Upon reading the two different translations, the reader is struck initially by how they seem nearly identical, but with closer analysis, the subtleties can be teased out and analyzed. Both translations use anaphora and repetition extensively. This strikes me as being almost indicative of meditation or chanting in which a rhythm is established to help soothe and focus the thoughts of the one chanting. This seems fitting since this a book that will center on the life of a young man who is the son of a holy man in the Buddhist religion. In the first passage, it is written that, "In the shade of the house, in the sunshine of the riverbank. . . , in the shade of the Sal-wood forest, in the shade of the fig tree is where Siddhartha grew up. . .". This very long sentence, if being read out loud, would require the reader to control his/her breath in order for the melodic nature to be heard; this too is similar to meditation which is mentioned later in the paragraph. It is almost as the though the author/translator wants us to see that everything, nature, ritual, family life, and spiritual life in Siddhartha's world, has a set pace and rhythm. What also strikes me in this passage is how intertwined nature imagery is with the religious/spiritual diction as if to emphasize the religion's attitude toward cycles which can be found extensively in nature. The light and dark imagery present in the beginning with the shade and sun references leads to the "glow of the clear-thinking spirit" at then end reminding the reader that the goal of Buddhists is to find enlightenment and to become one with the universe. The first passage begins with one sentence (written partially above) that is passive. After that, the structure turns active, with the sun and shade as the subjects of the sentences. The last three sentence feature Siddhartha as the subject of the sentences which also contain active voice. With the exception of the initial passive sentence, the second passage follows this pattern as well. When looking at this pattern in the first passage, I thought this sentence structure to be purposeful. In a way it reflects how children live their lives having their lives controlled by others and having thing happen TO them. Upon reaching adulthood, people are finally able to take charge of their lives, actions and choices. This sets up the reader for Siddhartha's rebellion and stubbornness toward his father which occurs later in the chapter.
Siddhartha's statement "What I have so far learned from the Samanas, I could have learned more quickly and easily in every inn in a prostitute's quarter, amongst the carriers and dice players", is a striking example of foreshadowing in Siddhartha. Ironically, in taking steps away from such worldly pleasures, Siddhartha is led directly down that path. The effect on the story is that we see the significance of worldly pleasures. In his statement, he scorns the teaching of the Samanas and worldly pleasures at the same time, but later we see that Siddhartha needed to experience such pleasures and enjoy them to find out that they were worthless. He experiences pleasure with a "prostitute", as he "pays" Kamala a poem in return for a kiss, and experiences having enough money to engage in wasteful games of dice. This shows us Siddhartha's characterization during the story. In the beginning, Siddhartha thinks worldly pleasures are a waste of time. In the middle, Siddhartha engages in them fully, and in the end, he again thinks they are a waste of time. Another example is when Siddhartha says he has "no desire to walk on water", which is ironic because he ends up as a ferryman. He steps away from teachings only to end up learning from the river. This example of foreshadowing shows us how Siddhartha changes from trying to find himself to learning from the river.
In addition to the irony, I also found that gambling symbolized Siddhartha's successes and failures in achieving enlightenment. When a person gambles, there's always a risk that he/she will win money or lose money, yet that person always runs the risk. Siddhartha gambled not only for money, but also for his own spiritual growth. His actions would either bring him further in his quest, or detract him from it. When Siddhartha leaves his father and never comes back, he runs the risk of losing all the wisdom and teachings that he gained by being the son of a Brahmin. This is similar to placing initial bets. Siddhartha joined the Samanas, and while losing some dignity and leaving them due to their almost dehumanizing lifestyles, he gained the power of spellbinding, which signifies a growth in his spirituality and enlightenment. This is similar to receiving a two-pair in terms of cards, and receiving a slight profit after betting a large amount. Siddhartha also rejects following Gautama, stating, "...this unity and consistency of all things is nevertheless interrupted in one place:...your Teaching about the overcoming of the world, about deliverance" (P. 31). If this were gambling, this would be similar to Siddhartha winning a large amount of money, but choosing not to quit and continuing to play. Others, such as Govinda, would quit after receiving such a large portion of money - Gautama's teachings, but Siddhartha chose to continue in pursuit of better treasures. Siddhartha pursuing a material life with Kamala is analagous to betting all but one coin, and losing it all, since Siddhartha took many steps backwards in his quest for achieving enlightenment by choosing that lifestyle. His blindness in not recognizing "how closely lust is related to death" (P. 72) until his dream about Kamala strangling him is similar to getting drunk after drinking too much alcohol during a gambling session, making him unaware of what little funds he had left. After Siddhartha feels guilt and discontentment with the life he chose, he decides to run away from Kamala and his future child, realizing that he only has "one coin left". His situation of despair is demonstrated by his statement, "If only lightning could come and kill him! If only a tiger could come and devour him!...Was this cycle not exhausted and completed for him?" (P. 77). At this point, Siddhartha gives up everything to find the ferryman, who allowed him to see that having various experiences and going through all sorts of changes, like the river, allowed him to experience true enlightenment through wisdom. If Siddhartha were gambling money in this scenario, this would be similar to betting all-in for the last coin, receiving the best hand, and winning millions of coins; far more than he would have gotten if he quit tasting new experiences by following Gautama. Govinda, on the other hand, quit after he followed Gautama. His discontent is expressed by the statement, "For though Govinda had lived all his life according to the Rule and was also revered by the young monks for his age and his modesty, the disquiet and seeking were not snuffed in his heart" (P. 121). If Siddhartha quit the "gambling session", he would have become like Govinda, failing to receive the best amount of enlightenment, or "money", possible. Hesse implements gambling as a symbol because, as gambling involves a lot of risk yet may reap a lot of reward, finding enlightenment required stepping outside one's boundaries and experiencing various lifestyles that may be harmful, yet bring wisdom to the individual. He greatly emphasizes the risks that an individual needs to take to achieve enlightenment by comparing them to the risks of gambling.
I understand what you are saying about the irony but do you really believe it was ironic or maybe was it just part of the Karma we have learned about in some of the IOP's. I feel as if it was not as ironic but on purpose by Hesse this was a symbol and how the author worked that little piece in, what do you think? Just food for thought.
William, Thanks for being our first poster! Good job! You have lots of good insights--can you also put page numbers in the future? I like the point about his lack of desire to walk on water and the irony of that statement. Ms. Ballard
On page 28 in the book, the author describes the first time Siddhartha's first sight of the Illustrious Buddha. He writes, "...and it seemed to him that in every joint of his hand there was knowledge; they spoke, breathed, radiated truth". I thought this was such a great example of personification. It does make me wonder, though, how Siddhartha could deduce all of this from just one glance, without having even talked to the Buddha yet. What struck Siddhartha as so striking straight from the beginning? I also find this quote interesting because Siddhartha describes him as radiating knowledge yet if this was true why did Siddhartha choose not to follow him? Siddhartha claims to be seeking knowledge and more meaning to the world, yet when he comes across this man who seemed to have knowledge in every bone of his body he once again decides these teachings are not enough for him. It makes me wonder if Siddhartha himself even truly knows what he is searching for.
I also thought this passage was interesting. At first sight Siddhartha claims to have never loved anyone more. "Never had Siddhartha venerated a human being so deeply, never had he loved a human being so deeply as this one"(27). Not only is it odd to have such a strong feeling for someone at first sight, it completely contradicts Siddhartha's dialogue with the Buddha later on in the chapter. I agree with you on the idea that these contradictions reflect internal conflict. It seems as though Siddhartha is having trouble finding the right teacher because he thinks he knows better.
Siddhartha does feel like he knows what he is looking for. He communicates that enlightenment is not something he feels can be taught. In the end, however, he is wrong, because he has learned enlightenment from the river, and not from himself. Siddhartha feels as if the one most important secret is something that cannot be taught. He clearly knows what he is looking for. What he does not know is how to find it. He goes on to waste a long period of his life doing the things he used to hate and not even looking for enlightenment. Suddenly, his quest for knowledge troubles him and he finds himself learning from a river. Siddhartha could not learn from a human teacher. I feel this communicates that Siddhartha is a loner who can only find meaning in life by listening to a river. He ends up learning from an emotionless mass of water what he refused to learn from Gotama. He has forsaken his family and his village, yet he has somehow found peace. Can he be considered successful?
Throughout the chapter, Samsara, the motif of the songbird is present to illustrate the wants and needs of Siddhartha. On page 64, Siddhartha undergoes a vivid dream. In this dream, Siddhartha encounters Kamala's songbird, dead in its cage. Following this, Siddhartha picks up the bird and hurls it out the window to the street below. This dream is symbolic of the life that Siddhartha has. Much like the songbird, Siddhartha is deprived of the life that he wishes to have. Again like the songbird who solely wishes for freedom from his wretched cage, Siddhartha strongly desires freedom from the "cages" of suffering and tragedy that surround him throughout his life. This dream presaged the notion that if Siddhartha continued on the path of sin that he led, he too would end up like the bird. Siddhartha's desire to achieve enlightenment would be lost forever, much like the bird, incapable of rebirth. By abandoning his life of riches and glory, Siddhartha believed that he could once again claim the life that he had, and continue on his quest to achieve Nirvana. Additionally, on page 67, Kamala takes her songbird out of its cage and lets it fly away. This event signifies the awakening that Siddhartha had undergone. The bird was free and was given a new life similar to Siddhartha. Siddhartha transformed from a greedy sinner, to new man of life and serenity. Siddhartha was much like a block of clay, waiting to be molded by the future events that were to transpire. This event is also foreshadowing to the new life that Siddhartha is to experience. The songbird's only wish was the flee from his confining prison, and find freedom, in which he achieved. Similarly, Siddhartha's only goal was to find enlightenment. Like the songbird, Siddhartha is to achieve his paramount goal as well in the future.The motif of the songbird is used throughout the chapter, as a symbol of the wants and needs of Siddhartha, as well as foreshadowing the fate of Siddhartha in the future.
I agree that the motif of the songbird represents the wants and needs of Siddhartha. I also think that it symbolizes how if Siddhartha's spirit is caged up for too long, it will die. As the reader, I connected with page 67, when Kamala released the songbird. It reminded me of how people try to dispose of items that remind them of past lovers. However, I was surprised when Kamala made no effort to chase Siddhartha. This was especially surprising because she knew that she was pregnant shortly after this event.
I agree with Brooke. I had not thought of the idea of people disposing of items of past lovers. I think that's a very interesting way to connect to the symbol. I also wonder if at the time when Siddhartha left if Kamala was aware that she was pregnant. It almost seems as if in the end that was her goal, to have his child. Maybe having the child to her was a reminder of Siddhartha as if he were still with her. This could be why she let him go. She knew he would not be happy until he reached his ultimate goal of enlightenment. It is almost like the saying "if you truly love something, set it free."
I loved the motif throughout the whole chapter and felt like it made it easier to understand Siddhartha and his emotions. However I found it interesting that he threw away the bird so quickly and only felt guilt after he had thrown the bird into the streets. This was very similar to how quickly he decided he did not want to be one of Gautama's followers but then felt very lost after he did so. He didnt necessarily feel guilty about his decision but as said on page 67, "... and his heart ached as if, with this dead bird, he had thrown away all value and all goodness.", and with that it I feel like there was a major similarity between the ache in his heart and the emptiness in his soul when he is with Kamala and surrounded by all the things that he initially wanted to flee from. Therefore once Siddhartha woke up from his dream, he intensely felt the need to find englightenment and fill the emptiness of his soul, so he fled from Kamala to do so.
i have also noticed that the dream was a warning about his depression. telling him that he was stuck and that he didnt care about his life, shown with him throwing the dead bird in his dream. his depression drew stronger with his gambling and drinking and his dream was warning him that if he were to continue living that way, then he would die without doing anything wonderful with his life. i think it was interesting that every dream he has foreshadows the upcoming chapters
Throughout the book, Siddhartha encounters and has very different reactions to two enlightened people - Gautama and Vasudeva. On pg. 28, Hesse writes, "Siddhartha saw him, and he instantly recognized him as if a god had pointed him out." For Vasudeva, Siddhartha's first impression was different. Siddhartha notes, "'All the people I meet on my path are like Govinda... All are subservient, all want to be friends, like to obey, think little. People are like children." (pg. 46-47) Arguably, he truly found enlightenment with Vasudeva, when on pg. 95 Vasadeva "leaned over to Siddhartha and spoke the sacred om into his ear." Also, it seems like Siddhartha "learned" more from the ferryman than anyone else when they conversed in The Ferryman, which is ironic because Siddhartha himself stated that teaching and scriptures weren't what he needed. I'm curious as to how Siddhartha instantly recognized the spiritual transcendence in Gautama, but thought of Vasudeva like Govinda or any other person. How do the two differ from each other, and how are they the same? Is one "more enlightened" than the other, or was it a personal change in Siddhartha that prevented him from seeing the enlightenment in Vasudeva?
I agree that Siddhartha seems to contradict himself in the idea that he can not learn from teachers, but I found that comparing Vasudeva to Govinda was very fitting. Near the end of the book, when Govinda meets Siddhartha for the last time, Siddhartha explains to him that everyone has taught him something, even Govinda himself. For Siddhartha, he sees that for a person to teach him, it is not required for them to be enlightened. Both Govinda and Kamala were more pupils of Siddhartha than he was of them. Personally, I think that Siddhartha and Vasudeva both taught each other, and that neither was fully enlightened until the end. This is how he did not recognize it before, because it was not fully there.
I also agree that Siddhartha seems to contradict himself when he says he cannot learn from teachers because he seems to seek for advise and tries to learn from the people he meets. I think that he wants to learn from all the different perspectives of his companions but does not feel comfortable calling them teachers. I think that Govinda started to come to the conclusion that he does not need to be taught by only one person, that there are different techniques to reach enlightenment. This is similar to Vasudeva because he did not want to learn from people, he wanted to learn from the river. Vasudeva reached enlightenment from the river, so maybe Govinda will learn from it, just like he and Siddhartha.
On page 39 of Siddhartha, Hesse writes, "From that moment, when the world melted away all around him, when he was alone like a star in the sky, from that moment of coldness and despondence, Siddhartha surfaced, more ego than before, more concentrated." From this quote, it shows that during the point when Govinda leaves, something inside Siddhartha seems to click, he realizes from his previous life that he has grown greatly attached to Govinda. Govinda was almost part of Siddhartha. With Govinda, Siddhartha was a "star" to be looked upon, he shined for a reason. Knowing that Govinda has left to worship someone else, Siddhartha has lost a part of himself that helped give his actions meaning. Now, Siddhartha shines only for himself, which in turn gives him more ego. When he says he is alone, he also means on a deeper level that Siddhartha no longer knows his own purpose.
I thought it was interesting how Siddhartha could leave his longtime childhood friend so easily. If Govinda was truly such a huge part of Siddhartha's life, how could he so easily let him walk away? It almost feels as if Govinda was more attached to Siddhartha than SIddhartha was to Govinda. It makes the reader wonder if SIddhartha just sees Govinda as more of a follower and almost a sort of servant rather than someone close to his heart.
Siddhartha does see Govinda more as a follower than as a friend. Siddhartha's will always overrides Govinda's. This happens when Siddhartha decides to leave his home and when he leaves the Samanas. After Siddhartha leaves Govinda, he doesn't give him even a second thought until the very end, much like he did to his father. Siddhartha leaves first his village and eventually his friend who comes with him. When he says he is alone, I feel he deserves it. Siddhartha didn't have much respect for people in general. The end of the book does not make clear whether this changes or not; it only makes clear that Siddhartha has made himself happy. At the end, however, Govinda gets something from Siddhartha. Did he get enlightenment, or did he get something less? What does Govinda feel towards Siddhartha at this moment? What does Siddhartha feel towards Govinda?
I don't think Govinda achieves enlightenment with Siddhartha. In that moment, Govinda simply feels love for Siddhartha. The book says as much on the last page, as Hesse writes, "A feeling of most profound love and most humble veneration burned like a fire in [Govinda's] heart" (page 118). Govinda's love for Siddhartha resembles the love a child has for his or her parent in how pure it is, and how Govinda also looks up greatly to Siddhartha. To continue the metaphor, Siddhartha is Govinda's emotionally unavailable dad who never gives Govinda the validation he craves. At the end of the book, Siddhartha seems to reciprocate the love Govinda has for him, if only partially. Govinda finally feels the full extent of his love for Siddhartha when Siddhartha lets Govinda witness his enlightenment. However, I'm not sure Siddhartha lets him share that moment because he loves Govinda. Does he actually love Govinda? Or does he just do it to make Govinda happy?
I also agree. Siddartha before this part in the book had always relied on Govinda not matter if he had realized it or no. Govinda had become apart of him and know as he left Siddartha was forced to rely on himself. I think this was a great introduction for Siddarthas charcter to become more independent.
The final pages of this book present an interesting dilemma. Siddhartha has learned that enlightenment cannot come from teachers, and he grows impatient with the Samanas' and Gotama's unsuccessful method of imparting enlightenment through verbal teaching. In the last chapter, Govinda sees Siddhartha achieve enlightenment and in that moment acknowledges that Siddhartha's way (complete with detours) was more successful than his way. However, when Gotama kisses Siddhartha's forehead, he "saw other faces, many faces, a long series, a continuous stream of faces", much like Siddhartha's own experience with enlightenment, so Govinda has just experienced enlightenment from a teacher. Siddhartha seems not only to have discovered enlightenment, he has also just taught it to someone, something he claims cannot be done. This doesn't make any sense. If Gotama achieved this "enlightenment", wouldn't he be able to give it to everyone else by having them kiss him on the forehead?
I think this is a very unique view point. However, I do not believe that Siddhartha actually "taught" enlightenment to Govinda. First of all, those with smiles in the book are those who have achieved true enlightenment. Only Siddhartha and Vasudeva were recorded to smile at certain points in the book. However, concerning Govinda, Hesse stated, "Tears ran over his old face, but he was unaware of them; the feeling of deepest love, of humblest veneration burned in his heart like a fire...smile reminded him of everything that he had ever loved in his life..." (P. 132). This imagery of tears draws a feeling of desperation from Govinda, in which he yearns to learn the ways of Siddhartha to reach his goals. If Govinda feels "veneration", then he is reverent towards Siddhartha, and treats Siddhartha like a role model. As a result, Govinda still hasn't realized that he has to follow his own path and learn from all the aspects of life rather than rely on teachers to guide him in order to achieve true enlightenment. In fact, earlier Siddhartha taught Govinda the difference between finding and seeking. Govinda still "seeks" for the feeling of enlightenment from Siddhartha, which will result in emptiness, while Siddhartha has already "found" enlightenment, and therefore smiles. My opinion is that Govinda remained static all throughout the book, including at the end, and still possesses the same attitude of looking to role models rather than pursuing new experiences to gain wisdom. He hasn't gained true enlightenment yet.
"You are the making of a pilgrimage," said Govinda,"but few make a pilgrimage in such clothes, in such shoes, and with such hair. I, have been wandering for many years, have never seen such a pilgrim." (Page 93 in the blue book)
This quote stood out to me because I was questioning Siddhartha's choices, just as Govinda was. Siddhartha's main aspiration is to leave material items behind, in order to seek his total self, or enlightenment. As the reader, I saw Kamala change Siddhartha into the man that he used to be. Kamala spoke of Siddhartha saying, "No, he is not yet good enough, he must have clothes, fine clothes, and shoes, fine shoes, and plenty of money in his purse and presents for Kamala," (Page 54.) The effect of Kamala feeling this way was Siddhartha falling back into his cycle of being materialistic. He feels an immense amount of love and lust of Kamala, which is evident through his materialism. Herman Hesse also used parallel structure in both of these quotes. The parallel structure put emphasis on the importance of these substantial items. The overall representation of this passage is that one will do anything, including altering themselves in order to appeal to another person. I was surprised that despite Siddhartha's dedication, he would give up part of his mission to chase Kamala. At the beginning of the story, I believed that Siddhartha was a much more determined character, and was disappointed to see him fall back into this cycle.
To add on to that, when I was reading through the passage it caught my attention that Govinda had seemed so content with his decision to stay with Gautama which I thought was great. From the very beginning the author used the characterization of Govinda to make him seem like he was a follower of Siddhartha. Now to see that Govinda is in such a good place compared to Siddhartha it interesting to watch the roles reverse. The first chapters in the book made Govinda seem dependent on Siddhartha and yearned on his attention. Now as Siddhartha meets with him for the first time in years he realizes that Govinda is no longer interested in Siddharthas attention and has become a successful man in being independent. I secretly was rooting for him from the beginning just because he was the underdog in the story and who doesnt love seeing underdog be successful?
On page 118 in my book in the chapter "The Son" Hesse writes, "...Siddhartha began to realize that no happiness that no happiness and peace would come to him with his son, only sorrow and trouble. But he loved him and preferred the sorrow and trouble of his love rather than happiness and pleasure without the boy". I thought that ths was a really key point in the story. Up to this point, Siddhartha only lived for himself, and his main focus was on his wants and his life. Here, however, we see a shift in his views. For the first time so far in the book, he seems to be putting someone else before himself. He would rather be miserable and have his son than be happy and carefree without him. I think it is really powerful how in the book,as well as many instances in real life, having a child tends to change a whole person's perspective on life. I think this experience for Siddhartha is critical in minimizing his ego. For the first time Siddhartha feels real sorrow. He feels true pain in seeing his son refuse to let Siddhartha nto his life, and I think that is a valuable experience for Siddhartha. He needed to be exposed to that in order to develop a higher appreciation for the world.
To go along with what William said earlier, Siddhartha finds himself gambling again in order for fulfill the pleasure he needs. Hesse writes, "For it was only these sensations that he still felt something like happiness, something like euphoria, something like a heightened life in the midst of his glutted, tepid, insipid existence". I interpreted this as a way that Siddhartha can deal with his depression in the fact that he has yet to find enlightenment. I also connected this in the present day with a gambler who has not gambled in a while and feels very depressed due to his withdrawl from it. In order for him to feel happiness he has to gamble just like Siddhartha has to gamble to feel a sensation of euphoria. In a way this is sad to think that he can only be happy with the feeling of competition and money, but is closely related to our society today. I did find it ironic that Siddhartha wants to win at all costs and have money for himself to be happy when in the beginning of the story all he wanted to do was be selfless. As he keeps on going down his journey I feel as though he is drifting farther and farther away from enlightenment. However at the same time him drifting further and further away may make him realize his mistake. One moment of recognition from Siddhartha about his current actions most likely will help him to find englightenment. If anybody had a different interpretation of this feel free to share because I feel as though there might be a different meaning to this as well.
In addition to what Cassie wrote, I found another meaning in Siddhartha’s excessive gambling. In my opinion, Siddhartha’s bad gambling habit is symbolic of his life among the child people. When people gamble, they are not in control of the outcome, are not weighing the risks of their actions, and are often addicted to this activity. Similarly, Siddhartha has fallen off of his path of finding enlightenment. His life is now focused on leisure and material possessions. He is no longer generous and willing to help others. Symbolically, he is basically throwing the dice with his life; he is no longer focused on his life goal, but instead is caught up in a world of greed and lust. Hesse wrote about Siddhartha’s gambling, “…Siddhartha began to play dice for money and jewels with increasing fervor, a game which he had previously smilingly and indulgently taken part as a custom of the ordinary people. He was a formidable player; few dared play with him for his stakes were so high and reckless” (Hesse 79). This illustrates how Siddhartha no longer has a purpose in his actions as he mindlessly and recklessly throws away his money often. Furthermore, this quote demonstrates how Siddhartha has lost his mental superiority to others, which was once what drove him to become enlightened. He participates in the activities of the people who he once referred to as child people. Additionally, like many frequent gamblers, Siddhartha displayed many tendencies of addiction, except his addiction is to his lifestyle. This is demonstrated through his preoccupation with Kamala although he claims not to love her. Also, this is illustrated by the fact that Siddhartha has become everything he did not want to be when he started his journey in becoming a Samana, demonstrating the addictive quality of no longer caring about your life. I just found this passage very interesting in how it coincides to the state of Siddhartha’s life in the chapter Samsara.
On page 64 of Siddhartha, Hesse writes, "Most people, Kamala, are like a falling leaf, that wafts and drifts through the air, and twists and tumbles to the ground. Others, however, few, are like stars: they have a fixed course, no wind reaches them, they have their law and their course inside them." This passage was outstanding to me, as it added further insight to Siddhartha's beliefs on the path to enlightenment. Until this point in the novel, I was still slightly confused on what Siddhartha really thought about enlightenment. The two similes Hesse made in this passage significantly helped in clarifying Siddhartha's viewpoints. First, Siddhartha compares unenlightened people, or "the child people" as he commonly refers to them as, to falling leaves. Leaves, being flimsy and essentially lifeless, are subject to all the forces of the world, much like the child people are. The child people, like Kamaswami for example, are easily swayed by trivial concepts, especially material life , and this, in Siddhartha's opinion, is why they will never truly reach enlightenment because enlightenment is achieved through self-directed action. In stark contrast, Siddhartha compares the enlightened people, to stars on a fixed course. Not only does this show how these types of people are bound to nothing but their own will, it also shows how much more superior Siddhartha thinks the enlightened are. The child people are comparable to dead foliage while the enlightened are comparable to bright, burning entities that create their own energy from within. This could also explain why Siddhartha treats others with such a condescending tone so often, as he rejects their choice to follow a path created by someone else. Further along in the same passage, Siddhartha takes this thought and expands on it by rejecting Gautama's Teaching specifically: "A thousand disciples hear his Teaching every day, follow his rules, every hour, but all of them are falling leaves, they have no law and no teaching within them." Hesse continues the falling leaves simile in a statement that essentially tags Gautama as a hypocrite. In Siddhartha's point of view, Gautama promotes a Teaching that does exactly the opposite of what it attempts to accomplish: it subjects its followers to a predetermined path, rather than teaching them to find their own path to enlightenment. Overall, I thought that this was a very important passage in novel as it clarifies two grey areas in the novel. Hesse uses similes to explain Siddhartha's view on enlightenment and why he rejects Gautama's Teaching. The reader may not necessarily agree with Siddhartha's opinions but at least they may understand where he is coming from.
"The child people, like Kamaswami for example, are easily swayed by trivial concepts, especially material life , and this, in Siddhartha's opinion, is why they will never truly reach enlightenment because enlightenment is achieved through self-directed action." I found this part of your analysis especially interesting. Throughout the book, Siddhartha himself engages in activities he deemed as trivial, meaningless, or otherwise lowly. When he first set out to be a samana, he cast away all worldly pleasures, finding bitterness and contempt for the world. Yet, later in the book, Siddhartha goes through different stages, where he himself succumbs to his own desires, first to Kamala, which is actually on the next page, "Siddhartha was silent, and they played the game of love, one of the thirty of forty different games that Kamala knew." In the next chapter, Samsara, the beginning sentence states, "For a long time Siddhartha had lived the life of the world and the pleasures without actually belonging to it". Siddhartha lives among the child people, has contempt for them, but finally in this chapter he falls, falls to the temptation of Samsara, growing accustomed to the gluttony of his lavished lifestyle and the greed from gambling. Siddhartha seems almost inhuman in the way he acts, in his thirst for enlightenment and in his unbreaking will and determination to reach it, yet at the same time is characterized as all too human by his own hypocrisy and nature as he too, becomes a child-person. I just felt that the constant back and forth and the juxtaposition between Siddhartha's discipline and his humanity felt awkward and unrealistic at times, but was also helpful for better understanding Siddhartha, because of the unrelatability of not only his life, but his personality and thought process.
