrator, or this white citizen, climbing into a bus. I noticed that there is a motif of metal; "Metallic," "... like the dime cutting my palm," "I clutch the silver pole," and "... down the clinking gullet" are all examples. This motif creates a cold, bitter tone throughout the poem that represents the hostile thoughts and nature of the narrator. That's why I think the narrator is a white person, rather than Rosa Parks herself. In addition, the frequent punctuations, short stanzas and lines, and fragmented thoughts symbolize the narrowmindedness and lack of critical thinking in the narrator which also support my reasoning as to why the narrator is prejudice white rather than Rosa Parks. Overall, I think Rita Dove wrote this poem to portray what she thinks a white person's perspective was in the 1950's when they climbed into a bus and saw a black person sitting in "their" seat. The poem reveals the coldness in their actions and their incapacity for compassion.
ReplyDeleteI was wondering though: who did you think this poem's point of view is from?
I find your interpretation very interesting considering I had seen the poem as something very different. Upon reading the poem again, I can totally see your version working very well in it's context. Personally, I saw the story as a comparison to Little Red Ridding Hood through the point of view of a figure such as Rosa Parks on the bus. Though the view towards whoever the narrator is directing towards, is very disdainful, I have a hard time believing that Rosa Parks didn't also feel an animosity towards these people who belittled her.
DeleteRita Dove’s poem “Climbing In” struck me as a great portrayal of what it probably feels like to be on the receiving end of racism in America, especially for a black woman. I say “probably” because I, as a white man in America, do not know what it feels like to experience racism the way that black Americans do. The poem uses the story of its narrator getting onto a bus as an allegory for the way black people are treated in public in America. It also alludes to the story of “The Little Red Riding Hood” in order to portray the way that racism against black people in America is often disguised as benign or “helpful” behavior by white people, much as the Big Bad Wolf in Little Red Riding Hood disguised himself as her grandmother in order to kill and eat Little Red Riding Hood. The allusion to “The Little Red Riding Hood” also demonstrates how blacks in America fear for their safety due to the possibility of hate crimes. This is clearly seen in the fourth stanza, where the narrator describes white people’s smiles as “Not quite a grin. / Pay him to keep smiling”. The first line refers to intimidation on behalf of whites, as, to the narrator, the Big Bad Wolf (representing white people) are merely baring their teeth to scare the narrator, but are disguising it as a friendly smile to other white people. The second line refers to the sacrifices black people have made to keep their safety throughout America history, typically by giving something up. Normally it was not money that black people gave up for their safety, but rather their rights, such as the right to vote, the right to an education, or even the right to freely sit on a bus. I enjoyed the way this poem used an allusion to a famous story to get its point across, and also like how it can still be applicable to America today, even though it was written about the Civil Rights era. By using a bus as a metaphor for the American public sphere, Dove is able to tell the reader what it is like, as a black woman, to experience racism in America.
ReplyDeleteI can definitely understand the premise of using a fairy tale to describe how racism was perceived at that point in time. The overall tone of trustworthiness coming from the point of view of the poem seemed appropriate, as it helps draw a comparison of how a person could be disguised as something else in order to mask the actual hostility that person would feel much like the wolf in this sense. A motif of smiling and teeth are explicitly present to encapsulate the way smiles can be perceived; whether they are genuine smiles, or used to intimidate or mock a disliked individual. A coin, used to pay for the bus fare in context, is used as a sort of bribe that forces the Wolf/Bus Driver to extend his fake smile.
DeleteI think there certainly was a lot of usage of teeth, but I think the interpretation of the teeth would depend on the reader. There's only one time in the poem where it explicitly says smiling, all the other times the poem says teeth. I actually think most of the "smiles" are fairly straightforward in that they're not friendly, but smirks or looks of detest, though some are more well hidden and almost appear as grins.
DeleteIn "QE2. Transatlantic Crossing. Third Day.," I was originally confused by the last three stanzas -- what did the "thimbleful of ache" refer to? After rereading the poem, I connected the line, "I can't erase an ache I never had" to the lines, "Even I'm thrilled, who never learned to wait on a corner, hunched..." It appears to me that Dove is trying to emphasize the fact that she had never truly experienced the lower class, as she was born into a much better lifestyle than other blacks. For Dove, she did not have the "ache," or the hardships that blacks had suffered in the years before she was even born. It was interesting to see this because, in the collection "Civil Rights Movement," this was essentially Dove saying, "I'm part of a movement without having experienced most of the hardships that caused it in the first place." This is not to say that she portrays her lack of experience in a bad light -- in fact, it seems that the wistful tone of "not having a home," represents the fact that she was trying to connect to her roots in deeper ways than simply participating in a movement. The second to last stanza, where she describes herself as "some Negro actually looking for misery," is characteristic of this feeling that she has regarding her involvement in civil rights, is representative of her mood throughout this poem.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with your analysis! I noticed that Dove used more advanced vocabulary in this poem compared to the other poems found in this collection. Dove uses word such as liquefied, percale, enmeshed and escorted to imply that she is highly educated. During the civil rights movement of the sixties and before, Dove's grandmother's era, African Americans who went to college were a rarity. I interpreted the line "some Negro actually looking for misery," as Dove trying to find a deeper connection with the people of her grandmother's and her parent's generation.