The way that Siddhartha perceives the mindset of the child people is very fascinating. There's a passage in the chapter Samsara that describes what Siddhartha had been worrying about: becoming assimilated with the child people. "He envied them for the one thing that he lacked and that they had: the importance they were able to place on their lives, the passionateness of their joys and fears, the queasy but sweet happiness of being eternally in love."(pg. 69) It was strange how it mentions that Siddhartha lacks the self-importance the child people had. You would think that with the addition of Kamala and her lessons of love, and the fact that many others respect and admire him, he would be more entitled to having that passionate desire of love. On the same page, the passage continues, but gives the reader another perspective: "These men were constantly in love with themselves, with women, with their children, with honor or money, with plans or hopes." Interesting, so the kind of love Siddhartha lacked was the love of possessions, of dreams and ambitions. Siddhartha did not find that connection to other child people through the love of worldly possessions. Why was was he envious to this? It could be because he had become blinded by the child people's way of life. The passage finishes up with a statement that summarizes the way Siddhartha feels about the child people. "What the learned from them [child people] were the unpleasant things, the things that he himself despised." Why is it that Siddhartha envies the child people's love of worldly possessions, but learns that he despises these otherwise unpleasant values?
I also found this juxtaposition of Siddhartha's simultaneous envy and disgust towards the child people fascinating. I think Hesse uses is contrast in emotions to show how there is beauty and sin in everything. Before Siddhartha becomes involved with the child people, he sees them only with a condescending eye. This shows in the way he speaks about them and to them. On page 62, Siddhartha says, "You did not teach me how to think, dear Kamaswami. You would do better to learn it from me." It isn't until later when Siddhartha sees what is good about the child people. Siddhartha's realization shows towards the end of Among the Child People on page 65, when he is lying with Kamala. He remarks, "Perhaps people like us cannot love. The child people can; that is their secret." To answer your question, I think Siddhartha envies the child people not because they are able to love their worldly possessions, but because they are able to live and love happily without prior enlightenment. Throughout the novel, Siddhartha searches for enlightenment because he believes it will allow him to finally reach inner peace. He is jealous of the child people because they live in peace without enlightenment. During his time as a rich man, Siddhartha learned from the child people. He learned "how to do business, wield power over people, take pleasure with a woman," (68). The list goes on. He learned to live the exact same life as the child people, yet he cannot indulge in happiness and love in the ignorant way that they do because he is too fixated on achieving enlightenment before happiness. This is how Siddhartha is able to envy the child people's way of life while despising it at the same time.
i think siddhartha envies how the child people can love and feel love. siddhartha had learned to distance himself from possessions and never fully learned how to love. he was given praise, but it doesnt say if his father and mother ever showed loving affection toward siddhartha. being deprived of this feeling of love, siddhartha never loved anything. even when he was with kamala, she noticed that he did not truly love her. being around the child people, siddhartha noticed this love. he tried to be like the child people and forced himself to try and love possessions, but these possessions did not return the favor, which did not satisfy him. i think siddhartha envied how the child people could love one another and that he too wants to be loved and love someone else.
I definitely agree with what Jenny said. Siddhartha’s fixation on enlightenment holds him back from loving anyone. He pursues Kamala and a life of worldly possessions not because he simply wants to have sex and get drunk, but because he senses a lack of emotional attachment in life. His rejection of the woman by the stream before he meets Kamala (which I have talked about below) shows his desire for more than just sex. Kamala definitely loves Siddhartha, as she after they make love for the last time, “You are certainly the best lover I have ever encountered” (58). However, as Jenny said, Siddhartha states that he is incapable of love and views it as a secret of the “child people”. Siddhartha certainly feels an emotional connection between Kamala and himself, otherwise he would not have had a relationship with her. However, Siddhartha then leaves Kamala because he realizes living with her will not bring him to the enlightenment he seeks, and this seems to be what keeps him from understanding the child people’s secret of love. Had he been able to be content with his comfortable life with Kamala, he most likely would have been able to love her, but his inability to be content with his life with Kamala makes him think that his emotional connection with her is bad or somehow tainted because it isn’t bringing him closer to enlightenment. This fixation on enlightenment is also my major frustration with the book and the character of Siddhartha, but I digress. Siddhartha is unable to love anyone because the emotion of love doesn’t help him achieve enlightenment, which is his only goal throughout his life. This leads me to wonder, did Siddhartha ever love anyone else in the book? Govinda seems to be the only other possibility, but I am not convinced he loves anyone in the novel.
Throughout the novel, Hesse implements the motif of different types of trees to illustrate Siddhartha's growth in wisdom and enlightenment. At the beginning of "The Son of the Brahmin", the author notes, "in the shade of the fig tree is where Siddhartha grew up" (P. 1). As a fig contains a hollow syconium, Siddhartha is also hollow because his growth in enlightenment hasn't matured; he still yearns for new experiences that will achieve him true enlightenment. In "Gautama", the author states, "what he ate could not even have satisfied a bird's appetite, and they saw him retiring into the shade of the mango-trees" (P. 28). Mango trees, in this novel, represent stationary pleasure. While the fruit of a mango is sweet and savory, it cannot truly quench the soul when it is eaten regularly without other fruits to combine with it, similar Gautama's fixed mindset of meditation, without other experiences under his belt. This relates to Siddhartha in "Samsara" when he "...rose, bid his farewell to the mango-tree, his farewell to the pleasure-garden" (P. 75). Here, he realizes that his material life of gambling and worldly pleasures aren't enough to give him contentment, so his farewell to the mango tree represents his abandonment of stationary pleasure to search for new experiences to give him enlightenment. Before meeting with Kamala, "He saw the sun rising over the mountains with their forests and setting over the distant beach with its palm-trees" (P. 43). Palm trees resemble beaches and luxurious experiences in the tropics. They connotate a lust for worldly pleasures, thus foreshadowing Siddhartha's decision to stay with Kamala and live a worldy life. In "Samsara", before he bids farewell to the mango tree, the author stated, "Slowly, like humidity entering the dying stem of a tree, filling it slowly and making it rot, the world and sloth had entered Siddhartha's soul..." (P. 68). The death of the tree symbolizes Siddhartha's spiritual death, in which he lived a materialistic life and allowed his spiritual growth to come to a halt. However, when Siddhartha slept by the river, "...under a coconut-tree, he has come to his senses, the holy word Om on his lips, that then he had fallen asleep and had now woken up and was looking at the world as a new man" (P. 79-80). When a coconut bumps on someone's head, the person will usually suddenly remember a critical piece of information or have a sudden epiphany. Similarly, when Siddhartha slept under the coconut tree, he woke up as a renewed and refreshed man, able to fully grasp the significance of all his past experiences. Therefore, the coconut tree resembles his dynamic characterization, in which he realizes that his past experiences helped him obtain a grasp of nature, thus granting him enlightenment. While staying with Vasudeva, Siddhartha "...worked with Vasudeva in the rice-field, gathered wood, plucked the fruit off the banana-trees" (P. 93). Bananas are cultivated in multiple chunks and groups off of trees. These clumps all resemble Siddhartha's past experiences and growth, as well as the learning that he obtained from Vasudeva while studying by the river. Therefore, the tree resembles Siddhartha's growth in enlightenment, and the fruit represents his inner emotions or perceptions of life as he encounters all of these experiences.
"Seeking means: having a goal. But finding means: being free, being open, having no goal. You, Venerable One, may truly be a seeker, for, in striving toward your goal, you fail to see certain things that are right under your nose" (P. 122)
I thought that this passage summed up the theme of the book: that true enlightenment is achieved not through a defined step-by-step process, but through a plethora of experiences that will grant wisdom concerning the pros and cons of the world. Throughout the novel, Hesse emphasizes the contrast between Govinda and Siddhartha's characterizations. For instance, before Siddhartha joined the Samanas, the narrator stated, "Did the offerings bring happiness? And what about the gods? Was it really Prajapati who had created the world? Was it not Atman, he, the Only One, the All-One?" (P. 5). This is a prime example of Siddhartha's contentious personality, in which he questions all the miniscule problems about everything he follows. The chain of interrogative sentences establishes a sense of curiosity and ambivalence in the reader, in which the reader's emotions correspond to Siddhartha's conflicting emotions. This allows the reader to empathize with Siddhartha's motives to explore new experiences and obtain a grasp of the true experiences that the world had to offer. In the chapter "Gautama", while Siddhartha instantly recognized Gautama, Govinda turned his attention to monks, in which "nothing seemed to set him apart from the hundreds of other monks" (P. 26). By juxtaposing him with monks, Hesse established Govinda's adherent personality, in which he required a leader or mass to follow. Hesse also establishes their differences through the motif of stars. Siddhartha describes to Kamala, "Most people...are like a falling leaf, that wafts and drifts through the air...Others, however, few, are like stars: they have a fixed course, no wind reaches them, they have their law and their course inside them" (P. 64). The leaf represents Govinda, who only goes with the flow of his surroundings, and aimlessly follows others in an attempt to reach his goals. Siddhartha, on the other hand, is like a lone star; he goes along with methods and lifestyles that he deems beneficial to his path to enlightenment, and can decipher his feelings of discontent from his feelings of praise. Therefore, these passages illustrate the stark contrast between Govinda and Siddhartha, which Hesse purposefully implemented to demonstrate that those who try to taste new experiences will be able to achieve enlightenment faster than those without open minds that wish to satisfy fixed goals.
I actually think that Siddhartha can also be represented by the falling leaf. Recall that in the first chapter, when Siddhartha was meditating with Govinda, he repeatedly uttered the verses, "Om is bow, the arrow is soul, Brahma is the arrow's goal, It must be struck unswervingly." (Hesse 7) I wouldn't say that Siddhartha ever had a "fixed course" in his life. Even his goals and ideals for true happiness, or enlightenment, changed throughout the course of the story. After listening to your IOP, I would argue even more that Siddhartha "wafted and drifted through the air" in his journey to find enlightenment, as he was molded by each of his experiences and had no real "course" inside him. Instead of being a star, which would represent the static characterization of Govinda, the "leaf" is more characteristic of Siddhartha. Of course, another interpretation of the metaphor would be the strength, or resolve, of the "inner self," which would resemble a star much more in Siddhartha's example. However, referring back to my IOP of continuous change in an individual, I think that this is yet another example of the irony in Siddhartha's life, something that Siddhartha said but did not turn out to be true at all.
I think of Vasudeva as Siddhartha's guide or guardian angel on his path to enlightenment. This is because he seems to appear when Siddhartha is starting over with a rebirth. The first time is on pg 45, right after Siddhartha is waking up from his dream of Govinda. This is when Siddhartha is starting over by traveling through the village and becoming a wealthy, greedy gambler and is having his relationship with Kamala. Vasudeva carries him into this life like he is leading Siddhartha along his chosen path. The next time Siddhartha meets with Vasudeva is on pg 89. This was after he had his revelations by the river and decided that he wanted to spend his time there for a while to see if he could learn anything further from the ferryman or the river. He said, "I want to remain by this river, thought Siddhartha, it is the same one that I crossed while going to the child people," on pg 89. Vasudeva, the ferryman, guided him to enlightenment by continually telling Siddhartha to listen to the river and not telling him what he should do to reach enlightenment. Vasudeva believed that the river would teach him everything he needed to know, which eventually it did do. The last time Siddhartha saw Vasudeva was after they listened to the river and received all of its wisdom. This is on pg 120 and it says, "Radiant, he walked away; Siddhartha gazed after him. Deeply joyous, deeply earnest, he gazed after him, saw his steps full of peace, saw his head full of radiance, saw his figure full of light." I believe that after Siddhartha had found enlightenment, Vasudeva believed that his duty was done and that Siddhartha no longer needed him around for guidance or anything else. This shows how he is like a guardian angel because he is full of light like he is not a real person.
I agree with the fact that Vasudeva acted as a sort of guardian angel in Siddhartha's path to enlightenment, but I don't think he had anything to do with Siddhartha's life among the child people. He wanted to learn the art of love, but he realized it can only be paired with money and turning out like Kamaswami, and that's not how Siddhartha wanted to end up. He didn't think there was anything left for him, "Glutted full, full of misery, full of death, there was nothing more in the world that could entice him, give him pleasure..." (Hesse 69). He didn't think about the river or Vasudeva, just about his past adventures with Kamala, Govinda and many others. The river just coincidentally was there to save him at a very low time of his life, and that's why Siddhartha was reconnected with Vasudeva who led him to enlightenment.
I believe both points are true but I agree more with Abby. It's true that Vasudeva was not involved with Siddhartha's life when he went towards the child people, but I agree that Vasudeva was there to help Siddhartha cross towards that part of his life. Nate's point is also true because Vasudeva didn't really lead Siddhartha into the child people. Vasudeva was just there to help Siddhartha cross to a new life. Vasudeva is not aware of Siddhartha's goals and only did as he was told, shown where it says, "...Siddhartha asked the ferryman to take him to the other side. The ferryman took him across the river..." (pg 40). The only time Vasudeva did become involved in Siddhartha's life was when Siddhartha asked Vasudeva if he (Siddhartha) can live with Vasudeva to learn the ways of the river
I agree that Vasudeva did help Siddhartha along his journey to enlightenment, and near the end, helped to guide his path, but I also wouldn't say Vasudeva is the sole "guardian angel" to Siddhartha. Many people helped Siddhartha along his journey to enlightenment. Though Siddhartha may not recognize everyone who's helped him, he recognizes many,and say, this is shown when Hesse writes, "Once, a wandering diciple of the Buddha was my teacher; he sat with me during his pilgrimage when I had fallen asleep in the forest. I learned from him too, I was thankful for him too, very thankful" (123). I think Siddhartha had a lot of people in his life to guide him, even more than he realizes. In addition to Govinda and Vasudeva who helped Siddhartha, Gautama, Kamala, Kamaswami, and Siddhartha's parents had a big influence on him. All of these people can help, whether or not they exhibit holy influence. (Though Siddhartha does say that Vasudeva was his main teacher). Siddhartha seems to be more influenced actually by the non-religious aspects of life, but more with a oneness with the world and it's people.
In the chapter, Awakening, from pages 36 to 37, it is a major turning point for Siddhartha in his early stages of development. Before, Siddhartha had focused on following a teacher who would lead him to enlightenment, but now he has decided to no longer follow anyone but himself. This point in the book was inevitable since it had seemed that Siddhartha never found the answers he wanted through his previous teachers. This point, where he now has accepted ego and reality, gives him a re-birth on his perspective of the world. This is shown when the author writes, ‘He looked around as if seeing the world for the first time.” After this the author uses imagery to describe the outside world. Siddhartha obviously feels a strong sense of empowerment that can also be felt by the readers, as he shows excitement through the simple colors of the forest and river. The imagery used here, although simple, is very powerful because it gives the reader a better understanding of Siddhartha’s feelings. His recent realization of the beauty of nature shows how blinded he was before to all that nature can teach him. This new found realization leads him closer to enlightenment. Another important quote from the passage states, “For the first time, all this, all this yellow and blue, river and forest, passed into Siddhartha through his eyes, was no longer the magic of Mara, was no longer the veil of Maya…” This was my favorite quote from the passage because of the importance of what the author is writing. Mara, being the demon that tempted Buddha and Maya, the Hindu belief that reality isn’t what it seems, shows serious religious and spiritual reference to this passage. Siddhartha is realizing that the world isn’t all temptations of demons and a veil of worldly illusion that cannot be understood by humans. Considering how major of a belief this is to the Brahmans, this is a huge change for Siddhartha in his beliefs. He is going against something he was previously taught and has believed for most of his life. Understanding realism and that not everything is a work of evil, Siddhartha is starting over with his beliefs about the world. This is a good point for Siddhartha to begin his new journey but also is what misguides him down the path of the child-people. Did anyone else find this passage interesting or have a different interpretation of it?
I totally agree with you Olivia! The story would have taken a completely different turn if Siddhartha had stayed with human teachers. I also like how you explained the imagery and how nature can teach Siddhartha, because that is exactly what happened with the river. The point of the story where Siddhartha realizes "not everything is a work of evil," reminded me of a later quote in the book that we discussed, "everything that exists is good." It's very clear that through the book Siddhartha has changed his life, and his mindset completely. He went from being arrogant and seeing everything as evil, to being a new enlightened man with a positive outlook on life.
During the fishbowl last class, the topic of Siddhartha's arrogance was discussed. Many people in the group believed that Siddhartha was arrogant not only at the beginning of the story, but through the whole book. I tried to jump into the "Hot Seat," however someone had already gotten there, so I figured that I will share my opinion on this blog.
At the beginning of the story, Siddhartha was a very arrogant character. People that knew him believed that he "delighted and made everyone happy," (Page 5 in the blue book.) In my opinion, when people think highly of you, you have a greater chance of feeling more self important. Although arrogance isn't a good quality to possess, I do not blame Siddhartha for acting this way. As the story developed, Siddhartha fell back into temptation. On page 77, "Siddhartha had learned how to transact business affairs, to exercise power over people, to amuse himself with women; he had learned to wear fine clothes, to command servants, to bathe in sweet-smelling waters. He had learned to eat sweet and carefully prepared foods, also fish and meet and fowl, spices and dainties, and to drink wine which made him lazy and forgetful. He had learned to play dice and chess, to watch dancers, to be carried in sedan chairs, to sleep on a soft bed." This was during the time in Siddhartha's journey when he was learning from Kamaswami. Quickly, he came to the conclusion that he didn't desire to be like Kamaswami in any way, and continued on his journey without him by his side. After he discovered the river and felt enlightened, Siddhartha had "died and a new Siddhartha had awakened from his sleep," (Page 100.) At this moment, I believe that he realized his arrogance, and decided to let it die with his old soul. Beyond this point, he is aware of others, especially his son, and doesn't have an exaggerated sense of his own self importance. Although everyone does have an arrogant side, Siddhartha realizes his actions, and dramatically changes them in the last few chapters of the book. Therefore proving, that Siddhartha is not arrogant throughout the entire novel.
I agree that Siddhartha was arrogant during a majority of the book. However, I believe he stayed that way all the way through the end, and the way in which he talks to Govinda in the last chapter illustrates this. He thinks that the only path to enlightment is the path he went down, learning from the river and following its teachings. Govinda clearly didn't agree with what Sidhhartha was saying, "...his teachings sounds foolish. The pure teachings of the Exalted One sound different, clearer, purer, more understandable, with nothing peculiar, foolhardy or ridiculous in them." (pg. 116 in my book). Although Siddhartha may have let his old soul die, I still think certain traits that were very relevant in his life carried over to his new, enlightened body, the primary trait being arrogance. It may not be as noticeable as before, but it definitely still exists within him. This isn't his fault though. His treatment as a boy encouraged this behavior, just like you said. I'm sure he would like to be like Vasudeva and accept anything and everything, but I don't believe Siddhartha is capable of this.
During the fishbowl i heard the symbol of smiles come up and being discussed repeatedly. during the discussion someone made a point that those who smiled seemed to have reached enlightenment. though this can be true, smiles can mean something different as well. It could be interpreted that when someone smiled, it was as if they were smiling mockingly because they knew a secret that Siddhartha and the reader didn’t know yet. The Buddha smiles because he found a way to reach enlightenment. Vasudeva smiles because he found inner peace and also reached enlightenment within himself. Kamala smiles because she knows the art of making love and how to manipulate men into doing anything she wants them to do. Towards the end Siddhartha shared the same smile because he found enlightenment, but I could be interpreted as mocking Govinda because Siddhartha smiled to Govinda before Govinda understood. With the knowledge of how smiles could be interpreted good or bad, it changed the tone of the book for me. Instead of the feeling of pleasure and happiness, there was an opposite feeling of being mocked. This makes me wonder if Siddhartha interpreted the smiles as happiness and enlightenment or in a mocking way. When Siddhartha encountered the smiling person, he soon afterwards asked to become a student and learn the ways of the one who smiled. those who smiled tended to be important teachers. on page 23 Hesse writes, "His [Gotama] face was neither happy nor sad; it gave the impression of an inward smile." Hesse doesnt write if the smile was interpreted in a good way or in a mocking way. Smiles can be interpreted in many ways. It is hard to distinguish the different smiles. Those who may seem like they are smiling could be smiling because they are mocking the person without them knowing. On the other hand, smiles could be interpreted as a welcoming sign and can be used to show inner peace and pleasure. then after Siddhartha had his talk with Gotama, he acknowledges how the Buddha appeared to him. on page 29, Hesse writes " In truth that is just the way i [Siddhartha] would like to be able to gaze, smile, sit, and walk- so freely, so worthy, so hidden, so open, so childlike, and so mysterious." the last half seems as if Siddhartha may have realized that the smile could be Gotama mocking him because he knows the answer that Siddhartha is searching for. Do you think Siddhartha interpreted the smiles as mocking him?
For this post, I wanted to focus more on Siddhartha's son, and why he plays an important role in the end of the novel. I found a good quote to summarize what Siddhartha's feelings were towards him in the chapter "The Son." In this passage, he begins to realize the importance of what the child people have had for so long: the desire to love. "Indeed, he had never been able to loose himself completely in anyone else, give himself completely to another person, forget himself, commit follies of love for someone else. He had never been able to do these things, and this had struck him as the great gap between him and the child people" (Hesse 107). The significance in this passage is the way Hesse describes it: his son became an expression to the child people's desire of love, and his envious ways of having this love becoming fully realized. Throughout his journey, he has always had a "my enlightenment first" mind-set that led to him leaving people who had loved him the most, such as Govinda, Kamala, and his father. With his son being introduced in the story, he becomes emotionally attached to the boy and does not want him to leave, just as his father did before him. It can be thought of as a Karmic cycle, as one's actions interlink with one's future actions. Siddhartha neglected his father when he decided to become a samana, so the son will neglect him and try to move away to follow his own path. " He was bored with his father, who kept him captive in his wretched hut, he was bored with him and with his way of responding to every rotten act with smiles, to every insult with friendliness, to every nastiness with kindness- that was the most hateful cunning of that old conniver." (Hesse 108) It is almost as if Siddhartha's son was behaving similarly to when he was younger, uninterested and wanting more out of life than the same meaningless tasks. Do you think this is true? Is the way Siddhartha's son is acting a fault of Siddhartha, or of the child people?
I agree with many of your points, Josiah. Siddhartha the son is clearly what changed Siddhartha in the novel; he is what allowed Siddhartha to discover love. As sated in your passage, Siddhartha was never capable of loving someone, even those whom he shared much of his life with. Hesse’s use of the word ‘follies’ indicates that Siddhartha believes that it is foolish and beneath him to love someone, further characterizing Siddhartha as arrogant. When he meets his son though, he indulges in this emotion of the child people and lets himself completely love Siddhartha the son. I wondered while reading this section though if the only reason Siddhartha could love his son is because he recognized that he was a part of him? The purpose of Siddhartha the son, in my opinion, is to humble Siddhartha an humanize him. This is evident when Siddhartha the son runs away and Siddhartha goes looking for him. Hesse wrote, “He felt a deep love for the runaway boy, like a wound, and yet felt at the same time that this wound was not intended to fester in him, but that it should heal.” (Hesse 126). The idea that Siddhartha has now experienced loss and love illustrates how he has felt the emotions of regular people, like the child people; although he is still arrogant, he is now more humbled. This allows him to reach enlightenment as he has finally reached a point where he can relate to humanity rather than believing he is better than everyone else. Siddhartha the son allows him to reach his goal and also experience many basic human emotions.
Like both of you, Siddhartha's relationship with his son brought me back to Siddhartha's relationship with his own father. I found that his refusal to accept and reciprocate love could be summed up on page 5. "He had started feeling that his father's love, and his mother's love, and also his friend Govinda's love would not make him happy and forever always, not please him, not gratify him, not satisfy him" (5). Like both of you mentioned, love was never the goal for Siddhartha, but it is what he ended up chasing when he met his son. I think this goes back to what Hayden said about Siddhartha's son allowing him to reach his goal. His whole journey was about letting go of himself and the only way to really do that is to pour it into someone else.
I think Siddhartha's son's actions is both a result of the child people and Siddhartha's own actions. While not explicitly stated, Siddhartha's son must have been influenced in some way by the child people while growing up, it is impossible he would have no encounter with any of them, and the way he acts is very reminiscent of the way Siddhartha viewed the child people, defiant and greedy, among other things. Yet at the same time, his actions are also a result of Siddhartha's own actions, where Siddhartha provokes this kind of reaction through his unconditional love and kindness, never punishing his son, only acting in one way. Another interesting point is how Siddhartha feels, "He[Siddhartha] did sense that this love, this blind love for his son, was a passion, something very human, that it was samsara, a troubled wellspring, a dark water" (107). Here Siddhartha realizes he is experiencing something that he has never felt before, but seen in the child people previously, which I connected back to the original point; Siddhartha jr.'s actions are a result of Siddhartha and the child people, but Siddhartha has become in a child person in the way he cares for his son.
I was re-reading "Om," and suddenly this quote stood out for me.
"He(Siddhartha) spoke for a long time, and as Vasudeva listened with his still face, Siddhartha felt Vasudeva's listen more strongly than ever before."(111)
At first, I thought Vasudeva as a teacher, who guilds Siddhartha to the enlightenment. Then I read this quote and thought Vasudeva is more than just a teacher. I think he is actually a God figure, and God doesn't necessary mean God in specific religion. When Siddhartha first meet Vasudeva, he was about to fall in sinful life in the city. Siddhartha himself also was little arrogant and full of self-confidence. Later, after Siddhartha dives into the river and rebirth, he meets Vasudeva again and become his friend. This plot seemed to me like Vasudeva saved Siddhartha, as God redeems people. Also, as the quote above shows, Thalidomide often acknowledges new idea after he talks about this thoughts to Vasudeva, This is exactly like the relationship between people and their God. They speak to God and by thinking God is listen to them, they recover their injury of mind and become peaceful. Even more, this process of listening and speaking is the last step toward the enlightenment of Siddhartha. Also, through out the last part of the story, Vasudeva is described as he knows everything about Siddhartha. One example for this is when Vasudeva gives advice to Siddhartha, Siddhartha replies "you have seen into my heart," and later it says, "Vasudeva had told him nothing that he himself had not already thought and know"(101). Vasudeva understands Siddhartha, and in many religions, God is one who knows everything and does what he thinks to lead its believers to the correct path. The relationship between Vasudeva and Siddhartha is very similar to relationship between a person and God. I think Vasudeva's compared to God to show a person can't guide another one. The book Siddhartha is all about wondering inside of a person's own mind and find perfection from there. Think about Govinda, who tried to reach Om by following Gautama. He failed, while Siddhartha, who only believed himself, succeeded to reach perfection. God is a very personal concept. It is more like how people interpret it and how they accept God, than what actually it is. Based on this idea, Vasudeva is not just a God, but the God of Siddhartha who exist inside of Siddhartha. Therefore, I concluded that portraying image of God to Vasudeva reveals theme that people can find perfection from themselves, and only from themselves.
This really fits into how Hesse reconciled Western and Eastern values into the book. Interesting, because so many of these ideas conflict with each other. Not only that, but it ties in with Siddhartha's thinking in the first chapter. Siddhartha had pondered, "And where was the Atman to be found, where did he dwell, where did his eternal heart beat if not in one's own self, in the innermost, in the indestructible essence that every person bore within?" (Hesse 5) Could we view Siddhartha and Vasudeva as essentially the same person, since Siddhartha pretty much replaced Vasudeva as the ferryman? It's also interesting because the relationship between Siddhartha and Vasudeva reminds me of the relationship between Siddhartha and Govinda, but those can be considered completely different. However, I do find it odd that if Hesse wanted to stress the idea of finding perfection from within oneself, he would use a projection of Siddhartha's own self to show that concept.
In reply, I have two ideas. It could be that Vasudeva is the image of a person who Siddhartha has always strived to be for. When Vasudeva says "I have waited for this moment, dear friend." (Hesse 119) Perhaps he was simply created out of Siddhartha's own expectations out of himself.
Another explanation is that Hesse is using Vasudeva to show that guidance, or teaching, can still be a method of attaining enlightenment. Rather than rejecting conformity, I think that Hesse shows us even further that the method to become enlightened, or truly happy, depends on the individual. This is shown when Siddhartha notes that "he saw life, liveliness, indestructibility, Brahma in each of their [the child people's] passions, each of their deeds." (Hesse 114) Everything is dependent on the individual in question, and even the child people can find enlightenment in a lifestyle that Siddhartha used to reject. In other words, Hesse is telling readers that enlightenment can be found with any method, as long as it suits the seeker who is using that method.
After looking back through Siddhartha in preparation for the fishbowl and the in class write, I found a passage that really stood out to me personally. In this section Vasudeva and Siddhartha are talking about the idea that time in non-existent. The passage begins with Siddhartha asking Vasudeva, “Have you also learned that secret from the river; that there is no such thing as time?” (Hesse 106). At first I was extremely confused by this statement; how could an axiom such as time not exist? Hesse’s meaning became clearer as I read on. Vasudeva responded to Siddhartha “ ‘Yes, Siddhartha,’ he said. ‘Is this what you mean? That the river is everywhere at the same time, at the source and at the mouth, at the waterfall, at the ferry, at the current, in the ocean, and in the mountains, everywhere, and the present only exists for it, not the shadow of the past, nor the shadow of the future?’ “ (Hesse 107). I thing Vasudeva’s statements clarifies what Hesse aims to say through this passage. Earlier in the chapter, I interpreted that the river was symbolic of life and humanity as a whole. By writing that the river is everywhere at once, Hesse essentially says that the life is everywhere and flows through the world, interconnected, like a river. Additionally, by including the aspect of time not being real, Hesse implies that life is always recreating and living on; it has existed before us and will continuing existing after us. This idea is also reminiscent of the idea of reincarnation from Buddhism and Hinduism. Furthermore, Hesse’s use of anaphora with the word “at” as the beginning of several phrases creates a meditative and thoughtful tone to the passage. Lastly, I found Hesse’s use of syntax at the end of the passage interesting. Hesse phrases Vasudeva’s responses as a question which shows how Vasudeva looks to be an advisor to Siddhartha who helps him make his own decisions rather than a teacher that makes decisions for him. If anyone has any other interpretations, please respond!
I agree that this passage Hesse wrote about time was very powerful and significant in further identifying the symbolism behind the river. The anaphora you talked about is something that I also noticed throughout the book and it was also used right before the passage you discussed. On page 93 and 94, Hesse wrote, "Above all, it taught him how to listen, to listen with a silent heart, with a waiting, open soul, without passion, without desire, without judgement, without opinion." The anaphora here also creates a meditative tone surrounding Siddhartha as Hesse writes about all that he has learned from the river. The river represents the continuity of life shown through it's many aspects and the anaphora, creating the meditative tone through its repetitiveness, helps show how much Siddhartha has already changed and learned from listening to the river and how the river's sacredness and holiness now surrounds him.
I was thinking about the relationship between Siddhartha and Govinda, and suddenly this passage stood out to me; "Deeply Govinda bowed...and like a fire the feeling of the most ardent of love, the most humble reverence was burning in his heart. Deeply he bowed...whose smile reminded him of everything he had ever loved in all his life, everything that had ever, in all his life, been dear to him and holy."(126). I first thought Siddhartha at this point symbolizes the enlightenment or humanity itself, because that's what Govinda has looked for throughout his entire life. However, it is still odd to me Hesse's diction in this passage, Why does he use words like "ardent love" and "feeling of fire?" As someone mentioned early in the class, Siddhartha refers Govinda consistently throughout the book. He thinks about Govinda when he is with Kamala and Vasudeva. He even has dream about Govinda becomes women. Also, Siddhartha refers Govinda as "beloved one, "dearest friend," or "my Govinda." I'm not necessarily saying Siddhartha is homosexual, but I think there is some feeling is going between Siddhartha and Govinda, because the diction Hesse uses in there conversation is very full of love and adore. It is also true that Siddhartha treats Govinda as just his follower and belittles Govinda in the beginning of the book, but later their relationship become more mutal. For example, Govinda helps Siddharth when he is despaired after he left Kamala, and Siddhartha helps Govinda at the last chapter of the book. So I think the motif of love between Siddhartha and Govinda is not just love but symbolism of something, but I don't know what this relationship could symbolize. in addition, the relationship between Siddhartha and Govinda is very interesting to me. I think the initial intention of characterization of Govinda is to contrast him with Shorthand. The book describes Siddhartha as a founder while Govinda as a follower. Considering that Siddhartha reaches the enlightenment while Govinda fails, Hesse contrast this two thinkers to show you can't reach the enlightenment by following others; you must find it from inside of your mind. However, they also love and help each other. This makes me be very confused. Am I the only one thinks like this? Is there anyone has an opinion about this?
(Here is just an additional information outside from the book. My version of the Siddhartha includes the translator's preface, and it says when Siddhartha talks to Govinda, he uses word "Lierber," which literally means "dear one" or "beloved one." in German. I found it is interesting because we don't usually call our friend "beloved one.")
During the Fishbowl, most of the major symbols were brought up and discussed in detail. The songbird, though, I feel like wasn't talked about enough based on its importance. On the surface, the bird clearly represents Siddhartha, and when it is freed by Kamala, this represents the new chapter in his life. But if you look underneath that basic knowledge, you'll find that the cage has a separate meaning. "When she was first informed of Siddhartha's disappearance, she stepped over to the window, where she kept a rare songbird captive in a golden cage." (pg. 68 in my book). I think the golden cage is a symbol of how material goods were holding Siddhartha back. Learning the art of love with Kamala or the way to run a business with Kamaswami wasn't his calling. This blockade, or "golden cage" (gold representing money and material goods) kept him from achieving nirvana. However, this bird was freed and he did attain enlightment, but only from the lowest of lows could he receive the highest of highs. Even after he is set free by Kamala, the songbird reference continues to appear. When he is contemplating suicide, the author describes his thoughts as, "Dead was the songbird of which he had dreamed. Dead was the bird in his heart." (pg. 69). But after being awakened by the river and Vasudeva, the bird is brought up once again, "And yet this path has been very good, and yet the bird in my breast has not died!...you have heard the bird singing in your breast and have followed it!" (pg. 76-77). His coincidental run in with the river saves his life and revives the songbird in his soul. It is mentioned several times following his original encounter with the river, but that changes when Kamala is found hanging onto the last string of her life. After her death, the symbol of the bird isn't discussed again, and I can't help but think, was there still apart of him that wanted to be with Kamala, that little flutter of wings within his chest that wanted his old life full of riches back?
Your insight on this symbol has also made me wonder if Siddhartha did want his old life back. I do believe that he did want his old life back, but it wasn't old Siddhartha himself. Since most of the time, they believed in reincarnation and karma, I believe that his want for his old life is now in young Siddhartha. Which leads me to say that I disagree that the symbol of the bird is gone. It's more or less, transferred into a new being or character. The symbol of the bird does repeat again when Vasudeva is advising old Siddhartha about what to do with young Siddhartha. Vasudeva says to old Siddhartha, "The young bird is used to another life, another kind of nest," (pg 92). Vasudeva is saying that the young Siddhartha is used to a life of riches and that young Siddhartha wants to go back to that. Vasudeva further explains this point in the same passage where he says, "He has not...run away from wealth..."(pg 92). So, yes the symbol of the bird has left old Siddhartha but it has returned once young Siddhartha came. Which means, Siddhartha (young and reincarnated) wants to return to his old life of riches.
Nate, I see your how you believe Hesse is using the symbolism of the golden cage to represent the greed and wealth that is holding Siddhartha back from reaching true enlightenment. However, another way to look at this symbolism of the golden cage would be that the author is trying to show the importance of the songbird. Hesse using symbolism with the songbird to portray Siddhartha's soul and inner peace. By placing the bird in a gold cage, this is showing the reader the importance of this. Think about how society uses gold to represent value. When you treat others the way you want to be treated, we called this "The Golden Rule". If a business appreciates a customer, they give them a "gold card'. When a married couple reaches their 50th anniversary, they celebrate their "Golden Anniversary". I believe the author is trying to relate the value of our inner peace buy inclosing the songbird in gold.
Almost all of the changes that Siddhartha goes through are the result of discontent and all are drastic. The one transition that stuck out to me the most was his ‘almost’ suicide attempt by the river.
“What all the recent torturing, all sobering, all despairing had failed to do was effected by the moment when the om pierced his consciousness: he recognized himself in his misery and his vagary” (79).
I thought that this particular part of the book was more ridiculous than the rest. One moment Siddhartha was ready to give up life and the next he “knew about Brahma, knew about the indestructibility of life, knew again about all the godliness he had forgotten” (79). For me, this passage is about Siddhartha ‘coming full circle.’ Siddhartha had to be close to suicide to realize the indestructibility of life and commit sin in order to know how to live without. In other words, I thought that Hesse used Siddhartha’s drastic change in attitude to let the reader know that you must hit rock bottom before you can reach your best.
Interesting point, as Siddhartha did have intentions of ending his life after he had left Kamala and the child people. It seemed that the word "om", the old and final word of Brahman prayer had appeared out of nowhere. I wonder why this had appeared, and how it was able to frighten him enough to see through his actions. I believe it was because of the way om was presented at the start of the book. "He already knew how to soundlessly speak the om, the word of words, soundlessly speak it into himself, breathing it in, soundlessly speak it out of himself..." (Hesse 3). This can represent the fact that he is already familiar with the voice of om, and will save his life later in the story when he is disillusioned by the materialistic ways of the child people. the way you describe how this can relate to the reader is true, but I would like to know more of more examples of where this takes place, as I am sure that reaching bottom before setting out on top can be common for these types of characters.
As i was reading the book again, a quote struck out to me. "But his friend, the brahmin's son Govinda, loved him more than any other. He loved Siddhartha's gaze and his sweet voice, he loved his way of walking and the complete grace of his movements; he loved everything Siddhartha did and said..." (hesse 4) this stood out to me because oh how Govinda seems in love with Siddhartha. this got me thinking about if Herman Hesse was trying to relate Siddhartha's relationship with Govinda to that of a man's feelings and love towards another man (or in simple terms, a gay couple). this realization on how similar the two relationships are makes me wonder if that is why the book became popular in the 1960s. during the 1960s, there was a lot of riots going on, including riots about gay rights. it could be possible that when reading this book, someone could think that Siddhartha and Govinda have intense feelings for each other. this is a possibility but there is the problem of Herman Hesse being Christian. i looked into Hesse's life and found that his marriages did not last. although it does not say anything about Hesse ever having any feelings for a male, one might think that Hesse could harbor secret feelings and could only express these feelings through small gestures in the book. this can be interpreted that Hesse had secret feelings and that the love Govinda has for Siddhartha could be expressed as Hesse trying to express his own feelings for a male in his life.
Herman Hesse uses animalistic diction at the end of part one and the beginning of part two to share the transformation from Siddhartha's life with Govinda to his life with Kamala. In Awakening Hesse describes Siddhartha as shivering "...inwardly like a small animal, like a bird or a hare,"(41). As Siddhartha's peaceful life of knowledge with Govinda ends Siddartha enters a more animal like stage in preparation for a sexual life with Kamala. At the end of the chapter, just before Part 2 when he meets Kamala, Siddhartha undergoes a immense change, "...He was overwhelmed by a feeling of icy despair... the last shudder of his awakening, the last pains of birth,"(41-42).This quote touches on the topic of reincarnation. Siddhartha's "birth" represents his new life and his "awakening" represents his newly discovered sexual desires that were dormant during his past life. These sexual desires and animalistic comparisons are further expressed by the author when Siddhartha meets the young woman by the river and she turns into a pig. They also appear when Siddhartha meets Kamala for the first time. Whenever Kamala is mentioned in the book the author almost always mentions how her lips are similar to a fig. For example, "...a bright red mouth like a freshly cut fig..."(51) and "He put his face against hers, placed his lips against hers, which were like that of a freshly cut fig,"(57). While this could be a connection to Siddhartha's impending enlightenment it could also be a nod to Siddhartha's animalistic behavior. Animals are extremely driven by food. Imagine a dog when it is about to receive it's meal; the animal is very aroused and focused on the object of its desire. Siddhartha is like the dog. He is aroused and enticed by the object of his sexual desires; Kamala and her lips. In Samsara when Siddhartha is about to move on to his next life and no longer desires Kamala sexually he refers to her lips without mentioning figs, "...he lay beside her and Kamala's face was near to his, and under her eyes and near the corners of her mouth he could read clearly for the first time a sad sign," (81). Now that Siddhartha's animal like desires have been extinguished by his realization of discontent in his life he is no longer attracted to Kamala and is ready to move on to his next life.
While discussing the cycle of samsara in my IOP today, we came across the question regarding if Siddhartha truly attained enlightenment at the end. At the end of the chapter "Om," we see that Siddhartha gained some sort of transcendental knowledge from the river, to which Vasudeva said "'I have waited for this moment, dear friend. Now it has come; let me go. I have waited and waited for this moment, I was Vasudeva the ferryman for years and years... Farewell, Siddhartha!'" (Hesse 119). Vasudeva then goes into the forest, "into the oneness." (Hesse 120).
This quote is extremely significant not only because it represents Vasudeva's breaking from the cycle of samsara, but it made me realize that Siddhartha is still in a cycle - the life of a ferryman. Originally I thought that the moment one attained enlightenment, they would be able to attain nirvana, but I never considered what "attaining nirvana" meant. So, I did some research and found that the state called "nirvana" is actually just when you can no longer attain bad karma, and spend the rest of your life (or future lives) working off the accumulated karma. "Parinirvana" is the end of the cycle where you no longer become reincarnated in the afterlife.
So, what was Vasudeva's goal of walking into the forest? Did he die there, and attain parinirvana? Also, if Siddhartha only attained nirvana, that means that he'd presumably spend the rest of his life working as a ferryman to work off the bad karma he had generated in the past. In other words, does Siddhartha's story truly have a resolution? Or should it be considered a resolution because we know that he'll eventually, in some "life," attain parinirvana?
Throughout all of the class discussions, Siddhartha has generally been classified as an arrogant person. The argument for this, usually the fact that Siddhartha "abandoned" many people that were close to him. But at the early beginning of the book, there is a passage that describes how he truly feels, as after it, the narration states "These were Siddhartha's thoughts; this was his thirst; his sorrow." (pg. 8) In the passage, it states that "Siddhartha had begun to feel the seeds of discontent within him. He had begun to feel that the love of his father and mother, and also the love of his friend Govinda, would not always make him happy, give him peace, satisfy and suffice him." (pg. 5) This quote is the justification for Siddhartha leaving the ones that he was close to. Although leaving his family made them sad, Siddhartha believed that discovering the secret to perpetual satisfaction (or in other words, enlightenment) was more important. Siddhartha also believed that everybody should reach this goal for themselves (like Gotama and Vasudeva).
One might also say that, if Siddhartha isn't arrogant, then he's selfish instead (for prioritizing his enlightenment over others' feelings). Siddhartha knew that he was selfish, and he wasn't ashamed of it either. It ultimately came down to what he personally valued more when he was given the options "individual" or "society". He chose the "individual" route. In the end, this option turned out to be better, as he ended up returning to the most important person that he had loved: Govinda. "Govinda bowed low. Incontrollable tears trickled down his old face. He was overwhelmed by a feeling of great love, of the most humble veneration." (pg. 151) Essentially, Siddhartha was just helping himself first before returning to others.
Do you guys think Siddhartha went through his life correctly? Do you think that the story would have ended differently if he had cared more about the ones he was close to?
In my opinion, even though Siddhartha did show an abundance of arrogance throughout the book, his arrogance is not what lead him to leave the people in his life. Siddhartha did prioritize his own goals but that doesn't mean he didn't care about the people in his life like Govinda. I think Siddhartha knew they would be okay without him and believed that finding enlightenment was important for everyone to achieve without being held back by anyone. For example, when Siddhartha first left Govinda, he said, "Govinda, my friend, you have taken the step, you have chosen the path... now you have become a man and are choosing your own path. May you walk to its end, O my friend! May you find deliverance!" (Hesse 29). Siddhartha cares for Govinda, he is excited that he has chosen a different path because he wants him to find enlightenment through his own way even if that means they have to split up. In this scene Siddhartha isn't showing arrogance, he is showing happiness that both him and his beloved friend can go their separate ways to achieve their goals. Therefore, I don't believe the story would've ended differently if Siddhartha had cared more for the people in his life because I think he already cares for them a great deal and would still make the same choices.
Siddhartha probably would not have taken the same path to enlightenment if he had allowed himself to be influenced by his loved ones’ emotions; in fact, if he had decided to stay with the Brahmins, the Samanas, or Gotama, he might never have reached true enlightenment at all. A more empathetic individual possibly could have learned from the mistakes of others and achieved inner peace even within the bounds of society, but Siddhartha, who could not identify with most of his fellow human beings -- not blindly dedicated ascetics, not the so-called “child people” -- had to experience everything for himself. In fact, after abandoning the materialistic world of Kamaswami in “By the River,” Siddhartha realizes that his years in that world have led him to understand “not only with my intellect, but with my eyes, with my heart, with my stomach” (Hesse 80) that wealth cannot bring anyone true happiness or inner peace. This quote also suggests that Siddhartha's distanced intellectual attitude has put him at a disadvantage in his quest for enlightenment. In the end, if Siddhartha had not experienced the “soul sickness of the rich” (63) firsthand, he would never have fully grasped the importance of detachment from the physical world; he probably would have found the self-denial of asceticism meaningless without an understanding of the opposite lifestyle. In addition, because Siddhartha is a didactic novel that explores many unfulfilling philosophies in sequence before arriving at the “ideal” lifestyle (represented by Siddhartha's calm, humble life as a ferryman), the plot requires an ambitious, determined, detached protagonist whose main motivation is a search for enlightenment. Siddhartha's exaggerated individualism, which has allowed him to move among castes and communities with a certain level of freedom, gives Hesse the ability to depict many different conceptions of reality from the same perspective. However, I don't believe that Hesse intended to portray Siddhartha's ruthless attitude or his final lifestyle as ideals for the reader to emulate; instead, Siddhartha's journey could be interpreted metaphorically, as a dramatic demonstration of the importance of mental and spiritual balance. Hesse presents Siddhartha not as an idealized hero but as a flawed character who gradually discovers universal truths. When Siddhartha finally recognizes and overcomes many of his flaws in “Om,” his assertion that “these ordinary people were his brothers” creates a strong, surprising contrast when compared with his former arrogance. Throughout the novel, Siddhartha's egotistical nature gave him room for drastic character development through experimentation, allowing the reader to understand Hesse's message with greater clarity. I think Siddhartha would not be Siddhartha if he didn't have to get over his contempt for humanity; his selfishness was necessary for the story to function.
Belinda's IOP inspired me to look into the cycles of samsara. I felt that this quote exemplified the asuras, or the demon realm. "And yet he [Siddhartha] envied them, envied them all the more the more he resembled them.He envied them for the one thing he lacked and that they had:the importance they were able to place on their lives, the passionateness of their joys and fears, the queasy but sweet happiness of being eternally in love" (69). I thought that this quote clearly showed how Siddhartha wanted to be superior while also feeling a sort of pity for himself. What was especially interesting to me, was Siddhartha's own feelings throughout the book: he's always praised, looked up to, or otherwise felt in high regard, yet he himself always feels inferior or is longing for something others seem to find easily. This really resonated with the idea that Belinda presented, how Hesse uses certain devices to make the story and Siddhartha relatable. In this case, one might find it difficult to relate to Siddhartha because he is always so great, praised or found to be destined for greatness, yet even someone like Siddhartha struggles with jealousy and desire, as well as feelings of inferiority to others, including those he feels are lesser than himself. This then makes it much easier to relate to him because Siddhartha is portrayed in a light different from the infallible Siddhartha. Overall I thought Siddhartha was fairly relatable even through his stubborn, determined, egotistical self, though it took some deeper looking in to to find connections like these, and not just taking the face value or his emotions and desires.
Rereading "Govinda," I noticed that Siddhartha ends on a somewhat unstable note because Govinda's quest for enlightenment is never resolved. The fact that Siddhartha and Govinda presumably start living together again in their later years does provide the reader with a certain amount of closure, but Siddhartha's final scene reveals that the unequal nature of their relationship has not changed. Even when Govinda experiences his final epiphany, in which he discovers the unity of all life in Siddhartha's peaceful smile, Govinda knows that he is merely seeing enlightenment from the outside; he catches a glimpse of the world through Siddhartha's beautiful perspective, but he knows that it is not his own. Hesse describes the vision as separated from Govinda's inner being by "something thin, unreal and yet existing, stretched across like thin glass or ice, like a transparent skin, shell, form or mask of water -- and this mask was Siddhartha's smiling face which Govinda touched with his lips at that moment" (Hesse 122). This "shell" or "mask represents a layer of false spiritual understanding, the final layer of the darkness that obscures the pure glow of enlightenment. Because this description is from Govinda's point of view, the contradictory phrase "unreal and yet existing" suggests Govinda's unwillingness to acknowledge the distance between his mind and Siddhartha's. The repetition of the word "mask" (a word with strong negative associations to hollowness, deception, and even fear) implies that Govinda's thoughts are fixated on this distance. I also found it interesting that the Hesse's use of anaphora in this scene is less regular than in the rest of the narration; the sentence structures are also generally simpler, as in "Govinda bowed low. Incontrollable tears trickled down his old face" (122). The anaphora in the description of Siddhartha’s face (discussed above) also does not have the even pattern that most of the narration from Siddhartha’s perspective has. As a whole, the symbolism and the subtly uneven diction in this section suggest that Govinda’s mindset is less confident and less stable than Siddhartha’s. I also noticed that the final image in Siddhartha is that of Govinda weeping quietly and kneeling in front of Siddhartha, “overwhelmed by a feeling of great love, of the most humble veneration” (122); this strongly emotional tableau reveals that Hesse has probably reintroduced Govinda in order to use his continued struggle as a contrast to Siddhartha’s inner peace and completeness. Govinda’s appearance at this point in the book also allows the reader to revisit a character more “human” in his weaknesses and indecision than Siddhartha, implying that the reader should see the reformed Siddhartha as a spiritual role model. I personally saw Govinda’s unfinished journey as a somewhat tragic story because Govinda appears to be condemned to the role of Siddhartha’s “shadow,” to a life of inferiority and admiration rather than self-realization, despite all his earnest strivings. I also noticed that this chapter and the first chapter ("The Brahmin's Son") are the only parts of Siddhartha with any narration from Govinda's perspective. Why do you think Hesse chose to return to Govinda's POV instead of focusing on the "perfected" ultimate state of our triumphant hero, Siddhartha? Is the effect of viewing Siddhartha’s life and accomplishments from a distance powerful enough to merit this departure from the main perspective, or would it have been better to give Siddhartha the final word?
From the fishbowl discussion, an interesting symbol was pointed out to me. The symbol of smiling introduced a very important aspect of the book. Throughout the book there are not many occasions where the characters are described as smiling. Each moment where Hesse writes that a character is smiling is a significant part of the book representing that the character has achieved enlightenment. The rare use of this symbol shows the readers the significance of those passages where the characters inner happiness is shown. On page 27, the first description of Gautama says, "His silent face was neither cheerful nor woeful: he seemed to be smiling inwardly. With a calm, silent, hidden smile not unlike a healthy child's, the Buddha walked..." (Hesse). The Buddha is the first man Siddhartha has witnessed that has shown to be enlightened. His enlightenment and sacredness is represented in this passage through his smile. Where it states he was "smiling inwardly" also shows that smiling is achieved when you find inner peace and happiness. The next smile Siddhartha encounters is on Vasudeva's face. After, Siddhartha has started the next part of his journey after leaving Govinda he takes a ride on the ferry and first meets the ferryman. They talk for a little bit and as Siddhartha leaves it says, "Smiling, they parted. Smiling, Siddhartha was delighted with the ferryman's friendship and friendliness" (Hesse 46). The smiling is emphasized around Vasudeva, who later is shown to be enlightened. Again, only the truly blissful people have been shown to smile and in this point of the book Siddhartha shows his happiness about the ferryman's generosity. When Siddhartha, at the end of the book, finally reaches his enlightenment, the symbol of smiling occurs again. On page 119, it says, "Bright shone his smile when he looked at his friend, and bright now glowed the very same smile on Siddhartha's face" (Hesse). The smiles on both of their faces are described as radiant and glowing showing how the enlightenment is now within both Vasudeva and Siddhartha. Overall the symbol of smiling is used by Hesse to really show the inner happiness that is found in enlightenment. Did anyone else find other significant parts in the book where smiling occurs? Does anyone find a different aspect of this symbol that helps identify the characters?
One thing I noticed while reading Siddhartha was the use of third person. Just before Siddhartha leaves to join the Samanas he speaks to Govinda, "'Tomorrow morning, my friend, Siddhartha is going to join the Samanas. He is going to become a Samana,'"(9). Throughout the book third person is used to show Siddhartha's progress on his path to enlightenment. In the quote on page nine Siddhartha is early on in his quest to find himself and enlightenment. Therefore he refers to himself in third person. Later in the book when Siddhartha is further on his quest and is more connected to himself the main character's use of third person is less frequent. A example of this is found on page 38, "I will no longer study Yoga-Veda, Atharva-Veda, or ascesticism, or any other teachings. I will learn from myself, be my own pupil..."(38). Siddhartha no longer refers to himself in the third person as the book goes on because he has formed more of a connection with himself. Through the growth of this connection Siddhartha comes closer to reaching enlightenment.
I agree with Fiona to an extent, but I wish to elaborate on the use of third person by Hesse in the novel. When third person is used in "The Brahmin's Son", I believe it used to characterize Siddhartha as a weak individual, one who is a lesser being in comparison to those who are enlightened. He is unable to connect with his inner self at this time, and therefore refers to this inner conscience as an entirely separate entity. During this time, Siddhartha is very arrogant and nature. As it is shown throughout the book, this arrogance is a major factor in leading his demise, and a major obstacle in his path to achieving enlightenment. Third person is used occasionally as well in "With the Shramanas", also a time when Siddhartha was arrogant in his nature, and overall a sinful individual. As the story progresses however into the later chapters, and Siddhartha nears achieving enlightenment this use of third person becomes almost non-existent. This is a way of Hesse to further exemplify his ideals, in which as Siddhartha's arrogance and sinfulness starts to fade, his connections with his inner soul inversely are intensified. Siddhartha begins to become one with his soul and his conscience. As Siddhartha becomes connected with his inner self, he also begins to see the path to enlightenment. The use of third person is simply another tool used by Hesse to present the theme: the ideal that one can only find enlightenment or success in life, by ridding oneself from the atrocities that are greed and arrogance.