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ReplyDeleteThe poem “The Situation is Intolerable” really struck me. The first thing I noticed was the idea of defining civilized. In the fist stanza, Dove wrote, “Intolerable: that civilized word. / Aren’t we civilized, too?” With the use of repetition in these lines, Dove conveys the idea that the white people of the time think they are superior to African Americans because they feel that they are civilized. In the next line, Dove poses the question that was present throughout the whole civil rights movement: why are African Americans considered to have less worth than whites. In the following lines, Dove writes about how blacks fought for our country, and thus they deserve respect, too. In the second stanza, Dove illustrates the idea that African Americans are brutally oppressed. She wrote, “the terrain: all around us dark and the perimeter in flames,”. This symbolism illustrates that for African Americans, there is little hope, represented by the darkness, but the flames, the thing containing them, gives them some light to keep fighting. The racial prejudice they face will gain attention and awareness will lead to change. In the next four lines, Dove writes about starts and heaven, conveying this idea that there is hope. The third stanza, best represents the motif of civilization. In the opening lines of the third stanza, Dove wrote, “So what if we were born up a creek/ and knocked flat with the paddle, / if we ain’t got a pot to piss in/ and nowhere to put it if we did?” These lines refer to the previous institution of slavery in America. In that time, African Americans were not considered human. With these lines, Dove highlights that this piece of history is not even relevant to present times; it happened around a hundred years ago. To close the poem, Dove communicates that the only thing worse than the predicament that African Americans are facing is not doing anything to stop it. This is an action of civilized people. Throughout this poem, Dove shows that the axiom that blacks are inferior is outdated and they are just as civilized as any race.
ReplyDeleteI had never thought of this poem in this way before, but I now agree with you. The use of communism in your interpretation was quite interesting and it makes sense considering Stalin and Marx and Lenin are mentioned in the poem. But what I want to know is why? What was so important about incorporating communism into the poem? My guess is that Dove thinks of communism as a system that can become out of control or dangerous, just like celluloid catching on fire. I also agree with you that Dove wrote this in admiration of Kahlo and how she was so influential to women, showing that no matter what you look like you can still be confident enough in yourself to be beautiful. Men admired her for that and I think Dove was attempting to tell women to do exactly that to be happy in their own skin.
ReplyDeleteThe poem "Rosa" seemed incredibly straight forward, as in it was about the famous incident that made her famous. The first stanza talks about her sitting in the bus. I found the line "So wrong it was ready" very interesting. It is almost as if the fact that there are assigned seats that it is so wrong, that there is going to inevitably be an uprising. The second stanza uses personification on her coat to represent how she wasn't asking for anything unreasonable. The third stanza discusses how in our time, the seats don't matter and there isn't anything wrong, yet for her to not sit in the back of the bus at that time is wrong. The line saying "Clean flame of her gaze" is especially powerful, it almost makes the reader imagine a heated stare down, that accompanied the confrontation. The last stanza discusses Rosa parks taking a literal and metaphorical stand against discrimination. I saw this as very straightforward, did anyone else have a different interpretation?
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ReplyDeleteThe poem "Climbing In" is representative of the struggle of blacks during the Civil Rights movement. The poem draws parallels between a black individual getting on a bus and the children's tale Little Red Riding Hood. The poem begins with "Teeth", a description of the bus, "Metallic. Lie-gapped." Both lines refer to the predatory aura surrounding the bus, similar to the wolf in the fairy tale of Little Red Riding Hood, where the bus bears its "teeth" and is cold, like metal, unwelcoming and trying to scare the person away. The third stanza compares the bus to the dime in the individual's hand, again showing how the bus is unwarm, "Not a friendly shine like the dime cutting my palm as I clutch the silver pole to step up, up" The imagery here also helps to portray the fear this individual and any other black individual, where this individual is holding their money so tightly, clenching their fists in order to stifle whatever emotion they might possibly show, and thus causing the dime to cut into his or her palm. The word clutch also implies a more dependent tone, rather than just using the pole as a tool, it's something to hold on to for support. The repetition of the word up again shows the fear displayed by this particular person, where the length of just a few steps suddenly becomes a long, daunting climb. The third stanza also describes the fear portrayed by the woman getting on the bus, her perspiration visible, a thin layer on her cheek. The second portion describes the teeth again, this time the teeth of the wolf representing the bus driver. "Not quite a grin. Pay him to keep smiling..." Here the bus driver is doing his job, hiding any bigoted thoughts from showing verbally, but his discrimination is still evident on his face, his smile not quite a grin, not a friendly gesture, but baring his teeth, only smiling because he's on the job as a bus driver and must act professional, getting paid. The final stanza ends with the woman falling into into the wolf's stomach, swallowed by her hunters. I thought this was representative of the woman acknowledging and accepting what must happen to her, but still staying strong and trying to have an impact, described as "the bright lady"
ReplyDeleteOut of all of the Civil Rights poems, "Transatlantic Crossing. Third Day." stood out to me the most. The first, and possibly the most important thing to understand about this poem is the title. As most of us learned in Mrs. Dowty's class, Transatlantic Crossing refers to the transportation of blacks to the Americas to be thrown into the circulation of the ever so profitable slave system. My second time reading through to poem, after realizing what the title actually meant, I noticed quite a bit ocean imagery. “Couples linger by the cocktail piano, enmeshed in their own delight as others stroll past, pause to remark on the weather. Mist, calm seas. This is a journey for those who simply wish to be on the way - to lie back and be rocked for a while, dangled between the silver spoon and golden gate.” Unless the cocktail party was held at the beach, it is unusual to describe the ocean when conversing about the weather. Dove uses the transition from imagery that suggests living in an upscale apartment to imagery that suggests crossing the ocean to become a slave in order to create an individual who is living their life through the eyes of something they never experienced. This is further established in the line “I can’t erase an ache I never had.” I think the poem is about a modern african-american woman “who never learned to wait on a corner, hunched in bad weather…” who can feel the pain of what her ancestors went through. The only thing I couldn’t figure out is why she feels guilty about it. “Not even my own grandmother would pity me; instead she’d suck her teeth at the sorry sight of some Negro actually looking for misery.” Thoughts?