I agree with your idea in the sense of the use of third person. From the beginning of the book to when Siddartha comes close to finding enlightenment he uses third person by referring to himself to himself in third person it shows how the character is dettached from his actual self or being. I feel like enlightenment wasn't the only object he had to overcome to find himself. One of the biggest objects Siddartha has to overcome was beginning to trust and rely on him self and other instead of questioning the world. For instance, "Quote 30: "Therefore, it seems to me that everything that exists is good - death as well as life, sin as well as holiness, wisdom as well as folly. Everything is necessary, everything needs only my agreement, my assent, my loving understanding; then all is well with me and nothing can harm me...I needed lust to strive for property...to learn not to resist them." (116) Once Siddartha comes to te sense that the world is good and comes to enlightenment I feel that he finally fines himself.
During one of the IOP’s, the reoccurring symbol of a bird was brought up and how it changed during each stage of Siddhartha’s life. I noticed the song bird and its meaning when Kamala released it from its cage, but I never saw how a different type of bird represented the stages he goes through in his journey to enlightenment. The first bird used to represent Siddhartha is the falcon, “…in the shade of the banyan fig Siddhartha grew up, the handsome son of the Brahmin, the young falcon…” (Hesse 5). Falcons are commonly known to be elegant, but speedy hunters. During his childhood, Siddhartha was referred to as a very handsome boy, just like a falcon. The second bird used to illustrate Siddhartha was the heron, which was Hesse described as, “A heron flew over the bamboo forest – and Siddhartha took the heron into his soul…” (Hesse 14). A heron is a wading bird, and in this part of the book, Siddhartha is wading through the beliefs of the shramanas. The third bird is the owl, the bird of wisdom. It foreshadows a dark path for Siddhartha, “…deep in the woods the euphonious dark call of an owl sounded.” (Hesse 41). The owl was warning him that the path of material goods and money is not for him, but Siddhartha continued anyway. He eventually had the intelligence to abandon his life with Kamala, leading into the final bird. The last bird used to represent Siddhartha is the song bird. It was mentioned numerous times beforehand, but following Kamala’s release of it from its golden cage, the bird becomes more noticeable, “…and yet the bird in my breast has not died…you have heard the bird singing in your breast and have followed it!” (Hesse 76-77). He is now free from his life in the city and can reach enlightenment with the river.
All the characters except Kamaswami have spiritual desires and seek enlightenment. This includes various spiritual routes and paths. For instance Siddarthas father the Bramin continues on his traditional sacrificial rituals. Govinda becomes a follower of Buddah, as does Kamala. And than most importantly Siddartha, is the most determined to become enlightened and follow his own path. By his curis self he goes through all the paths but by the end decides to create his own. I find that this is important because it allows him to endure all the evil (or 7 deadly sins) in the world to understand that material objects aren't eternal and to force him to rely on himself. For instance, "Slowly, like moisture entering the dying tree trunk...so did the world and inertia creep into Siddarthas soul; it slowly filled his soul, made it heavy, made it tired, sent it to sleep. But on the other hand his senses became more awakened, they learned a great deal, experienced a great deal" (61). In this quote it allows the reader to understand the important a of Siddarthas right of passage. His path to enlightenment isn't getting there but actual the journey and the lessons he goes through. It allows him to truly understand the world and his place in it.
For this post I will be elaborating on the metaphor of children that is so commonly mentioned in the book. Although this is a fairly simple concept, I feel as if this is a very important part of the book. In Siddhartha, the metaphor of children is used as a juxtaposition to those who are enlightened. Much like children, these individuals are careless in their ways and ignorant to the true nature of life. This is the complete opposite of those who are enlightened, who are knowledgeable about the comings and goings of life. This idea is recurring throughout the novel. One enormous example is within the title of the chapter, "Among the Child People". These people referred to throughout the chapter, are so entranced in their own ways, entrenched in their own lives and the sinfulness that they live in, that they are oblivious to the important parts of life in which Siddhartha attempts to preach. This idea is again used throughout the chapter, for example as Hesse states,"He envied them [for]... like children, the sense of importance with which they lived their lives" (Hesse 59 in my book). These individuals are petty in their actions, as they are constantly indulged in solely their lives. Unlike, those who are enlightened, or on the path to enlightenment, these individuals have a hood of sin cast over the top of them, blocking any sight to the path to enlightenment The children are also a symbol in the theme that Hesse attempts to present throughout the novel. The children are symbolic of the average person in American society. These people are unaware of the truly significant parts of life, and therefore fall short as a whole. The children are simply another tool used by Hesse to present the theme, that by ridding oneself of the sins of life, the path to success and enlightenment is made clear. Does anyone have any other variations in their interpretation of the metaphor and symbol of children used in Siddhartha?
The quote that stood out to me the most throughout the book was on page 94 where Hermann Hesse writes,"Is this what you mean: that the river is everywhere at once, at its source and at its mouth, at the waterfall, at the ferry ... everywhere at once, and only the present exists for it, and not the shadow of the future?". As we talked about multiple times in class, the river was a very important part in Siddhartha and his enlightenment. The river was the ultimate teacher and the last step to his happiness. From this quote I began to look at the river in a different way. I believed that Siddhartha found his happiness through the river because of three major qualities that no other teacher had: the ability to always be there whenever Siddhartha desired it, the ability to never die, and the fact that its always changing meaning that you can always learn from it. From my first point, all of his past teachers did have time for others yes, but were they always there for each individual 24/7? No, they were not, and in comparison the river is there at all times which gives Siddhartha the advantage of being able to learn from it at a higher and more emotional level than to just see a teacher one on one once a day if lucky. Secondly, with Siddhartha's teachers, being that they were human beings, they will die at some point or another. If they die then the teachings will no longer be the same as what they were, instead they will be a version that is based off of another persons views. Granted that they will be similar, but never the exact same. Lastly, as I stated earlier, the river is always changing, giving you different things to learn about each time. With this you can learn so much more than just learning from a pre written way of life that will always stay the same no matter what. To conclude my thinking, I truly believe that Siddhartha found the river to be his final teacher because it was capable of non-human characteristics that gave him a more excellerated path to finding enlightenment.
I agree completely. I would also like to touch on how the river represents change throughout the book. Whenever Siddhartha is about to enter a new stage of learning he come in contact with the river. He meets the river and Vasudeva for the first time on page 48 just after Siddhartha and Govinda have parted ways and just before he begins learning from Kamala and Kamaswami. Siddhartha reunites with the river on page 88 after he leaves his life with Kamala and the child people. He is also by the river when he reaches enlightenment on page 134. Siddhartha's life is much like how Cassie described the river: always in a state of change. To clearly state this Hermann Hesse uses the symbolism of the river to express to the reader that Siddhartha is about to experience great change.
One of the most interesting passages in Siddhartha, in my opinion, was the metaphorical passage on the stone in “Govinda” (Hesse 145). After Belinda’s IOP, I became more aware of the cycle of Samsara throughout the novel. This passage clearly illustrates this cycle as the stone, which represents one’s soul, can transform into soil or “ become plant, animal, or man” (Hesse 145). This demonstrates the idea that like in Samsara, something as simple and plain as a stone can transform into something important or at least more significant than its previous form. This sets a tone of hopefulness with the soft diction of the assonance of the “a” sound. Furthermore, this illustrates an idea for humanity that anyone can improve himself or herself because of Hesse’s idea that the stone, which is really one’s soul, can be something other than a lifeless stone and become something living, such as a plant, animal, or man. Additionally, Hesse conveys the thought that everything on earth has worth by writing, “I see value and meaning in each one of its fine markings and cavities, in the yellow, in the gray, in the hardness and the sound of it when I knock it, in the dryness or dampness of its surface” (Hesse 145). The juxtaposition of the positive diction of the words value, meaning, and fine and the negative diction of cavities, gray, hardness, and dampness among others, creates a thoughtful tone due the contrast. This also communicates Hesse’s view that there is beauty in everything on earth, it may not be on the surface, but it exists and will be seen by someone. In addition to illustrating ideas of Samsara, this passage also characterizes Siddhartha. In the beginning of the novel, Siddhartha often referred to himself in third person, exhibiting a disassociation from himself and uncertainty in his identity. Conversely, in this passage, there is anaphora with the word “I.” It is used to start many sentences in addition to being used within sentences. In the context of him explaining this abstract concept to Govinda, it creates a tone of self-confidence and certainty in ones identity. In consideration with the metaphor of the stone representing Samsara and the transformation of ones soul, Hesse displays the idea that if one becomes sure of themself, he or she can achieve his or her goals. I thought this was one of the most thought provoking and interesting passages in Siddhartha.
Note: I have an alternate copy so the page numbers may be different
The passage that impacted me the most was when Vasudeva spoke to Siddhartha after Siddhartha had asked Vasudeva if Vasudeva would accept him to be his apprentice. Vasudeva tells Siddhartha, "...you have already learned from the river that it is good to aim low..." (pg. 82). Growing in a society that values goals and dreams made this quote taboo yet somewhat inspiring. It's rare for a person to be giving advice to not reach for their goals. Siddhartha may have felt the same way as most people of the American society may have felt: confused, shocked, or maybe even betrayed. Vasudeva was not very close with Siddhartha before this instance so the feeling of betrayal may be an over exaggeration, but This made me feel confused but the inspiration it made me feel made it all the more confusing. Aiming low to reach a high standard makes it sound ineffective or just crazy, but to me, it means that you don't have to aim high to get high. you can aim low to get high. By this, i mean, you don't have to be a billionaire to be happy, but you can be a middle class man with a family and still be happy.
Flloyd brings up a interesting piece of textual evidence from page 82, especially after Jenny's IOP today. Throughout the novel Siddhartha constantly breaks the caste system and the status quo. He does this by leaving his life as a Brahmin to become a Samana. Aiming low to achieve a high goal is a driving factor as to why the book became so popular during the 1960's. During this time period many young people left their ordinary lives to become "Hippies" which can be compared to the Samanas of Siddhartha's world. The Hippies of the 1960's left their families to reach enlightenment much like Siddhartha. By aiming low and rejecting the caste system Siddhartha managed to reach enlightment. The Hippies tried to achieve the same fate by refusing their place in society and the cultural revolution of the 60's.
From the IOP, a good point was brought to my attention. The symbolic use of birds throughout Siddartha life and journey to enlightenment. I feel like the use of birds were used because the idea of freedom and growth Siddartha faced. For instance the most recalled moment Hesses uses a bird is, the songbird during Siddarthas interaction with the child people. The songbird is used because it is known to be the inner voice, which vowed to listen as he explores the sensual side of himself. This is useful in the sense that it compares Siddartha as the samana and Siddartha as the business man who is idolizes material goods. For instance, "What could I say to you that would be of value, except that perhaps you seek too much, that as a result of your seeking you cannot find" (61). This is an important quote because it shows how Siddartha is understand how consuming the wrong things isn't sucess and won't allow him to come closer to enlightenment but instead fall behind his goals.
I was rereading the final chapter, Govinda, when part of a conversation between Siddhartha and Govinda stuck out to me. Govinda had asked Siddhartha for any insights that he is willing to share. The only thing Siddhartha could tell him is that "The opposite of every truth is just as true! You see: A truth can be uttered and clad in words only if it is one-sided. One-sided is everything that can be thought with thoughts and said in words-everything one sided, everything half, everything void of wholeness, of roundness, of oneness"(124). At first the idea that the opposite of every truth is just as true seems absurd. Essentially, Siddhartha is saying that there is a second side to everything. A generalized example of this is the idea of good and bad. No one would know what good is without the bad and vice versa. In order to reach this conclusion, Siddhartha had to experience both sides. Siddhartha was exposed to the 'bad' in the world during his days of lust and gambling. This is another example of why Siddhartha had to reach his worst in order to find enlightenment.
Another moment that made me wonder was when Siddhartha left Govinda. He left Govinda as Govinda became a disciple of the Exalted One or the Buddha. His parting words were "Tomorrow, Govinda, I will leave you," (pg 25). Siddhartha seems to blandly state this sentence in the end, as if he wanted to leave his friend. They have been through so much together, yet Siddhartha discards of him, making Govinda seem like a burden to Siddhartha. This makes me feel that friendships are not important, but they are. Especially in the American society. Friendships are cherished by us so reading that makes it hard to believe that Siddhartha is so willing to leave his past. Which leads me to wonder, what is friendship?
I agree with you Flloyd, and I believe Hesse is attempting to critique American society in this passage. Like as stated in Corvyn's IOP, Hesse is really trying to present the idea that one must learn from their inner self, not from others or teachers. Hesse is attempting to comment on the extremely social nature of America as a whole. Today Americans are in desperate need to communicate with each other, and are almost dependent on others constantly in our everyday lives. Gone are the days where one is independent in what they are doing, and how they are living. Americans are unable to live and strive without the assistance of many others in their life. These "friendships" that we have in our lives, are only holding us back from reaching our true potential or "enlightenment". Siddhartha realized this throughout the book, as he left his father and the Brahmins, then the samanas, then Gotama, then Kamala and Kamaswami. Siddhartha realized that he must work within himself, without the help of teachers or others in order to find enlightenment. Furthermore, Hesse is really attempting to illuminate the idea that friendships and relationships, things that many Americans believe are crucial, are actually hindrances in one's life, and the reader must rid oneself of them to truly be successful in their life.
This passage, where Siddhartha leaves Govinda, also stood out to me a lot for same reasons. It led me to a similar question: What does friendship mean to Siddhartha? I think that Siddhartha didn't actually want to leave Govinda; rather, he was trying to push Govinda to follow his own path, even if that meant sacrificing their close relationship. After telling Govinda that he is leaving him, Siddhartha says "Now you have become a man and are choosing your own path," and he says this "in a voice without mockery," (29). This exists in contrast to the conversations Siddhartha and Govinda share in the previous chapter where Siddhartha speaks "in a voice containing as much sadness as mockery," (18). When I first read that Siddhartha was planning on leaving his best friend, I presumed it was a step backwards in their friendship, however I now see that it was actually a step forward since Siddhartha now has a new found respect for Govinda. Siddhartha is actually the best friend anyone could ask for in the sense that he sacrificed his friendship with Govinda in order to encourage Govinda down his own path, instead of enabling him to remain as a follower of others. This is a major sacrifice that not even Govinda was willing to make at first, but Siddhartha knew what was best for his friend. Also, if you think about it, their friendship was not sacrificed at all because the two times they are reunited, they still interact as if they are still the best of friends. I think the act of Siddhartha leaving Govinda to follow his own path represents the idea that enlightenment must come from within. While other people may help you along the way, like Siddhartha did for Govinda, enlightenment must ultimately be achieved on one's own.
Though I had always saw Siddhartha as a very driven person, through out the book, I seemed to find my self constantly questioning the frivolous way that Siddhartha seems to leave behind things. One of the questions that I found myself asking a lot, was if Siddhartha was truly aware of his flaws, or indecisiveness. A passage that stood out to me was, "If you toss a stone into water, it takes the swiftest way to the bottom. And Siddhartha is like that when he has a goal, makes a resolve. Siddhartha does nothing, he waits, he thinks, he fasts, but he passes through the things of the world like the stone through the water, never acting, never stirring" (56). I found this passage very contradicting to Siddhartha's character. In attempts to reach enlightenment, Siddhartha leaves to take many new paths. I understand that he is trying to find the, "swiftest way to the bottom", but what confuses me is the part of, "never stirring". Siddhartha tends to change his mind so often, that it is difficult to see a path at all. This irony of the character saying this, makes me wonder whether Siddhartha sees his flaws at all?
I agree with your statement that this sentence contradicts with the way that Siddhartha appears in the story. In the story, Hesse describes Siddhartha as a person who is always changing his mind, moving through his different "lives". I think that Siddhartha does not see his flaws because if he did then it would cause me to wonder why he makes the decisions that he makes. If he saw his flaws then I think that he would have chosen one of his lives and tried to find enlightenment through only that life.
I think Siddhartha is so set on reaching enlightenment that making time for his flaws are almost impossible not because he wants to refuse them but its only because he has no time and part of reaching enlightenment means that you must not have any flaws because once you reach enlightenment, in theory, you are perfect right? But that's just my opinion I could be completely wrong.
A passage that I thought was interesting was the passage where Siddhartha is describing his soul as being a potter's wheel. This part is on page 68 and says, "The potter's wheel, once set in motion, keeps spinning and spinning, and only gradually slackens and comes to a halt; and likewise, in Siddhartha's soul, the wheel of asceticism, the wheel of thinking, the wheel of discrimination had kept turning and turning, was still turning, but was now sluggish and hesitant and on the verge of halting." I thought that this was interesting because I would not have made the connection of his soul to a potter's wheel and this was a sad way to look at his soul. This is because he is not giving his soul a sense of happiness but more a sense of laziness and sadness. He is not looking at his soul in a good way, it is more of a depressing way to look at himself. This quote can also be connected to one of the Seven Deadly Sins. The sin that this would be connected to would be laziness. This is because the passage is saying that the wheel is slowly stopping in a sluggish way, which is a word that is connected to being lazy.
A passage I found really interesting was in chapter 12 on the last few pages of the book (130-131 in my book). After Govinda is kissed on the forehead by Siddhartha, who has now reached enlightenment, Govinda sees images of many faces. One image from this passage that I found particularly interesting was that Govinda "saw the face of a newborn child, red and wrinkled". I find it strange that Govinda saw a child in Siddhartha, who had reached enlightenment, even though children were what Siddhartha used to describe the things furthest from enlightenment. I think Hesse may have been making a point about how the oblivious nature of children may not necessarily be a bad thing. Throughout the book, Siddhartha seems to think that because children lack experience, they are oblivious to the world, which would seemingly make them more shrouded by Maya, the illusion of individuality and self importance, and would make it impossible for them to reach enlightenment. However, because of this inexperience, they are more innocent. Children have not seen or experienced as many things, their lives are very simple and so they are very innocent. While this does make them more oblivious, it also means they have not garnered any negative karma, so they still have potential to be something great, or even to reach enlightenment. My question is, why do YOU guys think Hesse would refer to Siddhartha as a child after reaching enlightenment, even though the word was used to describe the opposite throughout the book?
Hesse may have referred to Siddhartha as "childlike" in the final chapters because Siddhartha's journey, as a whole, gradually eliminates all of the layers of cynicism and superiority that he possessed even as a young man, ultimately leaving him with a child's curiosity, empathy, and openness. Buddhist teachings state that there are three stages of life, which can be described as that of the student, the family man, and the renunciate/monk. Interestingly enough, Siddhartha experiences these three lifestyles in reverse order; he begins his adult life as an ascetic, then rejoins society (becoming one of the "Kamaswami people"), and eventually retreats from the world to become a student of Vasudeva and the river. After speaking with Govinda in "By the River," Siddhartha reveals that he is aware of his path's uniqueness, observing that "through many deviations [he] changed from a man into a child...from a thinker into an ordinary person" (Hesse 78). Despite his prior disdain for "ordinary" people, Siddhartha begins to understand the value of his experiences and to realize that other people struggle with similar problems. Later, after his son's difficult departure, Siddhartha finally comes to terms with the fact that he, too, is affected by human emotions, suggesting that his sense of superiority was "the childish self-flattery of thinkers, who were perhaps only thinking children" (106). Ultimately, the description of Siddhartha as a child reveals that Siddhartha no longer considers himself above the rest of the population; he recognizes himself as a child among children, and he is at peace with that position.
Another passage I found really interesting was in the beginning of the chapter "The Ferryman" (pages 90-91), when Siddhartha meets Vasudeva for a second time, and asks to become his assistant. One piece of this passage that struck me as really important was when Siddhartha "remembered that once, on that last day of his samana period, love for this man had stirred in his heart". The reason I find this piece so important is because Siddhartha seems to only feel this almost automatic love one other time, and it is when he first meets Gautama. I think the reason Hesse created this similarity was to foreshadow that Vasudeva would eventually bring Siddhartha to enlightenment. By creating the similarity between Gautama and Vasudeva in which Siddhartha (a somewhat egotistical person) feels love for the two after only briefly meeting them, Hesse stages Vasudeva as not only a great teacher similar to Gautama, but also as someone who has reached enlightenment himself, which leads the reader to believe that he will be the final teacher for Siddhartha along his path. This is also reminiscent of how Siddhartha is described in the beginning of the story, and how many village people and even Siddhartha's own family often experience a feeling of love just from seeing him walk by. I think that Hesse uses this sort of non-lustful love at first site to symbolize characters that have or will become enlightened.
In the novel Siddhartha, Hesse cleverly uses symbolism in names to represent the obstacles that Siddhartha must overcome throughout his journey. While researching for my IOP, I learned about the four goals of Hinduism, two of which are called Kama and Artha. The first goal, Kama, represents the pursuit of physical desire, or more namely, the pursuit of love. For Siddhartha, love is a sensitive topic and a difficult concept for him to overcome throughout the novel. His struggle shows towards the end of the chapter, Among the Child People, in which he says to Kamala, "Perhaps people like us cannot love. The child people can; that is their secret," (65). Siddhartha believes that love is only for the child people, or the simple-minded. These people are simple-minded in the sense that they are stuck their whole lives in pursuit of love, or the goal Kama. Because they are stuck trying to attain Kama, they are unable to pursue the other goals of life. Kamala's name stems from the word Kama because she represents this sort of simple-mindedness in Siddhartha's life. Siddhartha spends countless years in pursuit of her love and never does he actually tame it. During those many years that he spends in pursuit of her love, or in pursuit of Kama, he is unable to focus on his other goals, which shows in the lack of enlightenment he receives throughout his life among the child people. The second goal, artha, is what the name Siddhartha stems from, however this name refers not to the main character Siddhartha, but Siddhartha the son. Essentially, artha is the pursuit of wealth and power, or in short, success. Ironically, it isn't until after Siddhartha leaves his life as a wealthy landowner and settles in a modest life by the river that he encounters the goal of wealth. At first, Siddhartha "had felt rich and happy when the boy had come to him," (103) but he soon realizes that "the eleven-year-old was a pampered boy, brought up in the habits of wealth," (103) and that his son is only a painful reminder of his past. It doesn't take long for Siddhartha to understand that the richness he initially felt when meeting his son is not the kind of richness that brings contentment to his life. Because adult Siddhartha's goals do not lie in the pursuit of wealth, he must learn to overcome artha, even if it involves letting his son go, whose name and upbringing represent artha itself. I thought that Hesse's use of symbolism in names was very clever and I never would've noticed this particular symbolism had I not researched the four goals of Hinduism.
I wanted to talk a bit more about what I found to be the most puzzling passage in the novel, where a woman tries to seduce Siddhartha next to a stream. Siddhartha almost has sex with the woman after she puts her foot on his, even going so far as to " [bend] down over the woman and [kiss] the brown tip of her breast with his lips" (41). He decides not to after he stops seeing her as a woman and begins seeing "the moist gaze of a rutting female animal" (41). This passage made little sense to me at first, but after thinking about it, it is about Siddhartha’s quest for love in the ensuing chapters. This occurs directly before Siddhartha meets Kamala, who he begins a long sexual relationship with. What Siddhartha is rejecting in his encounter with the woman is not sex itself, but sex that is done without an emotional connection between the participants. Siddhartha begins his relationship with Kamala not just for sex, although sex is certainly one component of the relationship, but also for the emotional aspect of sex, the part that turns procreation into love making. This passage has become one of my favorites in the book because it appears like such a non sequitur at first, but actually foreshadows one of the most important parts of Siddhartha’s journey towards enlightenment. It foreshadows the relationship with Kamala by reflecting Siddhartha’s desire for sex but also his rejection of recreational sex, two conditions which lead to his pursuit of Kamala. This subtle foreshadowing is what makes the passage so enjoyable for the reader and what has made it one of my favorites in the book.
One passage that stood out to me while I revisiting parts of the book was the first paragraph of the fourth chapter, Awakening. It begins right as Siddhartha leaves the grove after speaking with Buddha, "When he left the grove, where the Buddha, the Perfect One, remained, where Govinda remained, Siddhartha felt his previous life too was remaining behind in this grove and separating from him" (35). I found it not only interesting how Siddhartha's character was revealed here in the way he reacts to the insight Buddha gave him. At first I found it a bit hard to believe one single individual person could have such an impact with just a small discussion, even if it was some person as important or influential as the Buddha himself, but I then realized that's the exactly the point. Siddhartha isn't meant to be easily recognized with, he takes a path not many could take and goes on a journey with determination some can't even fathom, and this is just another example of who Siddhartha truly is. He believes he is going through a transformation, leaving his previous life in the grove and separating from it. At the same time, this shows how naive Siddhartha is, thinking he can just leave behind his previous life instead of keeping it as a part of himself and learning from it, a lesson he learns later in the book when he becomes a merchant and is said to have completely disattached from the ways of the semanas. Overall I just found this passage interesting because I felt at first glance, a reader may get some insight into Siddhartha, but after revisiting the book I found connections throughout the book, such as the one here compared to his life as a merchant, which is also representative of how Siddhartha is always learning and the cyclical nature of the book, how everything comes together and connects.
In Siddhartha we have a narrator say “So she thoroughly taught him that one cannot take pleasure without giving pleasure, and that every gesture, every caress, every touch, every glance, every last bit of the body has its secret, which brings happiness to the person who knows how to wake it. She taught him that after a celebration of love the lovers should not part without admiring each other, without being conquered or having conquered, so that neither is bleak or glutted or has the bad feeling of being used or misused.” Do you guys think that Hesse puts this in the book with no deeper meaning? I feel like this is sort of breaking Siddhartha out of his previous thinking of everything he has been through only because this has been so different from all the different stages. The other stages have been somewhat similar but this is brand new for him. What do you guys think this passage meant?
This is a very controversial quote and the only reason I am using this as one of my post is because I want you guys too look at the beginning of the quote and tell me whaqt stands out to you. “Govinda was standing in front of him, dressed in the yellow robe of an ascetic. Sad was how Govinda looked like, sadly he asked: Why have you forsaken me? At this, he embraced Govinda, wrapped his arms around him, and as he was pulling him close to his chest and kissed him, it was not Govinda any more, but a woman, and a full breast popped out of the woman's dress, at which Siddhartha lay and drank, sweetly and strongly tasted the milk from this breast.” When Govinda says "Why have you forsaken me?" If you really think about this it is sad how much Govinda relied on Siddhartha to lead him down the right path. But I think the main reason Siddhartha ends up "embracing" him is because Siddhartha empathizes for him knowing that he has, in a way, forsaken himself to. Do you guys agree? Just trying to get opinions. :)
From one of the presentations in class about karma I had a question keep coming back to my mind. If Siddhartha were to be reborn, what caste would he be born into? In my opinion, Siddhartha's arrogance would have caused him to be reborn into a lower caste, not an untouchable however because he did not harm anyone. On page 128, Hesse writes how Siddhartha's way in his mind was the only way to enlightenment. This is a very self-centered mindset. "For I cannot deny that my words about love contradict, seem to contradict, Gautama's words. That it precisely why I so greatly distrust words, for I know that this contradiction is an illusion." Siddhartha is essentially saying that he does not care for the almighty Buddha's teachings and that his way of thinking is not correct for the path to enlightenment. I thought that this was interesting and important for everyone to know that Siddhartha never lost his arrogance throughout the novel.
After doing my IOP and listening to other people’s IOPs, I thought more about how the book would have turned out if Siddhartha had pursued wealth and luxury as opposed to enlightenment. At first I thought about what it would be like if he had stayed with Kamala, but I quickly realized that Siddhartha would never have met Kamala had he been content with what society told him to aspire to. The book makes it clear that the impetus for his journey was his discontent with the culture he was born into, saying “Govinda knew Siddhartha would never become an ordinary Brahmin, a lazy purveyor of rituals, a greedy dealer in charms, a vain mouther of phrases, a base and devious priest, nor would he become a mindless good sheep in the common herd” (4). The final clause about “mindless good sheep” is the most explicit condemnation of the society around Siddhartha, and calling people who follow the status quo “sheep” seems to be relatively common—a common refrain among libertarians is that those who cede their civil liberties to the government are “sheeple”. This passage effectively sets up the entire book, because without it, Siddhartha is merely an exceptional man who will use his talents in the way that the society around him tells him to. The book makes it clear that doing so is not preferable to finding fulfillment on one’s own terms as Siddhartha does, and in doing so allows the story of Siddhartha’s quest for enlightenment to be told. Effectively, this book could not exist without Siddhartha finding his own path towards success, because without that there is no story to be told.
Another passage that I found interesting was on page 92 when Siddhartha is consulting Vasudeva about becoming a better listener. " And I also thank you, Vasudeva, for listening to me so well! Rare are the people who know how to listen, and I have never met anyone who knew it so well as you. This too I will learn from you." This is important to the development of his character because he finally found someone to learn from in his life. Before this Siddhartha was reluctant to learn from others and his pride made him leave his previous teachers. But why did Hesse specifically choose Vasudeva as the teacher right for Siddhartha? My opinion is that because Vasudeva did not want to teach, Siddhartha saw this as another challenge to beat. I don't think that he completely gave up his pride to listen to the river, just a means to an end which was reaching enlightenment.
During my preparation for the fishbowl, when I had to decide which passages from Siddhartha had the greatest impact on me, I realized that most of those passages were from the chapter “Samsara.” This part of Siddhartha’s quest affected me most because Siddhartha’s descent into the excess and despair of the material world was the first mental shift (or “reincarnation”) not conscious decision, but through his inaction and lack of awareness. The idea that even Siddhartha, with all of his discipline and determined spirit, could succumb so easily to meaningless distraction, is quietly shocking and disturbing. Throughout this chapter, Hesse uses Siddhartha's unexpected change in values to force the reader to question his or her own susceptibility to social pressures and materialism, which I found to be an unusual and deeply personal effect. Hesse’s subtle use of lyrical structure in this chapter was especially interesting because it creates an entirely different mood from the serenity of the preceding chapters; the overall style, including the characteristic types of devices used, does not change, and the recurrence of similar sentence structures reinforces the unnerving subtlety of Siddhartha's gradual decline. For example, when Hesse compares Siddhartha's growing discontent to a dress that “grows old with time, loses its bright color, becomes stained and creased, the hems frayed, and here and there weak and threadbare places” (Hesse 63), he is employing parallel structure in a slightly different manner than previously, making the repetition just a bit faster and more irregular. The anaphora in “Samsara” is also faster and more chaotic in tone, revealing the obsessive quality of Siddhartha's mind, which once coveted knowledge and now covets wealth and sensual pleasures. Hesse explains (with strong emphasis and focus) that Siddhartha “envied [the child people]; the more he became like them, the more he envied them. He envied them the one thing that he lacked and that they had” (62). Once again, the sentence structure shows the altered inner workings of Siddhartha's mind, reminding the reader that all is not well. This technique in particular drew my attention because it changes the perception of Siddhartha and his mindset very smoothly and subtly, without the reader's knowledge. The small structural alterations, as a whole, both foreshadow Siddhartha's eventual loss of stability and play on the reader's emotional awareness. Also, even though Siddhartha probably reached his moral low point during this part of his journey, I found that “Samsara” caused me to experience more compassion toward him. Do you think that Siddhartha's show of weakness in the face of temptation humanizes him? Or does it merely show another side of his irredeemably selfish soul? I don't know. I think this chapter's tension is mostly derived from that universal literary question, “Can this person be saved?” -- a situation that will always attract my attention, no matter how morally questionable the character. Is Siddhartha relatable enough at this point for the reader to care about his salvation? That's a different debate entirely.
Upon reading the two different translations, the reader is struck initially by how they seem nearly identical, but with closer analysis, the subtleties can be teased out and analyzed. Both translations use anaphora and repetition extensively. This strikes me as being almost indicative of meditation or chanting in which a rhythm is established to help soothe and focus the thoughts of the one chanting. This seems fitting since this a book that will center on the life of a young man who is the son of a holy man in the Buddhist religion. In the first passage, it is written that, "In the shade of the house, in the sunshine of the riverbank. . . , in the shade of the Sal-wood forest, in the shade of the fig tree is where Siddhartha grew up. . .". This very long sentence, if being read out loud, would require the reader to control his/her breath in order for the melodic nature to be heard; this too is similar to meditation which is mentioned later in the paragraph. It is almost as the though the author/translator wants us to see that everything, nature, ritual, family life, and spiritual life in Siddhartha's world, has a set pace and rhythm. What also strikes me in this passage is how intertwined nature imagery is with the religious/spiritual diction as if to emphasize the religion's attitude toward cycles which can be found extensively in nature. The light and dark imagery present in the beginning with the shade and sun references leads to the "glow of the clear-thinking spirit" at then end reminding the reader that the goal of Buddhists is to find enlightenment and to become one with the universe. The first passage begins with one sentence (written partially above) that is passive. After that, the structure turns active, with the sun and shade as the subjects of the sentences. The last three sentence feature Siddhartha as the subject of the sentences which also contain active voice. With the exception of the initial passive sentence, the second passage follows this pattern as well. When looking at this pattern in the first passage, I thought this sentence structure to be purposeful. In a way it reflects how children live their lives having their lives controlled by others and having thing happen TO them. Upon reaching adulthood, people are finally able to take charge of their lives, actions and choices. This sets up the reader for Siddhartha's rebellion and stubbornness toward his father which occurs later in the chapter.
ReplyDeleteSiddhartha's statement "What I have so far learned from the Samanas, I could have learned more quickly and easily in every inn in a prostitute's quarter, amongst the carriers and dice players", is a striking example of foreshadowing in Siddhartha. Ironically, in taking steps away from such worldly pleasures, Siddhartha is led directly down that path. The effect on the story is that we see the significance of worldly pleasures. In his statement, he scorns the teaching of the Samanas and worldly pleasures at the same time, but later we see that Siddhartha needed to experience such pleasures and enjoy them to find out that they were worthless. He experiences pleasure with a "prostitute", as he "pays" Kamala a poem in return for a kiss, and experiences having enough money to engage in wasteful games of dice. This shows us Siddhartha's characterization during the story. In the beginning, Siddhartha thinks worldly pleasures are a waste of time. In the middle, Siddhartha engages in them fully, and in the end, he again thinks they are a waste of time. Another example is when Siddhartha says he has "no desire to walk on water", which is ironic because he ends up as a ferryman. He steps away from teachings only to end up learning from the river. This example of foreshadowing shows us how Siddhartha changes from trying to find himself to learning from the river.
ReplyDeleteIn addition to the irony, I also found that gambling symbolized Siddhartha's successes and failures in achieving enlightenment. When a person gambles, there's always a risk that he/she will win money or lose money, yet that person always runs the risk. Siddhartha gambled not only for money, but also for his own spiritual growth. His actions would either bring him further in his quest, or detract him from it. When Siddhartha leaves his father and never comes back, he runs the risk of losing all the wisdom and teachings that he gained by being the son of a Brahmin. This is similar to placing initial bets. Siddhartha joined the Samanas, and while losing some dignity and leaving them due to their almost dehumanizing lifestyles, he gained the power of spellbinding, which signifies a growth in his spirituality and enlightenment. This is similar to receiving a two-pair in terms of cards, and receiving a slight profit after betting a large amount. Siddhartha also rejects following Gautama, stating, "...this unity and consistency of all things is nevertheless interrupted in one place:...your Teaching about the overcoming of the world, about deliverance" (P. 31). If this were gambling, this would be similar to Siddhartha winning a large amount of money, but choosing not to quit and continuing to play. Others, such as Govinda, would quit after receiving such a large portion of money - Gautama's teachings, but Siddhartha chose to continue in pursuit of better treasures. Siddhartha pursuing a material life with Kamala is analagous to betting all but one coin, and losing it all, since Siddhartha took many steps backwards in his quest for achieving enlightenment by choosing that lifestyle. His blindness in not recognizing "how closely lust is related to death" (P. 72) until his dream about Kamala strangling him is similar to getting drunk after drinking too much alcohol during a gambling session, making him unaware of what little funds he had left. After Siddhartha feels guilt and discontentment with the life he chose, he decides to run away from Kamala and his future child, realizing that he only has "one coin left". His situation of despair is demonstrated by his statement, "If only lightning could come and kill him! If only a tiger could come and devour him!...Was this cycle not exhausted and completed for him?" (P. 77). At this point, Siddhartha gives up everything to find the ferryman, who allowed him to see that having various experiences and going through all sorts of changes, like the river, allowed him to experience true enlightenment through wisdom. If Siddhartha were gambling money in this scenario, this would be similar to betting all-in for the last coin, receiving the best hand, and winning millions of coins; far more than he would have gotten if he quit tasting new experiences by following Gautama. Govinda, on the other hand, quit after he followed Gautama. His discontent is expressed by the statement, "For though Govinda had lived all his life according to the Rule and was also revered by the young monks for his age and his modesty, the disquiet and seeking were not snuffed in his heart" (P. 121). If Siddhartha quit the "gambling session", he would have become like Govinda, failing to receive the best amount of enlightenment, or "money", possible. Hesse implements gambling as a symbol because, as gambling involves a lot of risk yet may reap a lot of reward, finding enlightenment required stepping outside one's boundaries and experiencing various lifestyles that may be harmful, yet bring wisdom to the individual. He greatly emphasizes the risks that an individual needs to take to achieve enlightenment by comparing them to the risks of gambling.
DeleteI understand what you are saying about the irony but do you really believe it was ironic or maybe was it just part of the Karma we have learned about in some of the IOP's. I feel as if it was not as ironic but on purpose by Hesse this was a symbol and how the author worked that little piece in, what do you think? Just food for thought.
DeleteWilliam,
ReplyDeleteThanks for being our first poster! Good job! You have lots of good insights--can you also put page numbers in the future? I like the point about his lack of desire to walk on water and the irony of that statement.
Ms. Ballard
Unfortunately, I have a different translation from everyone else, so page number aren't much help :(
ReplyDelete*numbers
DeleteOn page 28 in the book, the author describes the first time Siddhartha's first sight of the Illustrious Buddha. He writes, "...and it seemed to him that in every joint of his hand there was knowledge; they spoke, breathed, radiated truth". I thought this was such a great example of personification. It does make me wonder, though, how Siddhartha could deduce all of this from just one glance, without having even talked to the Buddha yet. What struck Siddhartha as so striking straight from the beginning? I also find this quote interesting because Siddhartha describes him as radiating knowledge yet if this was true why did Siddhartha choose not to follow him? Siddhartha claims to be seeking knowledge and more meaning to the world, yet when he comes across this man who seemed to have knowledge in every bone of his body he once again decides these teachings are not enough for him. It makes me wonder if Siddhartha himself even truly knows what he is searching for.
ReplyDeleteI also thought this passage was interesting. At first sight Siddhartha claims to have never loved anyone more. "Never had Siddhartha venerated a human being so deeply, never had he loved a human being so deeply as this one"(27). Not only is it odd to have such a strong feeling for someone at first sight, it completely contradicts Siddhartha's dialogue with the Buddha later on in the chapter. I agree with you on the idea that these contradictions reflect internal conflict. It seems as though Siddhartha is having trouble finding the right teacher because he thinks he knows better.
DeleteSiddhartha does feel like he knows what he is looking for. He communicates that enlightenment is not something he feels can be taught. In the end, however, he is wrong, because he has learned enlightenment from the river, and not from himself. Siddhartha feels as if the one most important secret is something that cannot be taught. He clearly knows what he is looking for. What he does not know is how to find it. He goes on to waste a long period of his life doing the things he used to hate and not even looking for enlightenment. Suddenly, his quest for knowledge troubles him and he finds himself learning from a river. Siddhartha could not learn from a human teacher. I feel this communicates that Siddhartha is a loner who can only find meaning in life by listening to a river. He ends up learning from an emotionless mass of water what he refused to learn from Gotama. He has forsaken his family and his village, yet he has somehow found peace. Can he be considered successful?
DeleteThroughout the chapter, Samsara, the motif of the songbird is present to illustrate the wants and needs of Siddhartha. On page 64, Siddhartha undergoes a vivid dream. In this dream, Siddhartha encounters Kamala's songbird, dead in its cage. Following this, Siddhartha picks up the bird and hurls it out the window to the street below. This dream is symbolic of the life that Siddhartha has. Much like the songbird, Siddhartha is deprived of the life that he wishes to have. Again like the songbird who solely wishes for freedom from his wretched cage, Siddhartha strongly desires freedom from the "cages" of suffering and tragedy that surround him throughout his life. This dream presaged the notion that if Siddhartha continued on the path of sin that he led, he too would end up like the bird. Siddhartha's desire to achieve enlightenment would be lost forever, much like the bird, incapable of rebirth. By abandoning his life of riches and glory, Siddhartha believed that he could once again claim the life that he had, and continue on his quest to achieve Nirvana. Additionally, on page 67, Kamala takes her songbird out of its cage and lets it fly away. This event signifies the awakening that Siddhartha had undergone. The bird was free and was given a new life similar to Siddhartha. Siddhartha transformed from a greedy sinner, to new man of life and serenity. Siddhartha was much like a block of clay, waiting to be molded by the future events that were to transpire. This event is also foreshadowing to the new life that Siddhartha is to experience. The songbird's only wish was the flee from his confining prison, and find freedom, in which he achieved. Similarly, Siddhartha's only goal was to find enlightenment. Like the songbird, Siddhartha is to achieve his paramount goal as well in the future.The motif of the songbird is used throughout the chapter, as a symbol of the wants and needs of Siddhartha, as well as foreshadowing the fate of Siddhartha in the future.
ReplyDeleteI agree that the motif of the songbird represents the wants and needs of Siddhartha. I also think that it symbolizes how if Siddhartha's spirit is caged up for too long, it will die. As the reader, I connected with page 67, when Kamala released the songbird. It reminded me of how people try to dispose of items that remind them of past lovers. However, I was surprised when Kamala made no effort to chase Siddhartha. This was especially surprising because she knew that she was pregnant shortly after this event.
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DeleteI agree with Brooke. I had not thought of the idea of people disposing of items of past lovers. I think that's a very interesting way to connect to the symbol. I also wonder if at the time when Siddhartha left if Kamala was aware that she was pregnant. It almost seems as if in the end that was her goal, to have his child. Maybe having the child to her was a reminder of Siddhartha as if he were still with her. This could be why she let him go. She knew he would not be happy until he reached his ultimate goal of enlightenment. It is almost like the saying "if you truly love something, set it free."
DeleteI loved the motif throughout the whole chapter and felt like it made it easier to understand Siddhartha and his emotions. However I found it interesting that he threw away the bird so quickly and only felt guilt after he had thrown the bird into the streets. This was very similar to how quickly he decided he did not want to be one of Gautama's followers but then felt very lost after he did so. He didnt necessarily feel guilty about his decision but as said on page 67, "... and his heart ached as if, with this dead bird, he had thrown away all value and all goodness.", and with that it I feel like there was a major similarity between the ache in his heart and the emptiness in his soul when he is with Kamala and surrounded by all the things that he initially wanted to flee from. Therefore once Siddhartha woke up from his dream, he intensely felt the need to find englightenment and fill the emptiness of his soul, so he fled from Kamala to do so.
Deletei have also noticed that the dream was a warning about his depression. telling him that he was stuck and that he didnt care about his life, shown with him throwing the dead bird in his dream. his depression drew stronger with his gambling and drinking and his dream was warning him that if he were to continue living that way, then he would die without doing anything wonderful with his life. i think it was interesting that every dream he has foreshadows the upcoming chapters
DeleteThroughout the book, Siddhartha encounters and has very different reactions to two enlightened people - Gautama and Vasudeva. On pg. 28, Hesse writes, "Siddhartha saw him, and he instantly recognized him as if a god had pointed him out." For Vasudeva, Siddhartha's first impression was different. Siddhartha notes, "'All the people I meet on my path are like Govinda... All are subservient, all want to be friends, like to obey, think little. People are like children." (pg. 46-47) Arguably, he truly found enlightenment with Vasudeva, when on pg. 95 Vasadeva "leaned over to Siddhartha and spoke the sacred om into his ear." Also, it seems like Siddhartha "learned" more from the ferryman than anyone else when they conversed in The Ferryman, which is ironic because Siddhartha himself stated that teaching and scriptures weren't what he needed. I'm curious as to how Siddhartha instantly recognized the spiritual transcendence in Gautama, but thought of Vasudeva like Govinda or any other person. How do the two differ from each other, and how are they the same? Is one "more enlightened" than the other, or was it a personal change in Siddhartha that prevented him from seeing the enlightenment in Vasudeva?
ReplyDeleteI agree that Siddhartha seems to contradict himself in the idea that he can not learn from teachers, but I found that comparing Vasudeva to Govinda was very fitting. Near the end of the book, when Govinda meets Siddhartha for the last time, Siddhartha explains to him that everyone has taught him something, even Govinda himself. For Siddhartha, he sees that for a person to teach him, it is not required for them to be enlightened. Both Govinda and Kamala were more pupils of Siddhartha than he was of them. Personally, I think that Siddhartha and Vasudeva both taught each other, and that neither was fully enlightened until the end. This is how he did not recognize it before, because it was not fully there.
DeleteI also agree that Siddhartha seems to contradict himself when he says he cannot learn from teachers because he seems to seek for advise and tries to learn from the people he meets. I think that he wants to learn from all the different perspectives of his companions but does not feel comfortable calling them teachers. I think that Govinda started to come to the conclusion that he does not need to be taught by only one person, that there are different techniques to reach enlightenment. This is similar to Vasudeva because he did not want to learn from people, he wanted to learn from the river. Vasudeva reached enlightenment from the river, so maybe Govinda will learn from it, just like he and Siddhartha.
DeleteOn page 39 of Siddhartha, Hesse writes, "From that moment, when the world melted away all around him, when he was alone like a star in the sky, from that moment of coldness and despondence, Siddhartha surfaced, more ego than before, more concentrated." From this quote, it shows that during the point when Govinda leaves, something inside Siddhartha seems to click, he realizes from his previous life that he has grown greatly attached to Govinda. Govinda was almost part of Siddhartha. With Govinda, Siddhartha was a "star" to be looked upon, he shined for a reason. Knowing that Govinda has left to worship someone else, Siddhartha has lost a part of himself that helped give his actions meaning. Now, Siddhartha shines only for himself, which in turn gives him more ego. When he says he is alone, he also means on a deeper level that Siddhartha no longer knows his own purpose.
ReplyDeleteI thought it was interesting how Siddhartha could leave his longtime childhood friend so easily. If Govinda was truly such a huge part of Siddhartha's life, how could he so easily let him walk away? It almost feels as if Govinda was more attached to Siddhartha than SIddhartha was to Govinda. It makes the reader wonder if SIddhartha just sees Govinda as more of a follower and almost a sort of servant rather than someone close to his heart.
DeleteSiddhartha does see Govinda more as a follower than as a friend. Siddhartha's will always overrides Govinda's. This happens when Siddhartha decides to leave his home and when he leaves the Samanas. After Siddhartha leaves Govinda, he doesn't give him even a second thought until the very end, much like he did to his father. Siddhartha leaves first his village and eventually his friend who comes with him. When he says he is alone, I feel he deserves it. Siddhartha didn't have much respect for people in general. The end of the book does not make clear whether this changes or not; it only makes clear that Siddhartha has made himself happy. At the end, however, Govinda gets something from Siddhartha. Did he get enlightenment, or did he get something less? What does Govinda feel towards Siddhartha at this moment? What does Siddhartha feel towards Govinda?
DeleteI don't think Govinda achieves enlightenment with Siddhartha. In that moment, Govinda simply feels love for Siddhartha. The book says as much on the last page, as Hesse writes, "A feeling of most profound love and most humble veneration burned like a fire in [Govinda's] heart" (page 118). Govinda's love for Siddhartha resembles the love a child has for his or her parent in how pure it is, and how Govinda also looks up greatly to Siddhartha. To continue the metaphor, Siddhartha is Govinda's emotionally unavailable dad who never gives Govinda the validation he craves. At the end of the book, Siddhartha seems to reciprocate the love Govinda has for him, if only partially. Govinda finally feels the full extent of his love for Siddhartha when Siddhartha lets Govinda witness his enlightenment. However, I'm not sure Siddhartha lets him share that moment because he loves Govinda. Does he actually love Govinda? Or does he just do it to make Govinda happy?
DeleteI also agree. Siddartha before this part in the book had always relied on Govinda not matter if he had realized it or no. Govinda had become apart of him and know as he left Siddartha was forced to rely on himself. I think this was a great introduction for Siddarthas charcter to become more independent.
DeleteThe final pages of this book present an interesting dilemma. Siddhartha has learned that enlightenment cannot come from teachers, and he grows impatient with the Samanas' and Gotama's unsuccessful method of imparting enlightenment through verbal teaching. In the last chapter, Govinda sees Siddhartha achieve enlightenment and in that moment acknowledges that Siddhartha's way (complete with detours) was more successful than his way. However, when Gotama kisses Siddhartha's forehead, he "saw other faces, many faces, a long series, a continuous stream of faces", much like Siddhartha's own experience with enlightenment, so Govinda has just experienced enlightenment from a teacher. Siddhartha seems not only to have discovered enlightenment, he has also just taught it to someone, something he claims cannot be done. This doesn't make any sense. If Gotama achieved this "enlightenment", wouldn't he be able to give it to everyone else by having them kiss him on the forehead?
ReplyDeleteI think this is a very unique view point. However, I do not believe that Siddhartha actually "taught" enlightenment to Govinda. First of all, those with smiles in the book are those who have achieved true enlightenment. Only Siddhartha and Vasudeva were recorded to smile at certain points in the book. However, concerning Govinda, Hesse stated, "Tears ran over his old face, but he was unaware of them; the feeling of deepest love, of humblest veneration burned in his heart like a fire...smile reminded him of everything that he had ever loved in his life..." (P. 132). This imagery of tears draws a feeling of desperation from Govinda, in which he yearns to learn the ways of Siddhartha to reach his goals. If Govinda feels "veneration", then he is reverent towards Siddhartha, and treats Siddhartha like a role model. As a result, Govinda still hasn't realized that he has to follow his own path and learn from all the aspects of life rather than rely on teachers to guide him in order to achieve true enlightenment. In fact, earlier Siddhartha taught Govinda the difference between finding and seeking. Govinda still "seeks" for the feeling of enlightenment from Siddhartha, which will result in emptiness, while Siddhartha has already "found" enlightenment, and therefore smiles. My opinion is that Govinda remained static all throughout the book, including at the end, and still possesses the same attitude of looking to role models rather than pursuing new experiences to gain wisdom. He hasn't gained true enlightenment yet.
Delete"You are the making of a pilgrimage," said Govinda,"but few make a pilgrimage in such clothes, in such shoes, and with such hair. I, have been wandering for many years, have never seen such a pilgrim." (Page 93 in the blue book)
ReplyDeleteThis quote stood out to me because I was questioning Siddhartha's choices, just as Govinda was. Siddhartha's main aspiration is to leave material items behind, in order to seek his total self, or enlightenment. As the reader, I saw Kamala change Siddhartha into the man that he used to be. Kamala spoke of Siddhartha saying, "No, he is not yet good enough, he must have clothes, fine clothes, and shoes, fine shoes, and plenty of money in his purse and presents for Kamala," (Page 54.) The effect of Kamala feeling this way was Siddhartha falling back into his cycle of being materialistic. He feels an immense amount of love and lust of Kamala, which is evident through his materialism. Herman Hesse also used parallel structure in both of these quotes. The parallel structure put emphasis on the importance of these substantial items. The overall representation of this passage is that one will do anything, including altering themselves in order to appeal to another person. I was surprised that despite Siddhartha's dedication, he would give up part of his mission to chase Kamala. At the beginning of the story, I believed that Siddhartha was a much more determined character, and was disappointed to see him fall back into this cycle.
To add on to that, when I was reading through the passage it caught my attention that Govinda had seemed so content with his decision to stay with Gautama which I thought was great. From the very beginning the author used the characterization of Govinda to make him seem like he was a follower of Siddhartha. Now to see that Govinda is in such a good place compared to Siddhartha it interesting to watch the roles reverse. The first chapters in the book made Govinda seem dependent on Siddhartha and yearned on his attention. Now as Siddhartha meets with him for the first time in years he realizes that Govinda is no longer interested in Siddharthas attention and has become a successful man in being independent. I secretly was rooting for him from the beginning just because he was the underdog in the story and who doesnt love seeing underdog be successful?
DeleteOn page 118 in my book in the chapter "The Son" Hesse writes, "...Siddhartha began to realize that no happiness that no happiness and peace would come to him with his son, only sorrow and trouble. But he loved him and preferred the sorrow and trouble of his love rather than happiness and pleasure without the boy". I thought that ths was a really key point in the story. Up to this point, Siddhartha only lived for himself, and his main focus was on his wants and his life. Here, however, we see a shift in his views. For the first time so far in the book, he seems to be putting someone else before himself. He would rather be miserable and have his son than be happy and carefree without him. I think it is really powerful how in the book,as well as many instances in real life, having a child tends to change a whole person's perspective on life. I think this experience for Siddhartha is critical in minimizing his ego. For the first time Siddhartha feels real sorrow. He feels true pain in seeing his son refuse to let Siddhartha nto his life, and I think that is a valuable experience for Siddhartha. He needed to be exposed to that in order to develop a higher appreciation for the world.
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ReplyDeleteTo go along with what William said earlier, Siddhartha finds himself gambling again in order for fulfill the pleasure he needs. Hesse writes, "For it was only these sensations that he still felt something like happiness, something like euphoria, something like a heightened life in the midst of his glutted, tepid, insipid existence". I interpreted this as a way that Siddhartha can deal with his depression in the fact that he has yet to find enlightenment. I also connected this in the present day with a gambler who has not gambled in a while and feels very depressed due to his withdrawl from it. In order for him to feel happiness he has to gamble just like Siddhartha has to gamble to feel a sensation of euphoria. In a way this is sad to think that he can only be happy with the feeling of competition and money, but is closely related to our society today. I did find it ironic that Siddhartha wants to win at all costs and have money for himself to be happy when in the beginning of the story all he wanted to do was be selfless. As he keeps on going down his journey I feel as though he is drifting farther and farther away from enlightenment. However at the same time him drifting further and further away may make him realize his mistake. One moment of recognition from Siddhartha about his current actions most likely will help him to find englightenment. If anybody had a different interpretation of this feel free to share because I feel as though there might be a different meaning to this as well.