ReplyDeleteupon reading Claudette Calvin Goes to Work, i thought it was very interesting that the poem started off with a clip from 1955, which sets the tone for the reader. as i read the stroy i interpreted it to be from the view point of a hard working Black women who works late at night. "sometimes i wait until it's dark enough for my body to disappear." i interpreted this as Rita portraying that the women is a little scared and hesitant to go to work for fear of what might happen when she passes a white person. the women waits until it so dark that she can venture on her trip without being noticeable, which gives a feeling of fear of traveling and a fear of whiter people. "let loose a stream of brave talk: 'Hey Mama' souring quickley to 'Your Mama'" this supports the idea of Rita portraying fear and also shows how the white males would look upon Black women as some trinket that they could toy around with. it also shows how short-tempered white males are and they quickley resort to insulting which could later become violence. "What do we have to do to make God love us?" this question striked me as a helpless cry and reminds me of the novel Hour of a Star and how the girl wanted blue eyes because she thought she would then be beautiful. the line from the poem gives a feeling of helplessness on how to be welcomed. the women feels as though she has tried everything she could to please the white folk, but still they insult her. the question is a cry of helplessness to the white folk trying to make them understand that there is nothing that Black people can do to change to become more like the white folk. in the last stanza the line "And i don't curse or spit or kick and scratch like they say i did then" stood out to me because it was Rita Dove showing how the white people will do anything to belittle Black people, which includes spreading lies to keep the Black people from finding better jobs than the ones they have. this peom is very interesting to me because i believe the main purpose behind this poem is to show the nasty evil side of the white folk and to make the Black people more glorified, which is the opposite view of how the white people thought back during that time period of 1950s.
ReplyDeleteThe poem that made me think most about was "Freedom Ride". These poems are hard to interpret since there are so many ways to interpret them but I saw this as a poem of losing hope or saying that you should always expect something bad from something good. It's starts with a hopeful mood where it says "the view would veer onto/ someplace fresh". Then the mood was killed by one word, making it a hopeless mood, "But". The poem then describes the cloudy and germy air which could be due to soot from the fires that were always mentioned. I believe that mentioning fire in the first and last stanza signifies the fire being around the person. The second stanza I think states that a small mistake may cost you a lot at that time. Maybe it could be an analogy to the humility faced by African Americans for small mistakes that they do and how these mistakes remain with them in their memories since it says "playing its mistakes over and over". The last stanza seems to say that there's danger everywhere, even at the happiest of times.
ReplyDeleteI found the poem "Rosa" especially interesting because of its use of subtle imagery and line structure that evokes the quiet power of Rosa Parks' methods of nonviolent protest. The repeated enjambment of this poem, especially in the first and last stanzas, provides the reader with several natural pauses. This rhythm creates a calm, contemplative, stately mood and a sense of dignity. I also found it interesting that this poem is comprised entirely of sentence fragments, suggesting that the speaker is expressing a series of distinct observed images rather than a typical progression of thoughts or stream-of-consciousness. This structure emphasizes the powerful effect of Parks' presence, implying that her actions matter far more than spoken words. "Rosa" could be considered unusually short for a poem intended to represent an individual's entire life, but it seems that Dove intentionally made this poem simple and straightforward in order to convey Parks' own attitude. Except for a single, striking metaphor ("the clean flame of her gaze), "Rosa" contains no figurative or lyrical language. It is plainspoken and direct, showing that Parks' actions speak for themselves.
ReplyDeleteIn "Rosa," Dove essentially portrays only one of her subject's accomplishments, the famous beginning of the Montgomery bus boycott -- an event known as an important step forward in the civil rights movement. However, the title "Rosa" implies that Dove's intention was to express Parks' entire identity. Do you think that this poem represents Rosa Parks' life adequately, or is it too simple to provide a complete picture? On the other hand, was "Rosa" meant to describe only Parks' public persona and influence, not her true personality?
The poem that stood out to me the most in Rita Dove's collection of Civil Rights, was Climbing In. At first, I was confused as to why and allusion to the story of Little Red Riding Hood would relate to such a serious topic, but after a few times reading it, I understood. Poems are just another way of telling stories, stories expression emotions. The past is a story itself. Every story has something that must be overcome, commonly refereed to as 'The Shadow'. For people involved in the Civil Rights Movement, the opposing whites were their Shadow, or 'Big Bad Wolf'. The more conservative at the time saw themselves as the one's put together, but appearance doesn't hide true monsters within. Those who thought themselves supposedly superior were just, "the wolf under Grandmother's cap." A costume does not define you, it is the choices you make.
ReplyDeleteI found the poem Parsley from Politics of History to be a very creepy and eerie poem. The first few times of reading it, I was a bit over whelmed with the text, not knowing what exactly to interpret it as, and what was going on. For me, it was obvious that the problem included forced labor introduced in the writing, but in the second part, it seemed to focus on that the reasoning behind the suffering of the people, was because of another's insecurity. The character that stood out to me in this poem, was El General, a man plauged by a depression caused by the death of his mother Katalina. The way he talks in the poem is very sure of himself, as if he refuses to see the insanity. An example of this, "Who can I kill today," at the end of the statement, there is no question mark. By doing this, apparantly the general thinks he is gaining something, but the question about the poem is what that is. Personally, I think for every person he kills, the more dead he feels inside. The General is only waiting for his death to arrive, he is waiting to follow his mother, or like the poem repeats often, "a parrot imitating" he is waiting to imitate her actions. But when the poem states, "a parrot imitating spring" I found it to be the general trying to hide his madness, and kill those who know, the slaves of the house. I'm a bit shaky on this interpretation though, and still unsure on the historical background behind this, so if you had any other interpretations I'd love to hear it-
ReplyDeleteThis is a very interesting take on the poem. I agree with you, this poem is very dark and creepy in nature. It is hard to imagine scenes like the ones portrayed in this poem actually happening in real life. I saw it more as the death of his mother made him cold and distrusting of the world. He was so hurt that it completely changed who he was. This happens, to a much smaller extent, nowadays as well. Experiences that cause a lot of pain tend to change people and make them distrusting. Overall, there is definitely a lot more behind his actions and way of being than one may originally think when first reading this poem. One may originally think he is just a cruel man because that is the way he is, but after reading the last half of the poem, we can clearly see there is a lot more to the situatio than meets the eye.
Deletei agree with Bianca that the death of his mother caused the general to change his ways to be more harsh and brutal. the parrot that is repeated is more of a painful reminder of his mother due to parrots being able to repeat what they hear and in the poem, it states, "someone calls out his name in a voice so like his mother's" this causes the general to be constantly reminded of his mother, which causes him more pain that will be taken out on the Haitians.
Delete"Parsley" is a poem that juxtaposes nature with symbols of murder and death. Nature symbolizes beauty, but there are symbols of death, which becomes a rather eerie combination. First of all, there is a "parrot imitating spring", a symbol of nature. The next is the "cane" referring to sugarcane. This symbolizes nature but also the oppression of the Haitians, who harvest sugarcane. The parrot is repeated again, and then "we come up green", meaning we die, rain punches through us, and the rain lets things grow in us, making us "green". A mountain makes a brief appearance, perhaps a place the Haitians would feel safe in, if they could ever reach it. The parrot makes another appearance, followed by El General's teeth, which symbolize vicious swamp creatures waiting for the kill. "We lie down", symbolizing death, and there is "blood", symbolizing murder, and the parrot makes yet another appearance.
ReplyDeleteI agree with your interpretation that the poem presented an eerie juxtaposition between nature and and murder. While most uses of nature imagery provide positive and soothing tones in literature, this particular poem did an excellent job at using relaxing images as a method to incite fear and remove comfort from the reader. I felt that the repetition of the parrot and sugar cane signifies the oppressive nature in Haiti. While their leader possessed charismatic qualities, he turned out to be a rogue leader under a false persona. Dove implements "fake personas" such as the parrot, sugarcane, and various pieces of imagery to characterize this state of society.
DeleteI also agree with your interpretation of this poem. I found that there were simple uses of nature but that these simple ideas create a darker appearance for his life and death around him. I also noticed that the imagery used to describe the nature further was dark and very negative. Whenever something not dark was described it was immediately followed by something dark to show how life and death really are not that different and the differences can not be easily spotted.
DeleteThe poem "Parsely" refers to Dictator Trujillo's regime in the Dominican Republic, which oppressed his citizens. Dove creates an overall tone of despair to characterize Trujillo's regime. He symbolizes the citizens as parrots, who "imitate spring" or are contained "in a brass spring.". In this situation, the color green that is associated with spring provides negative nature imagery, since parrots' plumages normally contain a plethora of colors. The parrots' uniform colors represent the lassitude and weariness possessed by the citizens, as they are all restricted under the oppression of Trujillo's regime. The motif of talking with " R's" is heavily presented throughout the poem to illustrate how Trujillo desired that no Haitians bring back memories of his own mother. The "R" represent joy, which no haitians can accomplish rolling. The cane fields also represent joy, which the swamp, or Trujillo, envelops because his mother enjoyed sweets. Therefore, overall, this poem turns positive nature imagery into negative imagery. Trujillo feels grief over his mother's death, and desires to turn all joy into sorrow and despair, which the poem explains. Parsely embodies this negative imagery, as parsley has a green color but pungent taste.
ReplyDeleteI found your interpretation of the poem to be very interesting. I was a bit skeptical of the rolling of the R's and how that represented joy. Personally, I thought the statement and tone when saying how the workers could not roll there R's was a phrase out of spite, maybe emphasis towards how they a too different from each other, or a symbol of separation between the two groups.
DeleteI disagree with your interpretation of "R" that is continuously found throughout the poem. I believe the "R" is representative of the pain and suffering that the Haitians endured during 1937. The Haitians were forced to say the word "Perejil"(The Spanish word for parsley), and if one could not pronounce the "R" correctly in the word, they were immediately sentenced to death. The "R" motif in the poem is simply a personification of the peril and pain the Haitians felt during their oppression by Dictator Trujillo. The "R" motif that is present brings and eerie and dark tone to the poem overall. This was the intention of Rita Dove in her attempt to evoke emotion from the reader, and allow them to adopt the feelings of the Haitian people.