ReplyDeleteIn addition to what Cassie wrote, I found another meaning in Siddhartha’s excessive gambling. In my opinion, Siddhartha’s bad gambling habit is symbolic of his life among the child people. When people gamble, they are not in control of the outcome, are not weighing the risks of their actions, and are often addicted to this activity. Similarly, Siddhartha has fallen off of his path of finding enlightenment. His life is now focused on leisure and material possessions. He is no longer generous and willing to help others. Symbolically, he is basically throwing the dice with his life; he is no longer focused on his life goal, but instead is caught up in a world of greed and lust. Hesse wrote about Siddhartha’s gambling, “…Siddhartha began to play dice for money and jewels with increasing fervor, a game which he had previously smilingly and indulgently taken part as a custom of the ordinary people. He was a formidable player; few dared play with him for his stakes were so high and reckless” (Hesse 79). This illustrates how Siddhartha no longer has a purpose in his actions as he mindlessly and recklessly throws away his money often. Furthermore, this quote demonstrates how Siddhartha has lost his mental superiority to others, which was once what drove him to become enlightened. He participates in the activities of the people who he once referred to as child people. Additionally, like many frequent gamblers, Siddhartha displayed many tendencies of addiction, except his addiction is to his lifestyle. This is demonstrated through his preoccupation with Kamala although he claims not to love her. Also, this is illustrated by the fact that Siddhartha has become everything he did not want to be when he started his journey in becoming a Samana, demonstrating the addictive quality of no longer caring about your life. I just found this passage very interesting in how it coincides to the state of Siddhartha’s life in the chapter Samsara.
DeleteOn page 64 of Siddhartha, Hesse writes, "Most people, Kamala, are like a falling leaf, that wafts and drifts through the air, and twists and tumbles to the ground. Others, however, few, are like stars: they have a fixed course, no wind reaches them, they have their law and their course inside them." This passage was outstanding to me, as it added further insight to Siddhartha's beliefs on the path to enlightenment. Until this point in the novel, I was still slightly confused on what Siddhartha really thought about enlightenment. The two similes Hesse made in this passage significantly helped in clarifying Siddhartha's viewpoints. First, Siddhartha compares unenlightened people, or "the child people" as he commonly refers to them as, to falling leaves. Leaves, being flimsy and essentially lifeless, are subject to all the forces of the world, much like the child people are. The child people, like Kamaswami for example, are easily swayed by trivial concepts, especially material life , and this, in Siddhartha's opinion, is why they will never truly reach enlightenment because enlightenment is achieved through self-directed action. In stark contrast, Siddhartha compares the enlightened people, to stars on a fixed course. Not only does this show how these types of people are bound to nothing but their own will, it also shows how much more superior Siddhartha thinks the enlightened are. The child people are comparable to dead foliage while the enlightened are comparable to bright, burning entities that create their own energy from within. This could also explain why Siddhartha treats others with such a condescending tone so often, as he rejects their choice to follow a path created by someone else. Further along in the same passage, Siddhartha takes this thought and expands on it by rejecting Gautama's Teaching specifically: "A thousand disciples hear his Teaching every day, follow his rules, every hour, but all of them are falling leaves, they have no law and no teaching within them." Hesse continues the falling leaves simile in a statement that essentially tags Gautama as a hypocrite. In Siddhartha's point of view, Gautama promotes a Teaching that does exactly the opposite of what it attempts to accomplish: it subjects its followers to a predetermined path, rather than teaching them to find their own path to enlightenment. Overall, I thought that this was a very important passage in novel as it clarifies two grey areas in the novel. Hesse uses similes to explain Siddhartha's view on enlightenment and why he rejects Gautama's Teaching. The reader may not necessarily agree with Siddhartha's opinions but at least they may understand where he is coming from.
ReplyDelete"The child people, like Kamaswami for example, are easily swayed by trivial concepts, especially material life , and this, in Siddhartha's opinion, is why they will never truly reach enlightenment because enlightenment is achieved through self-directed action." I found this part of your analysis especially interesting. Throughout the book, Siddhartha himself engages in activities he deemed as trivial, meaningless, or otherwise lowly. When he first set out to be a samana, he cast away all worldly pleasures, finding bitterness and contempt for the world. Yet, later in the book, Siddhartha goes through different stages, where he himself succumbs to his own desires, first to Kamala, which is actually on the next page, "Siddhartha was silent, and they played the game of love, one of the thirty of forty different games that Kamala knew." In the next chapter, Samsara, the beginning sentence states, "For a long time Siddhartha had lived the life of the world and the pleasures without actually belonging to it". Siddhartha lives among the child people, has contempt for them, but finally in this chapter he falls, falls to the temptation of Samsara, growing accustomed to the gluttony of his lavished lifestyle and the greed from gambling. Siddhartha seems almost inhuman in the way he acts, in his thirst for enlightenment and in his unbreaking will and determination to reach it, yet at the same time is characterized as all too human by his own hypocrisy and nature as he too, becomes a child-person. I just felt that the constant back and forth and the juxtaposition between Siddhartha's discipline and his humanity felt awkward and unrealistic at times, but was also helpful for better understanding Siddhartha, because of the unrelatability of not only his life, but his personality and thought process.
DeleteThe way that Siddhartha perceives the mindset of the child people is very fascinating. There's a passage in the chapter Samsara that describes what Siddhartha had been worrying about: becoming assimilated with the child people. "He envied them for the one thing that he lacked and that they had: the importance they were able to place on their lives, the passionateness of their joys and fears, the queasy but sweet happiness of being eternally in love."(pg. 69) It was strange how it mentions that Siddhartha lacks the self-importance the child people had. You would think that with the addition of Kamala and her lessons of love, and the fact that many others respect and admire him, he would be more entitled to having that passionate desire of love. On the same page, the passage continues, but gives the reader another perspective: "These men were constantly in love with themselves, with women, with their children, with honor or money, with plans or hopes." Interesting, so the kind of love Siddhartha lacked was the love of possessions, of dreams and ambitions. Siddhartha did not find that connection to other child people through the love of worldly possessions. Why was was he envious to this? It could be because he had become blinded by the child people's way of life. The passage finishes up with a statement that summarizes the way Siddhartha feels about the child people. "What the learned from them [child people] were the unpleasant things, the things that he himself despised." Why is it that Siddhartha envies the child people's love of worldly possessions, but learns that he despises these otherwise unpleasant values?
ReplyDeleteI also found this juxtaposition of Siddhartha's simultaneous envy and disgust towards the child people fascinating. I think Hesse uses is contrast in emotions to show how there is beauty and sin in everything. Before Siddhartha becomes involved with the child people, he sees them only with a condescending eye. This shows in the way he speaks about them and to them. On page 62, Siddhartha says, "You did not teach me how to think, dear Kamaswami. You would do better to learn it from me." It isn't until later when Siddhartha sees what is good about the child people. Siddhartha's realization shows towards the end of Among the Child People on page 65, when he is lying with Kamala. He remarks, "Perhaps people like us cannot love. The child people can; that is their secret." To answer your question, I think Siddhartha envies the child people not because they are able to love their worldly possessions, but because they are able to live and love happily without prior enlightenment. Throughout the novel, Siddhartha searches for enlightenment because he believes it will allow him to finally reach inner peace. He is jealous of the child people because they live in peace without enlightenment. During his time as a rich man, Siddhartha learned from the child people. He learned "how to do business, wield power over people, take pleasure with a woman," (68). The list goes on. He learned to live the exact same life as the child people, yet he cannot indulge in happiness and love in the ignorant way that they do because he is too fixated on achieving enlightenment before happiness. This is how Siddhartha is able to envy the child people's way of life while despising it at the same time.
Deletei think siddhartha envies how the child people can love and feel love. siddhartha had learned to distance himself from possessions and never fully learned how to love. he was given praise, but it doesnt say if his father and mother ever showed loving affection toward siddhartha. being deprived of this feeling of love, siddhartha never loved anything. even when he was with kamala, she noticed that he did not truly love her. being around the child people, siddhartha noticed this love. he tried to be like the child people and forced himself to try and love possessions, but these possessions did not return the favor, which did not satisfy him. i think siddhartha envied how the child people could love one another and that he too wants to be loved and love someone else.
DeleteI definitely agree with what Jenny said. Siddhartha’s fixation on enlightenment holds him back from loving anyone. He pursues Kamala and a life of worldly possessions not because he simply wants to have sex and get drunk, but because he senses a lack of emotional attachment in life. His rejection of the woman by the stream before he meets Kamala (which I have talked about below) shows his desire for more than just sex. Kamala definitely loves Siddhartha, as she after they make love for the last time, “You are certainly the best lover I have ever encountered” (58). However, as Jenny said, Siddhartha states that he is incapable of love and views it as a secret of the “child people”. Siddhartha certainly feels an emotional connection between Kamala and himself, otherwise he would not have had a relationship with her. However, Siddhartha then leaves Kamala because he realizes living with her will not bring him to the enlightenment he seeks, and this seems to be what keeps him from understanding the child people’s secret of love. Had he been able to be content with his comfortable life with Kamala, he most likely would have been able to love her, but his inability to be content with his life with Kamala makes him think that his emotional connection with her is bad or somehow tainted because it isn’t bringing him closer to enlightenment. This fixation on enlightenment is also my major frustration with the book and the character of Siddhartha, but I digress. Siddhartha is unable to love anyone because the emotion of love doesn’t help him achieve enlightenment, which is his only goal throughout his life. This leads me to wonder, did Siddhartha ever love anyone else in the book? Govinda seems to be the only other possibility, but I am not convinced he loves anyone in the novel.
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ReplyDeleteThroughout the novel, Hesse implements the motif of different types of trees to illustrate Siddhartha's growth in wisdom and enlightenment. At the beginning of "The Son of the Brahmin", the author notes, "in the shade of the fig tree is where Siddhartha grew up" (P. 1). As a fig contains a hollow syconium, Siddhartha is also hollow because his growth in enlightenment hasn't matured; he still yearns for new experiences that will achieve him true enlightenment. In "Gautama", the author states, "what he ate could not even have satisfied a bird's appetite, and they saw him retiring into the shade of the mango-trees" (P. 28). Mango trees, in this novel, represent stationary pleasure. While the fruit of a mango is sweet and savory, it cannot truly quench the soul when it is eaten regularly without other fruits to combine with it, similar Gautama's fixed mindset of meditation, without other experiences under his belt. This relates to Siddhartha in "Samsara" when he "...rose, bid his farewell to the mango-tree, his farewell to the pleasure-garden" (P. 75). Here, he realizes that his material life of gambling and worldly pleasures aren't enough to give him contentment, so his farewell to the mango tree represents his abandonment of stationary pleasure to search for new experiences to give him enlightenment. Before meeting with Kamala, "He saw the sun rising over the mountains with their forests and setting over the distant beach with its palm-trees" (P. 43). Palm trees resemble beaches and luxurious experiences in the tropics. They connotate a lust for worldly pleasures, thus foreshadowing Siddhartha's decision to stay with Kamala and live a worldy life. In "Samsara", before he bids farewell to the mango tree, the author stated, "Slowly, like humidity entering the dying stem of a tree, filling it slowly and making it rot, the world and sloth had entered Siddhartha's soul..." (P. 68). The death of the tree symbolizes Siddhartha's spiritual death, in which he lived a materialistic life and allowed his spiritual growth to come to a halt. However, when Siddhartha slept by the river, "...under a coconut-tree, he has come to his senses, the holy word Om on his lips, that then he had fallen asleep and had now woken up and was looking at the world as a new man" (P. 79-80). When a coconut bumps on someone's head, the person will usually suddenly remember a critical piece of information or have a sudden epiphany. Similarly, when Siddhartha slept under the coconut tree, he woke up as a renewed and refreshed man, able to fully grasp the significance of all his past experiences. Therefore, the coconut tree resembles his dynamic characterization, in which he realizes that his past experiences helped him obtain a grasp of nature, thus granting him enlightenment. While staying with Vasudeva, Siddhartha "...worked with Vasudeva in the rice-field, gathered wood, plucked the fruit off the banana-trees" (P. 93). Bananas are cultivated in multiple chunks and groups off of trees. These clumps all resemble Siddhartha's past experiences and growth, as well as the learning that he obtained from Vasudeva while studying by the river. Therefore, the tree resembles Siddhartha's growth in enlightenment, and the fruit represents his inner emotions or perceptions of life as he encounters all of these experiences.
ReplyDelete"Seeking means: having a goal. But finding means: being free, being open, having no goal. You, Venerable One, may truly be a seeker, for, in striving toward your goal, you fail to see certain things that are right under your nose" (P. 122)
ReplyDeleteI thought that this passage summed up the theme of the book: that true enlightenment is achieved not through a defined step-by-step process, but through a plethora of experiences that will grant wisdom concerning the pros and cons of the world. Throughout the novel, Hesse emphasizes the contrast between Govinda and Siddhartha's characterizations. For instance, before Siddhartha joined the Samanas, the narrator stated, "Did the offerings bring happiness? And what about the gods? Was it really Prajapati who had created the world? Was it not Atman, he, the Only One, the All-One?" (P. 5). This is a prime example of Siddhartha's contentious personality, in which he questions all the miniscule problems about everything he follows. The chain of interrogative sentences establishes a sense of curiosity and ambivalence in the reader, in which the reader's emotions correspond to Siddhartha's conflicting emotions. This allows the reader to empathize with Siddhartha's motives to explore new experiences and obtain a grasp of the true experiences that the world had to offer. In the chapter "Gautama", while Siddhartha instantly recognized Gautama, Govinda turned his attention to monks, in which "nothing seemed to set him apart from the hundreds of other monks" (P. 26). By juxtaposing him with monks, Hesse established Govinda's adherent personality, in which he required a leader or mass to follow. Hesse also establishes their differences through the motif of stars. Siddhartha describes to Kamala, "Most people...are like a falling leaf, that wafts and drifts through the air...Others, however, few, are like stars: they have a fixed course, no wind reaches them, they have their law and their course inside them" (P. 64). The leaf represents Govinda, who only goes with the flow of his surroundings, and aimlessly follows others in an attempt to reach his goals. Siddhartha, on the other hand, is like a lone star; he goes along with methods and lifestyles that he deems beneficial to his path to enlightenment, and can decipher his feelings of discontent from his feelings of praise. Therefore, these passages illustrate the stark contrast between Govinda and Siddhartha, which Hesse purposefully implemented to demonstrate that those who try to taste new experiences will be able to achieve enlightenment faster than those without open minds that wish to satisfy fixed goals.
I actually think that Siddhartha can also be represented by the falling leaf. Recall that in the first chapter, when Siddhartha was meditating with Govinda, he repeatedly uttered the verses, "Om is bow, the arrow is soul, Brahma is the arrow's goal, It must be struck unswervingly." (Hesse 7) I wouldn't say that Siddhartha ever had a "fixed course" in his life. Even his goals and ideals for true happiness, or enlightenment, changed throughout the course of the story. After listening to your IOP, I would argue even more that Siddhartha "wafted and drifted through the air" in his journey to find enlightenment, as he was molded by each of his experiences and had no real "course" inside him. Instead of being a star, which would represent the static characterization of Govinda, the "leaf" is more characteristic of Siddhartha. Of course, another interpretation of the metaphor would be the strength, or resolve, of the "inner self," which would resemble a star much more in Siddhartha's example. However, referring back to my IOP of continuous change in an individual, I think that this is yet another example of the irony in Siddhartha's life, something that Siddhartha said but did not turn out to be true at all.
DeleteI think of Vasudeva as Siddhartha's guide or guardian angel on his path to enlightenment. This is because he seems to appear when Siddhartha is starting over with a rebirth. The first time is on pg 45, right after Siddhartha is waking up from his dream of Govinda. This is when Siddhartha is starting over by traveling through the village and becoming a wealthy, greedy gambler and is having his relationship with Kamala. Vasudeva carries him into this life like he is leading Siddhartha along his chosen path. The next time Siddhartha meets with Vasudeva is on pg 89. This was after he had his revelations by the river and decided that he wanted to spend his time there for a while to see if he could learn anything further from the ferryman or the river. He said, "I want to remain by this river, thought Siddhartha, it is the same one that I crossed while going to the child people," on pg 89. Vasudeva, the ferryman, guided him to enlightenment by continually telling Siddhartha to listen to the river and not telling him what he should do to reach enlightenment. Vasudeva believed that the river would teach him everything he needed to know, which eventually it did do. The last time Siddhartha saw Vasudeva was after they listened to the river and received all of its wisdom. This is on pg 120 and it says, "Radiant, he walked away; Siddhartha gazed after him. Deeply joyous, deeply earnest, he gazed after him, saw his steps full of peace, saw his head full of radiance, saw his figure full of light." I believe that after Siddhartha had found enlightenment, Vasudeva believed that his duty was done and that Siddhartha no longer needed him around for guidance or anything else. This shows how he is like a guardian angel because he is full of light like he is not a real person.
ReplyDeleteI agree with the fact that Vasudeva acted as a sort of guardian angel in Siddhartha's path to enlightenment, but I don't think he had anything to do with Siddhartha's life among the child people. He wanted to learn the art of love, but he realized it can only be paired with money and turning out like Kamaswami, and that's not how Siddhartha wanted to end up. He didn't think there was anything left for him, "Glutted full, full of misery, full of death, there was nothing more in the world that could entice him, give him pleasure..." (Hesse 69). He didn't think about the river or Vasudeva, just about his past adventures with Kamala, Govinda and many others. The river just coincidentally was there to save him at a very low time of his life, and that's why Siddhartha was reconnected with Vasudeva who led him to enlightenment.
DeleteI believe both points are true but I agree more with Abby. It's true that Vasudeva was not involved with Siddhartha's life when he went towards the child people, but I agree that Vasudeva was there to help Siddhartha cross towards that part of his life. Nate's point is also true because Vasudeva didn't really lead Siddhartha into the child people. Vasudeva was just there to help Siddhartha cross to a new life. Vasudeva is not aware of Siddhartha's goals and only did as he was told, shown where it says, "...Siddhartha asked the ferryman to take him to the other side. The ferryman took him across the river..." (pg 40). The only time Vasudeva did become involved in Siddhartha's life was when Siddhartha asked Vasudeva if he (Siddhartha) can live with Vasudeva to learn the ways of the river
DeleteI agree that Vasudeva did help Siddhartha along his journey to enlightenment, and near the end, helped to guide his path, but I also wouldn't say Vasudeva is the sole "guardian angel" to Siddhartha. Many people helped Siddhartha along his journey to enlightenment. Though Siddhartha may not recognize everyone who's helped him, he recognizes many,and say, this is shown when Hesse writes, "Once, a wandering diciple of the Buddha was my teacher; he sat with me during his pilgrimage when I had fallen asleep in the forest. I learned from him too, I was thankful for him too, very thankful" (123). I think Siddhartha had a lot of people in his life to guide him, even more than he realizes. In addition to Govinda and Vasudeva who helped Siddhartha, Gautama, Kamala, Kamaswami, and Siddhartha's parents had a big influence on him. All of these people can help, whether or not they exhibit holy influence. (Though Siddhartha does say that Vasudeva was his main teacher). Siddhartha seems to be more influenced actually by the non-religious aspects of life, but more with a oneness with the world and it's people.
DeleteIn the chapter, Awakening, from pages 36 to 37, it is a major turning point for Siddhartha in his early stages of development. Before, Siddhartha had focused on following a teacher who would lead him to enlightenment, but now he has decided to no longer follow anyone but himself. This point in the book was inevitable since it had seemed that Siddhartha never found the answers he wanted through his previous teachers. This point, where he now has accepted ego and reality, gives him a re-birth on his perspective of the world. This is shown when the author writes, ‘He looked around as if seeing the world for the first time.” After this the author uses imagery to describe the outside world. Siddhartha obviously feels a strong sense of empowerment that can also be felt by the readers, as he shows excitement through the simple colors of the forest and river. The imagery used here, although simple, is very powerful because it gives the reader a better understanding of Siddhartha’s feelings. His recent realization of the beauty of nature shows how blinded he was before to all that nature can teach him. This new found realization leads him closer to enlightenment. Another important quote from the passage states, “For the first time, all this, all this yellow and blue, river and forest, passed into Siddhartha through his eyes, was no longer the magic of Mara, was no longer the veil of Maya…” This was my favorite quote from the passage because of the importance of what the author is writing. Mara, being the demon that tempted Buddha and Maya, the Hindu belief that reality isn’t what it seems, shows serious religious and spiritual reference to this passage. Siddhartha is realizing that the world isn’t all temptations of demons and a veil of worldly illusion that cannot be understood by humans. Considering how major of a belief this is to the Brahmans, this is a huge change for Siddhartha in his beliefs. He is going against something he was previously taught and has believed for most of his life. Understanding realism and that not everything is a work of evil, Siddhartha is starting over with his beliefs about the world. This is a good point for Siddhartha to begin his new journey but also is what misguides him down the path of the child-people. Did anyone else find this passage interesting or have a different interpretation of it?
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with you Olivia! The story would have taken a completely different turn if Siddhartha had stayed with human teachers. I also like how you explained the imagery and how nature can teach Siddhartha, because that is exactly what happened with the river. The point of the story where Siddhartha realizes "not everything is a work of evil," reminded me of a later quote in the book that we discussed, "everything that exists is good." It's very clear that through the book Siddhartha has changed his life, and his mindset completely. He went from being arrogant and seeing everything as evil, to being a new enlightened man with a positive outlook on life.
DeleteDuring the fishbowl last class, the topic of Siddhartha's arrogance was discussed. Many people in the group believed that Siddhartha was arrogant not only at the beginning of the story, but through the whole book. I tried to jump into the "Hot Seat," however someone had already gotten there, so I figured that I will share my opinion on this blog.
ReplyDeleteAt the beginning of the story, Siddhartha was a very arrogant character. People that knew him believed that he "delighted and made everyone happy," (Page 5 in the blue book.) In my opinion, when people think highly of you, you have a greater chance of feeling more self important. Although arrogance isn't a good quality to possess, I do not blame Siddhartha for acting this way. As the story developed, Siddhartha fell back into temptation. On page 77, "Siddhartha had learned how to transact business affairs, to exercise power over people, to amuse himself with women; he had learned to wear fine clothes, to command servants, to bathe in sweet-smelling waters. He had learned to eat sweet and carefully prepared foods, also fish and meet and fowl, spices and dainties, and to drink wine which made him lazy and forgetful. He had learned to play dice and chess, to watch dancers, to be carried in sedan chairs, to sleep on a soft bed." This was during the time in Siddhartha's journey when he was learning from Kamaswami. Quickly, he came to the conclusion that he didn't desire to be like Kamaswami in any way, and continued on his journey without him by his side. After he discovered the river and felt enlightened, Siddhartha had "died and a new Siddhartha had awakened from his sleep," (Page 100.) At this moment, I believe that he realized his arrogance, and decided to let it die with his old soul. Beyond this point, he is aware of others, especially his son, and doesn't have an exaggerated sense of his own self importance. Although everyone does have an arrogant side, Siddhartha realizes his actions, and dramatically changes them in the last few chapters of the book. Therefore proving, that Siddhartha is not arrogant throughout the entire novel.
I agree that Siddhartha was arrogant during a majority of the book. However, I believe he stayed that way all the way through the end, and the way in which he talks to Govinda in the last chapter illustrates this. He thinks that the only path to enlightment is the path he went down, learning from the river and following its teachings. Govinda clearly didn't agree with what Sidhhartha was saying, "...his teachings sounds foolish. The pure teachings of the Exalted One sound different, clearer, purer, more understandable, with nothing peculiar, foolhardy or ridiculous in them." (pg. 116 in my book). Although Siddhartha may have let his old soul die, I still think certain traits that were very relevant in his life carried over to his new, enlightened body, the primary trait being arrogance. It may not be as noticeable as before, but it definitely still exists within him. This isn't his fault though. His treatment as a boy encouraged this behavior, just like you said. I'm sure he would like to be like Vasudeva and accept anything and everything, but I don't believe Siddhartha is capable of this.
DeleteDuring the fishbowl i heard the symbol of smiles come up and being discussed repeatedly. during the discussion someone made a point that those who smiled seemed to have reached enlightenment. though this can be true, smiles can mean something different as well. It could be interpreted that when someone smiled, it was as if they were smiling mockingly because they knew a secret that Siddhartha and the reader didn’t know yet. The Buddha smiles because he found a way to reach enlightenment. Vasudeva smiles because he found inner peace and also reached enlightenment within himself. Kamala smiles because she knows the art of making love and how to manipulate men into doing anything she wants them to do. Towards the end Siddhartha shared the same smile because he found enlightenment, but I could be interpreted as mocking Govinda because Siddhartha smiled to Govinda before Govinda understood. With the knowledge of how smiles could be interpreted good or bad, it changed the tone of the book for me. Instead of the feeling of pleasure and happiness, there was an opposite feeling of being mocked. This makes me wonder if Siddhartha interpreted the smiles as happiness and enlightenment or in a mocking way. When Siddhartha encountered the smiling person, he soon afterwards asked to become a student and learn the
ReplyDeleteways of the one who smiled. those who smiled tended to be important teachers. on page 23 Hesse writes, "His [Gotama] face was neither happy nor sad; it gave the impression of an inward smile." Hesse doesnt write if the smile was interpreted in a good way or in a mocking way. Smiles can be interpreted in many ways. It is hard to distinguish the different smiles. Those who may seem like they are smiling could be smiling because they are mocking the person without them knowing. On the other hand, smiles could be interpreted as a welcoming sign and can be used to show inner peace and pleasure. then after Siddhartha had his talk with Gotama, he acknowledges how the Buddha appeared to him. on page 29, Hesse writes " In truth that is just the way i [Siddhartha] would like to be able to gaze, smile, sit, and walk- so freely, so worthy, so hidden, so open, so childlike, and so mysterious." the last half seems as if Siddhartha may have realized that the smile could be Gotama mocking him because he knows the answer that Siddhartha is searching for. Do you think Siddhartha interpreted the smiles as mocking him?
For this post, I wanted to focus more on Siddhartha's son, and why he plays an important role in the end of the novel. I found a good quote to summarize what Siddhartha's feelings were towards him in the chapter "The Son." In this passage, he begins to realize the importance of what the child people have had for so long: the desire to love. "Indeed, he had never been able to loose himself completely in anyone else, give himself completely to another person, forget himself, commit follies of love for someone else. He had never been able to do these things, and this had struck him as the great gap between him and the child people" (Hesse 107). The significance in this passage is the way Hesse describes it: his son became an expression to the child people's desire of love, and his envious ways of having this love becoming fully realized. Throughout his journey, he has always had a "my enlightenment first" mind-set that led to him leaving people who had loved him the most, such as Govinda, Kamala, and his father. With his son being introduced in the story, he becomes emotionally attached to the boy and does not want him to leave, just as his father did before him. It can be thought of as a Karmic cycle, as one's actions interlink with one's future actions. Siddhartha neglected his father when he decided to become a samana, so the son will neglect him and try to move away to follow his own path. " He was bored with his father, who kept him captive in his wretched hut, he was bored with him and with his way of responding to every rotten act with smiles, to every insult with friendliness, to every nastiness with kindness- that was the most hateful cunning of that old conniver." (Hesse 108) It is almost as if Siddhartha's son was behaving similarly to when he was younger, uninterested and wanting more out of life than the same meaningless tasks. Do you think this is true? Is the way Siddhartha's son is acting a fault of Siddhartha, or of the child people?
ReplyDeleteI agree with many of your points, Josiah. Siddhartha the son is clearly what changed Siddhartha in the novel; he is what allowed Siddhartha to discover love. As sated in your passage, Siddhartha was never capable of loving someone, even those whom he shared much of his life with. Hesse’s use of the word ‘follies’ indicates that Siddhartha believes that it is foolish and beneath him to love someone, further characterizing Siddhartha as arrogant. When he meets his son though, he indulges in this emotion of the child people and lets himself completely love Siddhartha the son. I wondered while reading this section though if the only reason Siddhartha could love his son is because he recognized that he was a part of him? The purpose of Siddhartha the son, in my opinion, is to humble Siddhartha an humanize him. This is evident when Siddhartha the son runs away and Siddhartha goes looking for him. Hesse wrote, “He felt a deep love for the runaway boy, like a wound, and yet felt at the same time that this wound was not intended to fester in him, but that it should heal.” (Hesse 126). The idea that Siddhartha has now experienced loss and love illustrates how he has felt the emotions of regular people, like the child people; although he is still arrogant, he is now more humbled. This allows him to reach enlightenment as he has finally reached a point where he can relate to humanity rather than believing he is better than everyone else. Siddhartha the son allows him to reach his goal and also experience many basic human emotions.
DeleteLike both of you, Siddhartha's relationship with his son brought me back to Siddhartha's relationship with his own father. I found that his refusal to accept and reciprocate love could be summed up on page 5. "He had started feeling that his father's love, and his mother's love, and also his friend Govinda's love would not make him happy and forever always, not please him, not gratify him, not satisfy him" (5). Like both of you mentioned, love was never the goal for Siddhartha, but it is what he ended up chasing when he met his son. I think this goes back to what Hayden said about Siddhartha's son allowing him to reach his goal. His whole journey was about letting go of himself and the only way to really do that is to pour it into someone else.
DeleteI think Siddhartha's son's actions is both a result of the child people and Siddhartha's own actions. While not explicitly stated, Siddhartha's son must have been influenced in some way by the child people while growing up, it is impossible he would have no encounter with any of them, and the way he acts is very reminiscent of the way Siddhartha viewed the child people, defiant and greedy, among other things. Yet at the same time, his actions are also a result of Siddhartha's own actions, where Siddhartha provokes this kind of reaction through his unconditional love and kindness, never punishing his son, only acting in one way. Another interesting point is how Siddhartha feels, "He[Siddhartha] did sense that this love, this blind love for his son, was a passion, something very human, that it was samsara, a troubled wellspring, a dark water" (107). Here Siddhartha realizes he is experiencing something that he has never felt before, but seen in the child people previously, which I connected back to the original point; Siddhartha jr.'s actions are a result of Siddhartha and the child people, but Siddhartha has become in a child person in the way he cares for his son.
DeleteI was re-reading "Om," and suddenly this quote stood out for me.
ReplyDelete"He(Siddhartha) spoke for a long time, and as Vasudeva listened with his still face, Siddhartha felt Vasudeva's listen more strongly than ever before."(111)
At first, I thought Vasudeva as a teacher, who guilds Siddhartha to the enlightenment. Then I read this quote and thought Vasudeva is more than just a teacher. I think he is actually a God figure, and God doesn't necessary mean God in specific religion. When Siddhartha first meet Vasudeva, he was about to fall in sinful life in the city. Siddhartha himself also was little arrogant and full of self-confidence. Later, after Siddhartha dives into the river and rebirth, he meets Vasudeva again and become his friend. This plot seemed to me like Vasudeva saved Siddhartha, as God redeems people. Also, as the quote above shows, Thalidomide often acknowledges new idea after he talks about this thoughts to Vasudeva, This is exactly like the relationship between people and their God. They speak to God and by thinking God is listen to them, they recover their injury of mind and become peaceful. Even more, this process of listening and speaking is the last step toward the enlightenment of Siddhartha. Also, through out the last part of the story, Vasudeva is described as he knows everything about Siddhartha. One example for this is when Vasudeva gives advice to Siddhartha, Siddhartha replies "you have seen into my heart," and later it says, "Vasudeva had told him nothing that he himself had not already thought and know"(101). Vasudeva understands Siddhartha, and in many religions, God is one who knows everything and does what he thinks to lead its believers to the correct path. The relationship between Vasudeva and Siddhartha is very similar to relationship between a person and God.
I think Vasudeva's compared to God to show a person can't guide another one. The book Siddhartha is all about wondering inside of a person's own mind and find perfection from there. Think about Govinda, who tried to reach Om by following Gautama. He failed, while Siddhartha, who only believed himself, succeeded to reach perfection. God is a very personal concept. It is more like how people interpret it and how they accept God, than what actually it is. Based on this idea, Vasudeva is not just a God, but the God of Siddhartha who exist inside of Siddhartha. Therefore, I concluded that portraying image of God to Vasudeva reveals theme that people can find perfection from themselves, and only from themselves.
This really fits into how Hesse reconciled Western and Eastern values into the book. Interesting, because so many of these ideas conflict with each other. Not only that, but it ties in with Siddhartha's thinking in the first chapter. Siddhartha had pondered, "And where was the Atman to be found, where did he dwell, where did his eternal heart beat if not in one's own self, in the innermost, in the indestructible essence that every person bore within?" (Hesse 5) Could we view Siddhartha and Vasudeva as essentially the same person, since Siddhartha pretty much replaced Vasudeva as the ferryman? It's also interesting because the relationship between Siddhartha and Vasudeva reminds me of the relationship between Siddhartha and Govinda, but those can be considered completely different. However, I do find it odd that if Hesse wanted to stress the idea of finding perfection from within oneself, he would use a projection of Siddhartha's own self to show that concept.
DeleteIn reply, I have two ideas. It could be that Vasudeva is the image of a person who Siddhartha has always strived to be for. When Vasudeva says "I have waited for this moment, dear friend." (Hesse 119) Perhaps he was simply created out of Siddhartha's own expectations out of himself.
Another explanation is that Hesse is using Vasudeva to show that guidance, or teaching, can still be a method of attaining enlightenment. Rather than rejecting conformity, I think that Hesse shows us even further that the method to become enlightened, or truly happy, depends on the individual. This is shown when Siddhartha notes that "he saw life, liveliness, indestructibility, Brahma in each of their [the child people's] passions, each of their deeds." (Hesse 114) Everything is dependent on the individual in question, and even the child people can find enlightenment in a lifestyle that Siddhartha used to reject. In other words, Hesse is telling readers that enlightenment can be found with any method, as long as it suits the seeker who is using that method.
After looking back through Siddhartha in preparation for the fishbowl and the in class write, I found a passage that really stood out to me personally. In this section Vasudeva and Siddhartha are talking about the idea that time in non-existent. The passage begins with Siddhartha asking Vasudeva, “Have you also learned that secret from the river; that there is no such thing as time?” (Hesse 106). At first I was extremely confused by this statement; how could an axiom such as time not exist? Hesse’s meaning became clearer as I read on. Vasudeva responded to Siddhartha “ ‘Yes, Siddhartha,’ he said. ‘Is this what you mean? That the river is everywhere at the same time, at the source and at the mouth, at the waterfall, at the ferry, at the current, in the ocean, and in the mountains, everywhere, and the present only exists for it, not the shadow of the past, nor the shadow of the future?’ “ (Hesse 107). I thing Vasudeva’s statements clarifies what Hesse aims to say through this passage. Earlier in the chapter, I interpreted that the river was symbolic of life and humanity as a whole. By writing that the river is everywhere at once, Hesse essentially says that the life is everywhere and flows through the world, interconnected, like a river. Additionally, by including the aspect of time not being real, Hesse implies that life is always recreating and living on; it has existed before us and will continuing existing after us. This idea is also reminiscent of the idea of reincarnation from Buddhism and Hinduism. Furthermore, Hesse’s use of anaphora with the word “at” as the beginning of several phrases creates a meditative and thoughtful tone to the passage. Lastly, I found Hesse’s use of syntax at the end of the passage interesting. Hesse phrases Vasudeva’s responses as a question which shows how Vasudeva looks to be an advisor to Siddhartha who helps him make his own decisions rather than a teacher that makes decisions for him. If anyone has any other interpretations, please respond!
ReplyDeleteI agree that this passage Hesse wrote about time was very powerful and significant in further identifying the symbolism behind the river. The anaphora you talked about is something that I also noticed throughout the book and it was also used right before the passage you discussed. On page 93 and 94, Hesse wrote, "Above all, it taught him how to listen, to listen with a silent heart, with a waiting, open soul, without passion, without desire, without judgement, without opinion." The anaphora here also creates a meditative tone surrounding Siddhartha as Hesse writes about all that he has learned from the river. The river represents the continuity of life shown through it's many aspects and the anaphora, creating the meditative tone through its repetitiveness, helps show how much Siddhartha has already changed and learned from listening to the river and how the river's sacredness and holiness now surrounds him.
DeleteI was thinking about the relationship between Siddhartha and Govinda, and suddenly this passage stood out to me; "Deeply Govinda bowed...and like a fire the feeling of the most ardent of love, the most humble reverence was burning in his heart. Deeply he bowed...whose smile reminded him of everything he had ever loved in all his life, everything that had ever, in all his life, been dear to him and holy."(126). I first thought Siddhartha at this point symbolizes the enlightenment or humanity itself, because that's what Govinda has looked for throughout his entire life. However, it is still odd to me Hesse's diction in this passage, Why does he use words like "ardent love" and "feeling of fire?" As someone mentioned early in the class, Siddhartha refers Govinda consistently throughout the book. He thinks about Govinda when he is with Kamala and Vasudeva. He even has dream about Govinda becomes women. Also, Siddhartha refers Govinda as "beloved one, "dearest friend," or "my Govinda." I'm not necessarily saying Siddhartha is homosexual, but I think there is some feeling is going between Siddhartha and Govinda, because the diction Hesse uses in there conversation is very full of love and adore. It is also true that Siddhartha treats Govinda as just his follower and belittles Govinda in the beginning of the book, but later their relationship become more mutal. For example, Govinda helps Siddharth when he is despaired after he left Kamala, and Siddhartha helps Govinda at the last chapter of the book. So I think the motif of love between Siddhartha and Govinda is not just love but symbolism of something, but I don't know what this relationship could symbolize.
ReplyDeletein addition, the relationship between Siddhartha and Govinda is very interesting to me. I think the initial intention of characterization of Govinda is to contrast him with Shorthand. The book describes Siddhartha as a founder while Govinda as a follower. Considering that Siddhartha reaches the enlightenment while Govinda fails, Hesse contrast this two thinkers to show you can't reach the enlightenment by following others; you must find it from inside of your mind. However, they also love and help each other. This makes me be very confused. Am I the only one thinks like this? Is there anyone has an opinion about this?
(Here is just an additional information outside from the book. My version of the Siddhartha includes the translator's preface, and it says when Siddhartha talks to Govinda, he uses word "Lierber," which literally means "dear one" or "beloved one." in German. I found it is interesting because we don't usually call our friend "beloved one.")
During the Fishbowl, most of the major symbols were brought up and discussed in detail. The songbird, though, I feel like wasn't talked about enough based on its importance. On the surface, the bird clearly represents Siddhartha, and when it is freed by Kamala, this represents the new chapter in his life. But if you look underneath that basic knowledge, you'll find that the cage has a separate meaning. "When she was first informed of Siddhartha's disappearance, she stepped over to the window, where she kept a rare songbird captive in a golden cage." (pg. 68 in my book). I think the golden cage is a symbol of how material goods were holding Siddhartha back. Learning the art of love with Kamala or the way to run a business with Kamaswami wasn't his calling. This blockade, or "golden cage" (gold representing money and material goods) kept him from achieving nirvana. However, this bird was freed and he did attain enlightment, but only from the lowest of lows could he receive the highest of highs.
ReplyDeleteEven after he is set free by Kamala, the songbird reference continues to appear. When he is contemplating suicide, the author describes his thoughts as, "Dead was the songbird of which he had dreamed. Dead was the bird in his heart." (pg. 69). But after being awakened by the river and Vasudeva, the bird is brought up once again, "And yet this path has been very good, and yet the bird in my breast has not died!...you have heard the bird singing in your breast and have followed it!" (pg. 76-77). His coincidental run in with the river saves his life and revives the songbird in his soul. It is mentioned several times following his original encounter with the river, but that changes when Kamala is found hanging onto the last string of her life. After her death, the symbol of the bird isn't discussed again, and I can't help but think, was there still apart of him that wanted to be with Kamala, that little flutter of wings within his chest that wanted his old life full of riches back?
Your insight on this symbol has also made me wonder if Siddhartha did want his old life back. I do believe that he did want his old life back, but it wasn't old Siddhartha himself. Since most of the time, they believed in reincarnation and karma, I believe that his want for his old life is now in young Siddhartha. Which leads me to say that I disagree that the symbol of the bird is gone. It's more or less, transferred into a new being or character. The symbol of the bird does repeat again when Vasudeva is advising old Siddhartha about what to do with young Siddhartha. Vasudeva says to old Siddhartha, "The young bird is used to another life, another kind of nest," (pg 92). Vasudeva is saying that the young Siddhartha is used to a life of riches and that young Siddhartha wants to go back to that. Vasudeva further explains this point in the same passage where he says, "He has not...run away from wealth..."(pg 92). So, yes the symbol of the bird has left old Siddhartha but it has returned once young Siddhartha came. Which means, Siddhartha (young and reincarnated) wants to return to his old life of riches.
DeleteNate, I see your how you believe Hesse is using the symbolism of the golden cage to represent the greed and wealth that is holding Siddhartha back from reaching true enlightenment. However, another way to look at this symbolism of the golden cage would be that the author is trying to show the importance of the songbird. Hesse using symbolism with the songbird to portray Siddhartha's soul and inner peace. By placing the bird in a gold cage, this is showing the reader the importance of this. Think about how society uses gold to represent value. When you treat others the way you want to be treated, we called this "The Golden Rule". If a business appreciates a customer, they give them a "gold card'. When a married couple reaches their 50th anniversary, they celebrate their "Golden Anniversary". I believe the author is trying to relate the value of our inner peace buy inclosing the songbird in gold.
DeleteAlmost all of the changes that Siddhartha goes through are the result of discontent and all are drastic. The one transition that stuck out to me the most was his ‘almost’ suicide attempt by the river.
ReplyDelete“What all the recent torturing, all sobering, all despairing had failed to do was effected by the moment when the om pierced his consciousness: he recognized himself in his misery and his vagary” (79).
I thought that this particular part of the book was more ridiculous than the rest. One moment Siddhartha was ready to give up life and the next he “knew about Brahma, knew about the indestructibility of life, knew again about all the godliness he had forgotten” (79). For me, this passage is about Siddhartha ‘coming full circle.’ Siddhartha had to be close to suicide to realize the indestructibility of life and commit sin in order to know how to live without. In other words, I thought that Hesse used Siddhartha’s drastic change in attitude to let the reader know that you must hit rock bottom before you can reach your best.
Interesting point, as Siddhartha did have intentions of ending his life after he had left Kamala and the child people. It seemed that the word "om", the old and final word of Brahman prayer had appeared out of nowhere. I wonder why this had appeared, and how it was able to frighten him enough to see through his actions. I believe it was because of the way om was presented at the start of the book. "He already knew how to soundlessly speak the om, the word of words, soundlessly speak it into himself, breathing it in, soundlessly speak it out of himself..." (Hesse 3). This can represent the fact that he is already familiar with the voice of om, and will save his life later in the story when he is disillusioned by the materialistic ways of the child people. the way you describe how this can relate to the reader is true, but I would like to know more of more examples of where this takes place, as I am sure that reaching bottom before setting out on top can be common for these types of characters.
DeleteAs i was reading the book again, a quote struck out to me. "But his friend, the brahmin's son Govinda, loved him more than any other. He loved Siddhartha's gaze and his sweet voice, he loved his way of walking and the complete grace of his movements; he loved everything Siddhartha did and said..." (hesse 4) this stood out to me because oh how Govinda seems in love with Siddhartha. this got me thinking about if Herman Hesse was trying to relate Siddhartha's relationship with Govinda to that of a man's feelings and love towards another man (or in simple terms, a gay couple). this realization on how similar the two relationships are makes me wonder if that is why the book became popular in the 1960s. during the 1960s, there was a lot of riots going on, including riots about gay rights. it could be possible that when reading this book, someone could think that Siddhartha and Govinda have intense feelings for each other. this is a possibility but there is the problem of Herman Hesse being Christian. i looked into Hesse's life and found that his marriages did not last. although it does not say anything about Hesse ever having any feelings for a male, one might think that Hesse could harbor secret feelings and could only express these feelings through small gestures in the book. this can be interpreted that Hesse had secret feelings and that the love Govinda has for Siddhartha could be expressed as Hesse trying to express his own feelings for a male in his life.
ReplyDeleteHerman Hesse uses animalistic diction at the end of part one and the beginning of part two to share the transformation from Siddhartha's life with Govinda to his life with Kamala. In Awakening Hesse describes Siddhartha as shivering "...inwardly like a small animal, like a bird or a hare,"(41). As Siddhartha's peaceful life of knowledge with Govinda ends Siddartha enters a more animal like stage in preparation for a sexual life with Kamala. At the end of the chapter, just before Part 2 when he meets Kamala, Siddhartha undergoes a immense change, "...He was overwhelmed by a feeling of icy despair... the last shudder of his awakening, the last pains of birth,"(41-42).This quote touches on the topic of reincarnation. Siddhartha's "birth" represents his new life and his "awakening" represents his newly discovered sexual desires that were dormant during his past life. These sexual desires and animalistic comparisons are further expressed by the author when Siddhartha meets the young woman by the river and she turns into a pig. They also appear when Siddhartha meets Kamala for the first time. Whenever Kamala is mentioned in the book the author almost always mentions how her lips are similar to a fig. For example, "...a bright red mouth like a freshly cut fig..."(51) and "He put his face against hers, placed his lips against hers, which were like that of a freshly cut fig,"(57). While this could be a connection to Siddhartha's impending enlightenment it could also be a nod to Siddhartha's animalistic behavior. Animals are extremely driven by food. Imagine a dog when it is about to receive it's meal; the animal is very aroused and focused on the object of its desire. Siddhartha is like the dog. He is aroused and enticed by the object of his sexual desires; Kamala and her lips. In Samsara when Siddhartha is about to move on to his next life and no longer desires Kamala sexually he refers to her lips without mentioning figs, "...he lay beside her and Kamala's face was near to his, and under her eyes and near the corners of her mouth he could read clearly for the first time a sad sign," (81). Now that Siddhartha's animal like desires have been extinguished by his realization of discontent in his life he is no longer attracted to Kamala and is ready to move on to his next life.
ReplyDeleteWhile discussing the cycle of samsara in my IOP today, we came across the question regarding if Siddhartha truly attained enlightenment at the end. At the end of the chapter "Om," we see that Siddhartha gained some sort of transcendental knowledge from the river, to which Vasudeva said "'I have waited for this moment, dear friend. Now it has come; let me go. I have waited and waited for this moment, I was Vasudeva the ferryman for years and years... Farewell, Siddhartha!'" (Hesse 119). Vasudeva then goes into the forest, "into the oneness." (Hesse 120).
ReplyDeleteThis quote is extremely significant not only because it represents Vasudeva's breaking from the cycle of samsara, but it made me realize that Siddhartha is still in a cycle - the life of a ferryman. Originally I thought that the moment one attained enlightenment, they would be able to attain nirvana, but I never considered what "attaining nirvana" meant. So, I did some research and found that the state called "nirvana" is actually just when you can no longer attain bad karma, and spend the rest of your life (or future lives) working off the accumulated karma. "Parinirvana" is the end of the cycle where you no longer become reincarnated in the afterlife.
So, what was Vasudeva's goal of walking into the forest? Did he die there, and attain parinirvana? Also, if Siddhartha only attained nirvana, that means that he'd presumably spend the rest of his life working as a ferryman to work off the bad karma he had generated in the past. In other words, does Siddhartha's story truly have a resolution? Or should it be considered a resolution because we know that he'll eventually, in some "life," attain parinirvana?
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ReplyDeleteThroughout all of the class discussions, Siddhartha has generally been classified as an arrogant person. The argument for this, usually the fact that Siddhartha "abandoned" many people that were close to him. But at the early beginning of the book, there is a passage that describes how he truly feels, as after it, the narration states "These were Siddhartha's thoughts; this was his thirst; his sorrow." (pg. 8) In the passage, it states that "Siddhartha had begun to feel the seeds of discontent within him. He had begun to feel that the love of his father and mother, and also the love of his friend Govinda, would not always make him happy, give him peace, satisfy and suffice him." (pg. 5) This quote is the justification for Siddhartha leaving the ones that he was close to. Although leaving his family made them sad, Siddhartha believed that discovering the secret to perpetual satisfaction (or in other words, enlightenment) was more important. Siddhartha also believed that everybody should reach this goal for themselves (like Gotama and Vasudeva).
ReplyDeleteOne might also say that, if Siddhartha isn't arrogant, then he's selfish instead (for prioritizing his enlightenment over others' feelings). Siddhartha knew that he was selfish, and he wasn't ashamed of it either. It ultimately came down to what he personally valued more when he was given the options "individual" or "society". He chose the "individual" route. In the end, this option turned out to be better, as he ended up returning to the most important person that he had loved: Govinda. "Govinda bowed low. Incontrollable tears trickled down his old face. He was overwhelmed by a feeling of great love, of the most humble veneration." (pg. 151) Essentially, Siddhartha was just helping himself first before returning to others.
Do you guys think Siddhartha went through his life correctly? Do you think that the story would have ended differently if he had cared more about the ones he was close to?
In my opinion, even though Siddhartha did show an abundance of arrogance throughout the book, his arrogance is not what lead him to leave the people in his life. Siddhartha did prioritize his own goals but that doesn't mean he didn't care about the people in his life like Govinda. I think Siddhartha knew they would be okay without him and believed that finding enlightenment was important for everyone to achieve without being held back by anyone. For example, when Siddhartha first left Govinda, he said, "Govinda, my friend, you have taken the step, you have chosen the path... now you have become a man and are choosing your own path. May you walk to its end, O my friend! May you find deliverance!" (Hesse 29). Siddhartha cares for Govinda, he is excited that he has chosen a different path because he wants him to find enlightenment through his own way even if that means they have to split up. In this scene Siddhartha isn't showing arrogance, he is showing happiness that both him and his beloved friend can go their separate ways to achieve their goals. Therefore, I don't believe the story would've ended differently if Siddhartha had cared more for the people in his life because I think he already cares for them a great deal and would still make the same choices.
DeleteSiddhartha probably would not have taken the same path to enlightenment if he had allowed himself to be influenced by his loved ones’ emotions; in fact, if he had decided to stay with the Brahmins, the Samanas, or Gotama, he might never have reached true enlightenment at all. A more empathetic individual possibly could have learned from the mistakes of others and achieved inner peace even within the bounds of society, but Siddhartha, who could not identify with most of his fellow human beings -- not blindly dedicated ascetics, not the so-called “child people” -- had to experience everything for himself. In fact, after abandoning the materialistic world of Kamaswami in “By the River,” Siddhartha realizes that his years in that world have led him to understand “not only with my intellect, but with my eyes, with my heart, with my stomach” (Hesse 80) that wealth cannot bring anyone true happiness or inner peace. This quote also suggests that Siddhartha's distanced intellectual attitude has put him at a disadvantage in his quest for enlightenment. In the end, if Siddhartha had not experienced the “soul sickness of the rich” (63) firsthand, he would never have fully grasped the importance of detachment from the physical world; he probably would have found the self-denial of asceticism meaningless without an understanding of the opposite lifestyle.
DeleteIn addition, because Siddhartha is a didactic novel that explores many unfulfilling philosophies in sequence before arriving at the “ideal” lifestyle (represented by Siddhartha's calm, humble life as a ferryman), the plot requires an ambitious, determined, detached protagonist whose main motivation is a search for enlightenment. Siddhartha's exaggerated individualism, which has allowed him to move among castes and communities with a certain level of freedom, gives Hesse the ability to depict many different conceptions of reality from the same perspective. However, I don't believe that Hesse intended to portray Siddhartha's ruthless attitude or his final lifestyle as ideals for the reader to emulate; instead, Siddhartha's journey could be interpreted metaphorically, as a dramatic demonstration of the importance of mental and spiritual balance. Hesse presents Siddhartha not as an idealized hero but as a flawed character who gradually discovers universal truths. When Siddhartha finally recognizes and overcomes many of his flaws in “Om,” his assertion that “these ordinary people were his brothers” creates a strong, surprising contrast when compared with his former arrogance. Throughout the novel, Siddhartha's egotistical nature gave him room for drastic character development through experimentation, allowing the reader to understand Hesse's message with greater clarity. I think Siddhartha would not be Siddhartha if he didn't have to get over his contempt for humanity; his selfishness was necessary for the story to function.
Belinda's IOP inspired me to look into the cycles of samsara. I felt that this quote exemplified the asuras, or the demon realm. "And yet he [Siddhartha] envied them, envied them all the more the more he resembled them.He envied them for the one thing he lacked and that they had:the importance they were able to place on their lives, the passionateness of their joys and fears, the queasy but sweet happiness of being eternally in love" (69). I thought that this quote clearly showed how Siddhartha wanted to be superior while also feeling a sort of pity for himself. What was especially interesting to me, was Siddhartha's own feelings throughout the book: he's always praised, looked up to, or otherwise felt in high regard, yet he himself always feels inferior or is longing for something others seem to find easily. This really resonated with the idea that Belinda presented, how Hesse uses certain devices to make the story and Siddhartha relatable. In this case, one might find it difficult to relate to Siddhartha because he is always so great, praised or found to be destined for greatness, yet even someone like Siddhartha struggles with jealousy and desire, as well as feelings of inferiority to others, including those he feels are lesser than himself. This then makes it much easier to relate to him because Siddhartha is portrayed in a light different from the infallible Siddhartha. Overall I thought Siddhartha was fairly relatable even through his stubborn, determined, egotistical self, though it took some deeper looking in to to find connections like these, and not just taking the face value or his emotions and desires.
ReplyDeleteRereading "Govinda," I noticed that Siddhartha ends on a somewhat unstable note because Govinda's quest for enlightenment is never resolved. The fact that Siddhartha and Govinda presumably start living together again in their later years does provide the reader with a certain amount of closure, but Siddhartha's final scene reveals that the unequal nature of their relationship has not changed.
ReplyDeleteEven when Govinda experiences his final epiphany, in which he discovers the unity of all life in Siddhartha's peaceful smile, Govinda knows that he is merely seeing enlightenment from the outside; he catches a glimpse of the world through Siddhartha's beautiful perspective, but he knows that it is not his own. Hesse describes the vision as separated from Govinda's inner being by "something thin, unreal and yet existing, stretched across like thin glass or ice, like a transparent skin, shell, form or mask of water -- and this mask was Siddhartha's smiling face which Govinda touched with his lips at that moment" (Hesse 122). This "shell" or "mask represents a layer of false spiritual understanding, the final layer of the darkness that obscures the pure glow of enlightenment. Because this description is from Govinda's point of view, the contradictory phrase "unreal and yet existing" suggests Govinda's unwillingness to acknowledge the distance between his mind and Siddhartha's. The repetition of the word "mask" (a word with strong negative associations to hollowness, deception, and even fear) implies that Govinda's thoughts are fixated on this distance. I also found it interesting that the Hesse's use of anaphora in this scene is less regular than in the rest of the narration; the sentence structures are also generally simpler, as in "Govinda bowed low. Incontrollable tears trickled down his old face" (122). The anaphora in the description of Siddhartha’s face (discussed above) also does not have the even pattern that most of the narration from Siddhartha’s perspective has. As a whole, the symbolism and the subtly uneven diction in this section suggest that Govinda’s mindset is less confident and less stable than Siddhartha’s.