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DeleteI agree with Jared that there is a different representation of the R, but mine is slightly different from both. I think the line "...she could roll an R like a queen." is trying to show how his mother was superior to all the citizens he was murdering and how her being more important to him justifies La General’s actions. He let those who could pronounce parsley live because they were similar to his mother, but those that couldn't were killed. Also, they weren’t killed because they were strong like her and would be good for working in the sugar cane fields which were hard to maintain.
DeleteIn "Parsley," Rita Dove transforms the symbol of the parrot to reflect the coexistence of beauty and horror. Part 1 of the poem has a dark and deathly tone, created by the use of violent words such as "screaming," "punches," "haunt," and "lashed." The refrain "out of the swamp the cane appears" also contributes to the harrowing tone of Part 1. Swamps are generally associated with murkiness and gloom, while the cane represents the grueling labor of the workers. The repetition of this line epitomizes the oppression of labor that existed under the general's command. Meanwhile, there is another refrain in Part 1 that goes, "there is a parrot imitating spring." This refrain contrasts with the overall tone of darkness since parrots are bright birds and spring is the season of new life and hope. By juxtaposing the beautiful bird with the dreary mood, Dove effectively illustrates the persistence of beauty despite the presence of horror. In Part 1, the parrot seems innocent, as if it has nothing to do with the death surrounding it. This assumption changes in Part 2 of the poem where Dove writes, "The parrot, who has traveled all the way from Australia in an ivory cage, is, coy as a widow, practicing spring." The line still includes the association of the parrot with spring, however Dove associates two more concepts with the bird, one being the concept of wealth. The ivory cage clearly symbolizes wealth and luxury, suggesting that the beauty of the parrot is only worthy of the rich. Dove also associates the parrot with death by using the simile, "coy as a widow." This line suggests that the parrot is intentionally deceiving people into thinking that it is shy, when in reality, it is tied to death just as a widow is. Then finally, towards the end of the poem, Dove writes, "In the bare room the bright feathers arch in a parody of greenery, as the last pale crumbs disappear under the blackened tongue." This line depicts the parrot as a complete mockery of beauty and life. The parrot eating the crumbs of the pastries mentioned earlier in the poem references the gluttony and greed of the wealthy in the face of the poor, which in this case would be the workers in the sugar cane fields. Lastly, the blackened tongue adds to the idea of evil deceptively existing within the innocent bird. Dove changes the symbolizes of the parrot to convey how beauty, when coexisting with horror, acts as a deceitful illusion to detract from the real horror in mass murder.
ReplyDeleteThe first element I noticed while reading this poem was the repetition of the parrot. I think it is very interesting how you noticed that the parrot represented both beauty and horror. Also I like how you recognized the juxtaposition of the bird with the dreary mood. I didn't notice this until I read through your blog post. I would have to agree with you about the symbol of the parrot and I think you did a great job following it through the whole poem. I also wonder if there was a literal parrot or of it is just a symbol from this time period.
DeleteAfter reading "Parsley" I had some interesting thoughts. I was a bit confused so I did some research about the poem itself. I found that it is alluding to the regime of the dictator General Trujillo of the Dominican Republic. General Trujillo was extremely oppressive and cruel to the Haitian people. He subjected them to inhumane conditions and treated them as second class citizens. The worst of it was the massive slaughter that occurred. General Trujillo lined up many Haitian people and forced them to say the word "Perejil" (Parsley in Spanish). If they pronounced the "R", which is repetitious throughout the poem, incorrectly, they were killed on the spot. My first impression of General Trujillo after reading this was utter repulsion. I could not fathom a person who would do something so terrible to a group of people for virtually no reason. This is the same tone that is representative in, "1. The Cane Fields". There is a multitude of dark and negative imagery in this portion that reinforces this idea. Following this part, is "2. The Palace". This part of "Parsley" is significantly different from the first part. It portrays General Trujillo as more human in juxtaposition to the portrayal of Trujillo as a "Satan Spawn" as in the first part of the poem. "2. The Palace" begins by describing Trujillo's sadness over his mother's death and the love that he had for her. It also describes how he acted during her funeral. This is very heterogeneous from the first part and presents General Trujillo in a different light. There is a definite contrasting tone from the first part of the poem to the second. It then goes on to elaborate on how General Trujillo's mother died while baking candies. One would not expect the mother of an oppressive dictator to be making candies. This really exemplifies how people are not as they appear. This is really the idea that Rita Dove is attempting to convey and the commentary on society that she is illustrating. So often people are misjudged without proper knowledge of them and their background. This is major problem in society today and Dove is simply attempting to point this out through her poem while also publicizing the atrocities by General Trujillo.
ReplyDeleteIn the poem "Parsley" uses imagery of horror to make the reader connect with the torture and fear imposed by El General. The line "he laughs, his teeth shining out of the swamp" portrays the Genneral as a violent and horrid person. This type of imagery makes the reader envision him as a monster or character of a horror movie. Also, the line " we lie down screaming as the rain punches through" has a powerful impact on the reader. It creates a tone of suffering and gloom. Reading this line makes the reader instantly feel taken aback by the conditions that these people have to endure. Dove also uses lines such as "he sees his boots the first day in battle splashed with mud and urine as a soldier falls at his feet amazed- how stupid he looked!" to portray the General as a cold and heartless man. Something in his past seems to have made him cold and lacking love or compassion. This is something that is very relatable because aftter being very hurt or undergoing a traumatic experience, people tend to become distrustful of the world and put up walls to protect themselves from getting hurt again. Dove also uses diction relating to the hispanic culture throughout the poem. This gives the poem more context and makes the piece seem more accurate and realistic. Incorporating this language and detail gives the poem a more authentic feeling.
ReplyDeleteI agree with your interpretation where you stated how Dove uses horrific imagery to convey the the torture and fear inflicted onto the Haitians by the General. One line that truly shows the horrific side to General Trujillo is, "As he paces he wonders Who can I kill today." Dove uses this statement to portray the cruel and violent mind of the General. The thought is written as a conventional statement which shows the normality of it to the General. I believe this anger towards the Haitians is a displacement of the anger the General felt from his mother's death. The death of his mother is what Dove emphasizes to be the cause of Trujillo's lack of compassion and his heartlessness. Overall, the horror shown in the second part of the poem emphasizes the horror in which the General experienced himself, which Dove seems to portray as his motive for the hatred on other people.
DeleteWhen we talk about politics, we assume that they are in power because of how they rose, such as promises of reform, status, or, unfortunately, how much fear is instilled in their place of rule . "Parsley" reflects the darker side of politics, and what could go wrong if a madman was in power. Plenty of vivid imagery is used with the juxtaposition of dark colors such as a swamp or parsley green and bright colors such as the colors of a parrot to illustrate the complex behavior of a psychopath. A parrot's feathers have a contrast of light and dark spots, symbolizing how villains has good and bad experiences that can be shown with how he is perceived. It is easy to see that El General is a mass murderer, but the motives behind his killings are very unreasonable. Repetition is very noticeable, conveying the main idea of "Parsley" nicely by containing that property of fear in the actual poem. A unique thing about Parrots are that they are known for their constant repetition of heard words or phrases, thus making El General even more obsessed with this word "Perejil"(Parsley). How was a madman able to take control and instill fear into his people by mass murder? Why was his mother a cause for this catastrophe?
ReplyDeleteI don't think Rita Dove meant to literally portray Trujillo's mother as a cause for the genocide, but your comment made me think of a different way to interpret the poem. What if Dove was trying to show how easily a regime could go wrong, not because of the traditional historical reasons that we all come to agree on years after, but because of some personal issue that no one had known? It really fits with the theme of history of politics - it makes you consider and think about events in a whole new light. What if the reasons of events in history that we traditionally accept to be true are simply speculations that really don't have anything to do with the true causes, especially in the cases where one person has immense power? We tend to think of many things as definite, but what if some things happened by chance, or mistake, and we are simply inventing explanations for them?
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ReplyDeleteIn Rita Dove's poem "Parsley," I believe that the speaker is some horrified person. It's obvious that there is no "I" in the poem, and most of it is in the third person. There are several people who could possible be narrating this poem. First it could be someone who has experienced the cruel reign of General Trujillo. However, the speaker may be one who has just learned about what the Haitians had to experience in the Dominican Republic during this time. This is possible because they could be relating the information that they have just learned back while also expressing their emotions about the situation. In either case, it is clear that the speaker is not happy with the situation of hate, and how it is race related. This is why repetition such as "out of the swamp the cane appears," is used so much through the poem. The repetition is a convincing reminder that the poem is based on the real event of the oppression of the Haitians by General Trujillo. Sometimes you have to constantly reiterate a point in order for the reader to understand the harsh truth. No matter who actually was speaking in the poem, it is evident that they did not agree with the actions taken against these people. Just as the speaker feels, I also couldn't believe that someone would act so cruelly towards so many people who were practically innocent. The tone of the poem is very dark and provides the reader with a terrible feeling knowing what the Haitians had to endure.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with your first interpretation about whom the speaker is, Brooklyn. My personal opinion is that the two different sections of the poem re told from to separate perspectives, the first being from a victim of Trujillo's reign, and the second from Trujillo himself. I really liked what you said about how the repetition is used to make sure the reader understands the severity of the incident that occurred. I also agree with your thought that the speaker of the first section did not agree with the events that took place; they seem to be horrified and negatively affected by them. The speaker could even be someone who was killed. Overall, I really liked your analysis of this poem!
DeleteBrooklyn, I liked your analysis of the poem. Hayden, while reading this poem, I thought it sounded as if the slaves were retelling a story in both sections. In the first section, I believe the slaves are describing the conditions of the sugar cane field and why they were massacred. The first line of the third stanza says "we lie down screaming as rain punches through" The slaves go into vivid detail about the imagery of the sugar cane fields. When talking about El General in the second section "The Palace" they refer to him as "he" and "his" and "the general" I believe the slaves are recounting this horrible person's thoughts and actions. They say, "As he paces he wonders who can I kill today". I believe this poem is written through the eyes and feelings of the slaves.
DeleteWhen I first read the poem, "Parsley" by Rita Dove, I did not notice anything that was significant. When I was doing the color marking, I noticed the use of the parrot and the descriptions of his mother and how they were similar. This lead me to believe that El General bought the parrot because it reminded him so much of his mother but the parrot is his mother. The way that the parrot is described is similar to how his mother is described. When the poem says, "parrot imitating spring," I saw this to mean that his mother was a happy person that was nice to be around and the parrot is doing the same because it is his mother and she will still act the same way even as a bird. The repetition of this in the first part was when El General was not as depressed but was becoming more depressed once he had found his "word". Another reason that I thought that the parrot was the mother was because they both enjoyed sweets. The poem says that his mother was making candies for Day of the Dead and that he ordered sweets for the parrot. This demonstrates how they both like sweets but his mother can no longer make them because she is a bird, so she had El General order them for her. The last reason that I believe that the parrot is his mother is because it say, "she could roll an R like a queen. Even a parrot can roll an R!" This demonstrates how she is still acting the same as a bird. Now that his mother is a bird, she took her skills and enjoyments with her in her reincarnation as a bird. I believe that he loved his mother so much that he wanted a way to remember her and be around something that made him feel like she was still around because of his dislike of people.
ReplyDeleteWhen I first read Parsley, by Rita Dove, I was very confused with what was actually happening in the poem. There was clearly horrific violence occurring and “El General” was the leader of this violence. After doing some research, I found that this was poem was a reference to General Trujillo, the dictator of the Dominican Republic, ordering the death of anyone who could not pronounce the R in the word perejil, which was an act of violence toward Haitian immigrants. In Parsley, Dove interestingly breaks the poem down into two separate poems. In my opinion, she did this to try and display the tragedy from different points of view. The first section, titled “The Cane Fields” is told from the perspective of a victim of the tragedy, illustrating the oppression Haitians faced through negative diction. The first line that indicates the negative tone of this poem is the opening line of the third stanza, which says, “We lie down screaming as rain punches through”. The negative diction of the words screaming and punches create a tone of fear and violence that carry on throughout the whole poem, the second section included. After this line, I found that everything seemed to have an eerie connotation to it. Additionally, the first line of the third stanza effectively conveys the tone of the first section of the poem. Dove wrote, “in our dream, lashed by wind and streaming”. This line juxtaposes negative and positive diction by starting with “in our dreams” which carries a happy tone. This is literally and figuratively destroyed by “lashed by wind and streaming”. This line elicits a tone of lack of hope and fear through the juxtaposition. Furthermore, with this line, Dove illustrates the negativity behind the atrocities Trujillo committed. The second portion of “Parsley” is told from the perspective of Trujillo. After reading this poem, the most disturbing part in my opinion was the lack of remorse or empathy Trujillo felt. The first line of the poem is, “The word the general’s chose is parsley”. Dove creates a nonchalant tone with this line that seems so inappropriate for such a tragic incident. As the poem continues, General Trujillo continues to not feel remorse for his actions. In the second stanza, he thinks, ”Who can I kill today.” Additionally, he focuses on material aspects of life, thinking about the brass ring a parrot sits on, his ivory cage, and even blossoms. The third stanza’s purpose is to show that even the evil people of this world are human. Dove conveys this idea by writing, “his mother collapsed in the kitchen/ while baking skull shaped candies/ for the Day of the Dead, the general/ has hated sweets”. These lines show the Trujillo did have feelings and was impacted by the death of a love one, which is a natural human instinct. On the other hand, this is juxtaposed with the fourth stanza, which serves to further illustrate his cruel nature. In this stanza, he thinks about soldiers dying near him and comments on how stupid they looked. Most people in our society would be appalled by this lack of empathy and malice. The fifth stanza is where the two sections of the poem are tied together; phrases from “the Cane Fields” are repeated into “The Palace.” Dove uses this repetition to illustrate the circular affect of different points of view. Trujillo viewed many of the events very differently than the victims. In the first poem, many of these lines were infused with a tone of fear and utter horror but now they are written with Trujillo’s cruel casualness of the event. I found this intertwining of the two poems to be a brilliant use of repetition by Dove. It contrasts the two tones of the separate poems and illustrates that every incident of history will have at least two points of view: the oppressors and the oppressed. Sorry this was so long, I just thought there were so many interesting parts of the poem. Feel free to comment or add anything!
ReplyDeleteAfter doing research about the poem "Parsley", I discovered this event in history is called "The Parsley Massacre". Dove does a great job using symbolisms of innocent things like a parrot, parsley and sugar cane fields to describe blood, violence and hatred. The green parrot symbolizes the inhumanity of the general. It is the driving force of the poem that occurs over and over. The parrot also represents spring. Dove portrays the " parrot imitating spring", because beautiful plants will continue to bloom in the spring, regardless of what kind of evil is going on in the world. Parsley is also used as a symbol in this poem. It is represented as difference and power of language. Ironically, the symbolism of parsley dates back to the Hebrews. At Passover, they would eat parsley dipped in salt water to represent the tears the Israelites shed while enslaved. Dove uses the word parsley to show that people hate and will kill for no reason. The last line "killed for a single, beautiful word" explains the power of this one word that resulted in more than 20,000 slaves. The sugar cane fields are a representation of slavery and inhumane conditions. They refer to them as "haunting". It is a historical fact that sugar cane fields have a bloodstained history. Dove has done a great job using symbolism to add layers to the meaning of this poem.
ReplyDeleteIn Rita Dove’s poem “Parsley”, I found the most significant symbol throughout the poem to be parsley. Dove uses the symbolism and imagery of parsley to represent a contrast between life and death throughout the period of time where General Trujillo attempted a racial cleanse towards the Haitians. During that time, Trujillo had used the word parsley to determine whether a person would be murdered, if they proved themselves to be Haitian by not pronouncing their R’s. The word parsley being the barrier between life and death for the Haitians reflects in Dove’s poems. In the second stanza, Dove writes, “El General searches for a word,” and in the fourth stanza writes, “El General has found his word: perejil. Who says it, lives.” This part is a literal description of General Trujillo choosing the word that will determine the fate for those people. How effortlessly this is put, displays the cruelty of his rule and the morally wrong actions that occur from his decision. In the second to last stanza in the poem, Dove refers to the men that are undergoing the birth of a son to “tiny green sprigs”, another parsley reference. This imagery demonstrates the lively and happier side of the symbol which also contrasts the dark side that the General brought to it. The contradictory use of parsley also shows the lack of liveliness and happiness that the General feels which elicits him to focus on the murder and torture of the Haitians. Did anyone else find the symbolism and imagery of parsley to be significant throughout the poem?
ReplyDeleteThe way Rita Dove set up the poem is significant in many ways. One of the ways I recognized was in the part 1. The Cane Fields. The last line of each stanza had one of two verses, those two verses being, “Out of the swamp the cane appears…” and “Like a parrot imitating spring…” I think each stanza represents an individual life of the victims of El General and the Parsley Massacre. The victims were forced to say Parsley and if they couldn’t pronounce it, they were killed. So one way they die is because of parsley, connecting it with the line, “Like a parrot imitating spring. Spring known as being green and great for plant growth, and parsley was grown abundantly and it was green. The other way they could die was by being overworked in the sugar cane fields, denoted by the line “Out of the swamp the cane appears…” Even if they were able to pronounce the R in parsley, they would most likely die working because sugar cane was a very difficult crop to cultivate.
ReplyDeleteWhat struck me while reading "Parsley" was the usage of Trujillo's mother in the second part of the poem. At first, I was confused because historically, Trujillo's mother did not die in the kitchen "while baking skull-shaped candies for the Day of the Dead," and Dove herself admitted to fabricating that part of the poem. What was interesting is that Trujillo's mother is used as a tool to almost humanize Trujillo's atrocities - showing an alternative side to the dictator that ordered the massacre of, allegedly, 20.000 Haitians (total death estimates vary greatly). Historically, we know that the death of his mother was not the cause behind the genocide, but in the seventh and eighth stanzas, it is portrayed as such. The general "stomps to her [his mother] room in the palace, the one without curtains.... as he paces he wonders Who can I kill today." Before I actually researched the Parsley Genocide, it seemed to me that from this line, Trujillo was so devastated by the death of his mother that he abandoned everything else and no longer cared about what might happen. He “sees his mother’s smile” as he thinks about the genocide that is taking place, and when he hears a voice that reminded him of his mother, he began to cry. This imagery manages to evoke sympathy for a villainous character that was responsible for the death of thousands of people, but I don’t know why Dove would choose to do so. Furthermore, Dove writes that Trujillo “has hated sweets” ever since “his mother collapsed.... while baking skull-shaped candies...” Since Dove admitted to making this piece of information up, perhaps his mother’s death symbolizes something else that had happened before the genocide. Any guesses?
ReplyDeleteSomething I found interesting in "Parsley" was how Rita Dove used more than one point of view. These perspectives are split into two parts, part one "The Cane Fields", and part two "The Palace". I believe part one is from the perspective of one of the Haitian workers due to the tone of fear and the use of "we". In order to create a dark and fearful tone in this part of the poem, Dove uses somewhat violent diction such as "screaming", "gnaw", or "lashed". This conveys the feeling of the Haitians about General Trujillo. Next, in part two, I think Dove is showing the perspective of General Trujillo. One thing that I found interesting about this is that despite this part of the poem being from the perspective of an insane man, it seems much more calm than the first part. I think that by writing part two this way, Dove shows that Trujillo was a psychopath. Despite being responsible for the death of thousands of human beings, he is calm and uncaring. However the poem also has a somewhat somber tone when talking about Trujillo's mother. This shows how much he cared for her, which, strangely enough sort of humanizes Trujillo a bit more. I think Dove does this not to create sympathy for Trujillo but to give the reader a better understanding of the Parsley Massacre and what led to it. Another part of the poem I found interesting was the titles to the two parts. "The Cane Fields" creates a more humble image, whereas "The Palace" creates an image of wealth. This helps to strengthen the readers perception of Trujillo as being powerful, as it shows the inequality between him and the Haitians.
ReplyDeleteafter reading The Farming of Bones, i had a better understanding of the poem.i understood more that the general used parsley, which can be used in many great ways, to kill the people who could not roll their r's. it is very interesting that the imagery used is positive but the way it is used creates a negative impact. Rita Dove also uses a lot of elements mentioned in her poem to inflict a negative image. i find it interesting that Rita separated Parsley in to a villanelle and a free verse poem. first reading the villanelle, Rita uses the repetition of the parrot and spring to emphasize the death of the generals mother. spring was when he said his mother died and the general planted her cane on her grace, which is repeated in the villanelle repeats "out of the swamp the can appears" and "there is a parrot imitating spring". if the reader had no information about the genocide, the poem could be interpreted as a general killing people because he is hurting from the death of his mother.
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