I also noticed that the final image in Siddhartha is that of Govinda weeping quietly and kneeling in front of Siddhartha, “overwhelmed by a feeling of great love, of the most humble veneration” (122); this strongly emotional tableau reveals that Hesse has probably reintroduced Govinda in order to use his continued struggle as a contrast to Siddhartha’s inner peace and completeness. Govinda’s appearance at this point in the book also allows the reader to revisit a character more “human” in his weaknesses and indecision than Siddhartha, implying that the reader should see the reformed Siddhartha as a spiritual role model. I personally saw Govinda’s unfinished journey as a somewhat tragic story because Govinda appears to be condemned to the role of Siddhartha’s “shadow,” to a life of inferiority and admiration rather than self-realization, despite all his earnest strivings.
I also noticed that this chapter and the first chapter ("The Brahmin's Son") are the only parts of Siddhartha with any narration from Govinda's perspective. Why do you think Hesse chose to return to Govinda's POV instead of focusing on the "perfected" ultimate state of our triumphant hero, Siddhartha? Is the effect of viewing Siddhartha’s life and accomplishments from a distance powerful enough to merit this departure from the main perspective, or would it have been better to give Siddhartha the final word?
From the fishbowl discussion, an interesting symbol was pointed out to me. The symbol of smiling introduced a very important aspect of the book. Throughout the book there are not many occasions where the characters are described as smiling. Each moment where Hesse writes that a character is smiling is a significant part of the book representing that the character has achieved enlightenment. The rare use of this symbol shows the readers the significance of those passages where the characters inner happiness is shown. On page 27, the first description of Gautama says, "His silent face was neither cheerful nor woeful: he seemed to be smiling inwardly. With a calm, silent, hidden smile not unlike a healthy child's, the Buddha walked..." (Hesse). The Buddha is the first man Siddhartha has witnessed that has shown to be enlightened. His enlightenment and sacredness is represented in this passage through his smile. Where it states he was "smiling inwardly" also shows that smiling is achieved when you find inner peace and happiness. The next smile Siddhartha encounters is on Vasudeva's face. After, Siddhartha has started the next part of his journey after leaving Govinda he takes a ride on the ferry and first meets the ferryman. They talk for a little bit and as Siddhartha leaves it says, "Smiling, they parted. Smiling, Siddhartha was delighted with the ferryman's friendship and friendliness" (Hesse 46). The smiling is emphasized around Vasudeva, who later is shown to be enlightened. Again, only the truly blissful people have been shown to smile and in this point of the book Siddhartha shows his happiness about the ferryman's generosity. When Siddhartha, at the end of the book, finally reaches his enlightenment, the symbol of smiling occurs again. On page 119, it says, "Bright shone his smile when he looked at his friend, and bright now glowed the very same smile on Siddhartha's face" (Hesse). The smiles on both of their faces are described as radiant and glowing showing how the enlightenment is now within both Vasudeva and Siddhartha. Overall the symbol of smiling is used by Hesse to really show the inner happiness that is found in enlightenment. Did anyone else find other significant parts in the book where smiling occurs? Does anyone find a different aspect of this symbol that helps identify the characters?
ReplyDeleteOne thing I noticed while reading Siddhartha was the use of third person. Just before Siddhartha leaves to join the Samanas he speaks to Govinda, "'Tomorrow morning, my friend, Siddhartha is going to join the Samanas. He is going to become a Samana,'"(9). Throughout the book third person is used to show Siddhartha's progress on his path to enlightenment. In the quote on page nine Siddhartha is early on in his quest to find himself and enlightenment. Therefore he refers to himself in third person. Later in the book when Siddhartha is further on his quest and is more connected to himself the main character's use of third person is less frequent. A example of this is found on page 38, "I will no longer study Yoga-Veda, Atharva-Veda, or ascesticism, or any other teachings. I will learn from myself, be my own pupil..."(38). Siddhartha no longer refers to himself in the third person as the book goes on because he has formed more of a connection with himself. Through the growth of this connection Siddhartha comes closer to reaching enlightenment.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Fiona to an extent, but I wish to elaborate on the use of third person by Hesse in the novel. When third person is used in "The Brahmin's Son", I believe it used to characterize Siddhartha as a weak individual, one who is a lesser being in comparison to those who are enlightened. He is unable to connect with his inner self at this time, and therefore refers to this inner conscience as an entirely separate entity. During this time, Siddhartha is very arrogant and nature. As it is shown throughout the book, this arrogance is a major factor in leading his demise, and a major obstacle in his path to achieving enlightenment. Third person is used occasionally as well in "With the Shramanas", also a time when Siddhartha was arrogant in his nature, and overall a sinful individual. As the story progresses however into the later chapters, and Siddhartha nears achieving enlightenment this use of third person becomes almost non-existent. This is a way of Hesse to further exemplify his ideals, in which as Siddhartha's arrogance and sinfulness starts to fade, his connections with his inner soul inversely are intensified. Siddhartha begins to become one with his soul and his conscience. As Siddhartha becomes connected with his inner self, he also begins to see the path to enlightenment. The use of third person is simply another tool used by Hesse to present the theme: the ideal that one can only find enlightenment or success in life, by ridding oneself from the atrocities that are greed and arrogance.
DeleteI agree with your idea in the sense of the use of third person. From the beginning of the book to when Siddartha comes close to finding enlightenment he uses third person by referring to himself to himself in third person it shows how the character is dettached from his actual self or being. I feel like enlightenment wasn't the only object he had to overcome to find himself. One of the biggest objects Siddartha has to overcome was beginning to trust and rely on him self and other instead of questioning the world. For instance, "Quote 30: "Therefore, it seems to me that everything that exists is good - death as well as life, sin as well as holiness, wisdom as well as folly. Everything is necessary, everything needs only my agreement, my assent, my loving understanding; then all is well with me and nothing can harm me...I needed lust to strive for property...to learn not to resist them." (116) Once Siddartha comes to te sense that the world is good and comes to enlightenment I feel that he finally fines himself.
DeleteDuring one of the IOP’s, the reoccurring symbol of a bird was brought up and how it changed during each stage of Siddhartha’s life. I noticed the song bird and its meaning when Kamala released it from its cage, but I never saw how a different type of bird represented the stages he goes through in his journey to enlightenment.
ReplyDeleteThe first bird used to represent Siddhartha is the falcon, “…in the shade of the banyan fig Siddhartha grew up, the handsome son of the Brahmin, the young falcon…” (Hesse 5). Falcons are commonly known to be elegant, but speedy hunters. During his childhood, Siddhartha was referred to as a very handsome boy, just like a falcon.
The second bird used to illustrate Siddhartha was the heron, which was Hesse described as, “A heron flew over the bamboo forest – and Siddhartha took the heron into his soul…” (Hesse 14). A heron is a wading bird, and in this part of the book, Siddhartha is wading through the beliefs of the shramanas.
The third bird is the owl, the bird of wisdom. It foreshadows a dark path for Siddhartha, “…deep in the woods the euphonious dark call of an owl sounded.” (Hesse 41). The owl was warning him that the path of material goods and money is not for him, but Siddhartha continued anyway. He eventually had the intelligence to abandon his life with Kamala, leading into the final bird.
The last bird used to represent Siddhartha is the song bird. It was mentioned numerous times beforehand, but following Kamala’s release of it from its golden cage, the bird becomes more noticeable, “…and yet the bird in my breast has not died…you have heard the bird singing in your breast and have followed it!” (Hesse 76-77). He is now free from his life in the city and can reach enlightenment with the river.
All the characters except Kamaswami have spiritual desires and seek enlightenment. This includes various spiritual routes and paths. For instance Siddarthas father the Bramin continues on his traditional sacrificial rituals. Govinda becomes a follower of Buddah, as does Kamala. And than most importantly Siddartha, is the most determined to become enlightened and follow his own path. By his curis self he goes through all the paths but by the end decides to create his own. I find that this is important because it allows him to endure all the evil (or 7 deadly sins) in the world to understand that material objects aren't eternal and to force him to rely on himself. For instance, "Slowly, like moisture entering the dying tree trunk...so did the world and inertia creep into Siddarthas soul; it slowly filled his soul, made it heavy, made it tired, sent it to sleep. But on the other hand his senses became more awakened, they learned a great deal, experienced a great deal" (61). In this quote it allows the reader to understand the important a of Siddarthas right of passage. His path to enlightenment isn't getting there but actual the journey and the lessons he goes through. It allows him to truly understand the world and his place in it.
ReplyDeleteFor this post I will be elaborating on the metaphor of children that is so commonly mentioned in the book. Although this is a fairly simple concept, I feel as if this is a very important part of the book. In Siddhartha, the metaphor of children is used as a juxtaposition to those who are enlightened. Much like children, these individuals are careless in their ways and ignorant to the true nature of life. This is the complete opposite of those who are enlightened, who are knowledgeable about the comings and goings of life. This idea is recurring throughout the novel. One enormous example is within the title of the chapter, "Among the Child People". These people referred to throughout the chapter, are so entranced in their own ways, entrenched in their own lives and the sinfulness that they live in, that they are oblivious to the important parts of life in which Siddhartha attempts to preach. This idea is again used throughout the chapter, for example as Hesse states,"He envied them [for]... like children, the sense of importance with which they lived their lives" (Hesse 59 in my book). These individuals are petty in their actions, as they are constantly indulged in solely their lives. Unlike, those who are enlightened, or on the path to enlightenment, these individuals have a hood of sin cast over the top of them, blocking any sight to the path to enlightenment The children are also a symbol in the theme that Hesse attempts to present throughout the novel. The children are symbolic of the average person in American society. These people are unaware of the truly significant parts of life, and therefore fall short as a whole. The children are simply another tool used by Hesse to present the theme, that by ridding oneself of the sins of life, the path to success and enlightenment is made clear. Does anyone have any other variations in their interpretation of the metaphor and symbol of children used in Siddhartha?
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ReplyDeleteThe quote that stood out to me the most throughout the book was on page 94 where Hermann Hesse writes,"Is this what you mean: that the river is everywhere at once, at its source and at its mouth, at the waterfall, at the ferry ... everywhere at once, and only the present exists for it, and not the shadow of the future?". As we talked about multiple times in class, the river was a very important part in Siddhartha and his enlightenment. The river was the ultimate teacher and the last step to his happiness. From this quote I began to look at the river in a different way. I believed that Siddhartha found his happiness through the river because of three major qualities that no other teacher had: the ability to always be there whenever Siddhartha desired it, the ability to never die, and the fact that its always changing meaning that you can always learn from it. From my first point, all of his past teachers did have time for others yes, but were they always there for each individual 24/7? No, they were not, and in comparison the river is there at all times which gives Siddhartha the advantage of being able to learn from it at a higher and more emotional level than to just see a teacher one on one once a day if lucky. Secondly, with Siddhartha's teachers, being that they were human beings, they will die at some point or another. If they die then the teachings will no longer be the same as what they were, instead they will be a version that is based off of another persons views. Granted that they will be similar, but never the exact same. Lastly, as I stated earlier, the river is always changing, giving you different things to learn about each time. With this you can learn so much more than just learning from a pre written way of life that will always stay the same no matter what. To conclude my thinking, I truly believe that Siddhartha found the river to be his final teacher because it was capable of non-human characteristics that gave him a more excellerated path to finding enlightenment.
ReplyDeleteI agree completely. I would also like to touch on how the river represents change throughout the book. Whenever Siddhartha is about to enter a new stage of learning he come in contact with the river. He meets the river and Vasudeva for the first time on page 48 just after Siddhartha and Govinda have parted ways and just before he begins learning from Kamala and Kamaswami. Siddhartha reunites with the river on page 88 after he leaves his life with Kamala and the child people. He is also by the river when he reaches enlightenment on page 134. Siddhartha's life is much like how Cassie described the river: always in a state of change. To clearly state this Hermann Hesse uses the symbolism of the river to express to the reader that Siddhartha is about to experience great change.
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ReplyDeleteOne of the most interesting passages in Siddhartha, in my opinion, was the metaphorical passage on the stone in “Govinda” (Hesse 145). After Belinda’s IOP, I became more aware of the cycle of Samsara throughout the novel. This passage clearly illustrates this cycle as the stone, which represents one’s soul, can transform into soil or “ become plant, animal, or man” (Hesse 145). This demonstrates the idea that like in Samsara, something as simple and plain as a stone can transform into something important or at least more significant than its previous form. This sets a tone of hopefulness with the soft diction of the assonance of the “a” sound. Furthermore, this illustrates an idea for humanity that anyone can improve himself or herself because of Hesse’s idea that the stone, which is really one’s soul, can be something other than a lifeless stone and become something living, such as a plant, animal, or man. Additionally, Hesse conveys the thought that everything on earth has worth by writing, “I see value and meaning in each one of its fine markings and cavities, in the yellow, in the gray, in the hardness and the sound of it when I knock it, in the dryness or dampness of its surface” (Hesse 145). The juxtaposition of the positive diction of the words value, meaning, and fine and the negative diction of cavities, gray, hardness, and dampness among others, creates a thoughtful tone due the contrast. This also communicates Hesse’s view that there is beauty in everything on earth, it may not be on the surface, but it exists and will be seen by someone. In addition to illustrating ideas of Samsara, this passage also characterizes Siddhartha. In the beginning of the novel, Siddhartha often referred to himself in third person, exhibiting a disassociation from himself and uncertainty in his identity. Conversely, in this passage, there is anaphora with the word “I.” It is used to start many sentences in addition to being used within sentences. In the context of him explaining this abstract concept to Govinda, it creates a tone of self-confidence and certainty in ones identity. In consideration with the metaphor of the stone representing Samsara and the transformation of ones soul, Hesse displays the idea that if one becomes sure of themself, he or she can achieve his or her goals. I thought this was one of the most thought provoking and interesting passages in Siddhartha.
ReplyDeleteNote: I have an alternate copy so the page numbers may be different
The passage that impacted me the most was when Vasudeva spoke to Siddhartha after Siddhartha had asked Vasudeva if Vasudeva would accept him to be his apprentice. Vasudeva tells Siddhartha, "...you have already learned from the river that it is good to aim low..." (pg. 82). Growing in a society that values goals and dreams made this quote taboo yet somewhat inspiring. It's rare for a person to be giving advice to not reach for their goals. Siddhartha may have felt the same way as most people of the American society may have felt: confused, shocked, or maybe even betrayed. Vasudeva was not very close with Siddhartha before this instance so the feeling of betrayal may be an over exaggeration, but This made me feel confused but the inspiration it made me feel made it all the more confusing. Aiming low to reach a high standard makes it sound ineffective or just crazy, but to me, it means that you don't have to aim high to get high. you can aim low to get high. By this, i mean, you don't have to be a billionaire to be happy, but you can be a middle class man with a family and still be happy.
ReplyDeleteFlloyd brings up a interesting piece of textual evidence from page 82, especially after Jenny's IOP today. Throughout the novel Siddhartha constantly breaks the caste system and the status quo. He does this by leaving his life as a Brahmin to become a Samana. Aiming low to achieve a high goal is a driving factor as to why the book became so popular during the 1960's. During this time period many young people left their ordinary lives to become "Hippies" which can be compared to the Samanas of Siddhartha's world. The Hippies of the 1960's left their families to reach enlightenment much like Siddhartha. By aiming low and rejecting the caste system Siddhartha managed to reach enlightment. The Hippies tried to achieve the same fate by refusing their place in society and the cultural revolution of the 60's.
DeleteFrom the IOP, a good point was brought to my attention. The symbolic use of birds throughout Siddartha life and journey to enlightenment. I feel like the use of birds were used because the idea of freedom and growth Siddartha faced. For instance the most recalled moment Hesses uses a bird is, the songbird during Siddarthas interaction with the child people. The songbird is used because it is known to be the inner voice, which vowed to listen as he explores the sensual side of himself. This is useful in the sense that it compares Siddartha as the samana and Siddartha as the business man who is idolizes material goods. For instance, "What could I say to you that would be of value, except that perhaps you seek too much, that as a result of your seeking you cannot find" (61). This is an important quote because it shows how Siddartha is understand how consuming the wrong things isn't sucess and won't allow him to come closer to enlightenment but instead fall behind his goals.
ReplyDeleteI was rereading the final chapter, Govinda, when part of a conversation between Siddhartha and Govinda stuck out to me. Govinda had asked Siddhartha for any insights that he is willing to share. The only thing Siddhartha could tell him is that "The opposite of every truth is just as true! You see: A truth can be uttered and clad in words only if it is one-sided. One-sided is everything that can be thought with thoughts and said in words-everything one sided, everything half, everything void of wholeness, of roundness, of oneness"(124). At first the idea that the opposite of every truth is just as true seems absurd. Essentially, Siddhartha is saying that there is a second side to everything. A generalized example of this is the idea of good and bad. No one would know what good is without the bad and vice versa. In order to reach this conclusion, Siddhartha had to experience both sides. Siddhartha was exposed to the 'bad' in the world during his days of lust and gambling. This is another example of why Siddhartha had to reach his worst in order to find enlightenment.
ReplyDeleteAnother moment that made me wonder was when Siddhartha left Govinda. He left Govinda as Govinda became a disciple of the Exalted One or the Buddha. His parting words were "Tomorrow, Govinda, I will leave you," (pg 25). Siddhartha seems to blandly state this sentence in the end, as if he wanted to leave his friend. They have been through so much together, yet Siddhartha discards of him, making Govinda seem like a burden to Siddhartha. This makes me feel that friendships are not important, but they are. Especially in the American society. Friendships are cherished by us so reading that makes it hard to believe that Siddhartha is so willing to leave his past. Which leads me to wonder, what is friendship?
ReplyDeleteI agree with you Flloyd, and I believe Hesse is attempting to critique American society in this passage. Like as stated in Corvyn's IOP, Hesse is really trying to present the idea that one must learn from their inner self, not from others or teachers. Hesse is attempting to comment on the extremely social nature of America as a whole. Today Americans are in desperate need to communicate with each other, and are almost dependent on others constantly in our everyday lives. Gone are the days where one is independent in what they are doing, and how they are living. Americans are unable to live and strive without the assistance of many others in their life. These "friendships" that we have in our lives, are only holding us back from reaching our true potential or "enlightenment". Siddhartha realized this throughout the book, as he left his father and the Brahmins, then the samanas, then Gotama, then Kamala and Kamaswami. Siddhartha realized that he must work within himself, without the help of teachers or others in order to find enlightenment. Furthermore, Hesse is really attempting to illuminate the idea that friendships and relationships, things that many Americans believe are crucial, are actually hindrances in one's life, and the reader must rid oneself of them to truly be successful in their life.
DeleteThis passage, where Siddhartha leaves Govinda, also stood out to me a lot for same reasons. It led me to a similar question: What does friendship mean to Siddhartha? I think that Siddhartha didn't actually want to leave Govinda; rather, he was trying to push Govinda to follow his own path, even if that meant sacrificing their close relationship. After telling Govinda that he is leaving him, Siddhartha says "Now you have become a man and are choosing your own path," and he says this "in a voice without mockery," (29). This exists in contrast to the conversations Siddhartha and Govinda share in the previous chapter where Siddhartha speaks "in a voice containing as much sadness as mockery," (18). When I first read that Siddhartha was planning on leaving his best friend, I presumed it was a step backwards in their friendship, however I now see that it was actually a step forward since Siddhartha now has a new found respect for Govinda. Siddhartha is actually the best friend anyone could ask for in the sense that he sacrificed his friendship with Govinda in order to encourage Govinda down his own path, instead of enabling him to remain as a follower of others. This is a major sacrifice that not even Govinda was willing to make at first, but Siddhartha knew what was best for his friend. Also, if you think about it, their friendship was not sacrificed at all because the two times they are reunited, they still interact as if they are still the best of friends. I think the act of Siddhartha leaving Govinda to follow his own path represents the idea that enlightenment must come from within. While other people may help you along the way, like Siddhartha did for Govinda, enlightenment must ultimately be achieved on one's own.
DeleteThough I had always saw Siddhartha as a very driven person, through out the book, I seemed to find my self constantly questioning the frivolous way that Siddhartha seems to leave behind things. One of the questions that I found myself asking a lot, was if Siddhartha was truly aware of his flaws, or indecisiveness. A passage that stood out to me was, "If you toss a stone into water, it takes the swiftest way to the bottom. And Siddhartha is like that when he has a goal, makes a resolve. Siddhartha does nothing, he waits, he thinks, he fasts, but he passes through the things of the world like the stone through the water, never acting, never stirring" (56). I found this passage very contradicting to Siddhartha's character. In attempts to reach enlightenment, Siddhartha leaves to take many new paths. I understand that he is trying to find the, "swiftest way to the bottom", but what confuses me is the part of, "never stirring". Siddhartha tends to change his mind so often, that it is difficult to see a path at all. This irony of the character saying this, makes me wonder whether Siddhartha sees his flaws at all?
ReplyDeleteI agree with your statement that this sentence contradicts with the way that Siddhartha appears in the story. In the story, Hesse describes Siddhartha as a person who is always changing his mind, moving through his different "lives". I think that Siddhartha does not see his flaws because if he did then it would cause me to wonder why he makes the decisions that he makes. If he saw his flaws then I think that he would have chosen one of his lives and tried to find enlightenment through only that life.
DeleteI think Siddhartha is so set on reaching enlightenment that making time for his flaws are almost impossible not because he wants to refuse them but its only because he has no time and part of reaching enlightenment means that you must not have any flaws because once you reach enlightenment, in theory, you are perfect right? But that's just my opinion I could be completely wrong.
DeleteA passage that I thought was interesting was the passage where Siddhartha is describing his soul as being a potter's wheel. This part is on page 68 and says, "The potter's wheel, once set in motion, keeps spinning and spinning, and only gradually slackens and comes to a halt; and likewise, in Siddhartha's soul, the wheel of asceticism, the wheel of thinking, the wheel of discrimination had kept turning and turning, was still turning, but was now sluggish and hesitant and on the verge of halting." I thought that this was interesting because I would not have made the connection of his soul to a potter's wheel and this was a sad way to look at his soul. This is because he is not giving his soul a sense of happiness but more a sense of laziness and sadness. He is not looking at his soul in a good way, it is more of a depressing way to look at himself. This quote can also be connected to one of the Seven Deadly Sins. The sin that this would be connected to would be laziness. This is because the passage is saying that the wheel is slowly stopping in a sluggish way, which is a word that is connected to being lazy.
ReplyDeleteA passage I found really interesting was in chapter 12 on the last few pages of the book (130-131 in my book). After Govinda is kissed on the forehead by Siddhartha, who has now reached enlightenment, Govinda sees images of many faces. One image from this passage that I found particularly interesting was that Govinda "saw the face of a newborn child, red and wrinkled". I find it strange that Govinda saw a child in Siddhartha, who had reached enlightenment, even though children were what Siddhartha used to describe the things furthest from enlightenment. I think Hesse may have been making a point about how the oblivious nature of children may not necessarily be a bad thing. Throughout the book, Siddhartha seems to think that because children lack experience, they are oblivious to the world, which would seemingly make them more shrouded by Maya, the illusion of individuality and self importance, and would make it impossible for them to reach enlightenment. However, because of this inexperience, they are more innocent. Children have not seen or experienced as many things, their lives are very simple and so they are very innocent. While this does make them more oblivious, it also means they have not garnered any negative karma, so they still have potential to be something great, or even to reach enlightenment. My question is, why do YOU guys think Hesse would refer to Siddhartha as a child after reaching enlightenment, even though the word was used to describe the opposite throughout the book?
ReplyDeleteHesse may have referred to Siddhartha as "childlike" in the final chapters because Siddhartha's journey, as a whole, gradually eliminates all of the layers of cynicism and superiority that he possessed even as a young man, ultimately leaving him with a child's curiosity, empathy, and openness. Buddhist teachings state that there are three stages of life, which can be described as that of the student, the family man, and the renunciate/monk. Interestingly enough, Siddhartha experiences these three lifestyles in reverse order; he begins his adult life as an ascetic, then rejoins society (becoming one of the "Kamaswami people"), and eventually retreats from the world to become a student of Vasudeva and the river. After speaking with Govinda in "By the River," Siddhartha reveals that he is aware of his path's uniqueness, observing that "through many deviations [he] changed from a man into a child...from a thinker into an ordinary person" (Hesse 78). Despite his prior disdain for "ordinary" people, Siddhartha begins to understand the value of his experiences and to realize that other people struggle with similar problems. Later, after his son's difficult departure, Siddhartha finally comes to terms with the fact that he, too, is affected by human emotions, suggesting that his sense of superiority was "the childish self-flattery of thinkers, who were perhaps only thinking children" (106). Ultimately, the description of Siddhartha as a child reveals that Siddhartha no longer considers himself above the rest of the population; he recognizes himself as a child among children, and he is at peace with that position.
DeleteAnother passage I found really interesting was in the beginning of the chapter "The Ferryman" (pages 90-91), when Siddhartha meets Vasudeva for a second time, and asks to become his assistant. One piece of this passage that struck me as really important was when Siddhartha "remembered that once, on that last day of his samana period, love for this man had stirred in his heart". The reason I find this piece so important is because Siddhartha seems to only feel this almost automatic love one other time, and it is when he first meets Gautama. I think the reason Hesse created this similarity was to foreshadow that Vasudeva would eventually bring Siddhartha to enlightenment. By creating the similarity between Gautama and Vasudeva in which Siddhartha (a somewhat egotistical person) feels love for the two after only briefly meeting them, Hesse stages Vasudeva as not only a great teacher similar to Gautama, but also as someone who has reached enlightenment himself, which leads the reader to believe that he will be the final teacher for Siddhartha along his path. This is also reminiscent of how Siddhartha is described in the beginning of the story, and how many village people and even Siddhartha's own family often experience a feeling of love just from seeing him walk by. I think that Hesse uses this sort of non-lustful love at first site to symbolize characters that have or will become enlightened.
ReplyDeleteIn the novel Siddhartha, Hesse cleverly uses symbolism in names to represent the obstacles that Siddhartha must overcome throughout his journey. While researching for my IOP, I learned about the four goals of Hinduism, two of which are called Kama and Artha. The first goal, Kama, represents the pursuit of physical desire, or more namely, the pursuit of love. For Siddhartha, love is a sensitive topic and a difficult concept for him to overcome throughout the novel. His struggle shows towards the end of the chapter, Among the Child People, in which he says to Kamala, "Perhaps people like us cannot love. The child people can; that is their secret," (65). Siddhartha believes that love is only for the child people, or the simple-minded. These people are simple-minded in the sense that they are stuck their whole lives in pursuit of love, or the goal Kama. Because they are stuck trying to attain Kama, they are unable to pursue the other goals of life. Kamala's name stems from the word Kama because she represents this sort of simple-mindedness in Siddhartha's life. Siddhartha spends countless years in pursuit of her love and never does he actually tame it. During those many years that he spends in pursuit of her love, or in pursuit of Kama, he is unable to focus on his other goals, which shows in the lack of enlightenment he receives throughout his life among the child people. The second goal, artha, is what the name Siddhartha stems from, however this name refers not to the main character Siddhartha, but Siddhartha the son. Essentially, artha is the pursuit of wealth and power, or in short, success. Ironically, it isn't until after Siddhartha leaves his life as a wealthy landowner and settles in a modest life by the river that he encounters the goal of wealth. At first, Siddhartha "had felt rich and happy when the boy had come to him," (103) but he soon realizes that "the eleven-year-old was a pampered boy, brought up in the habits of wealth," (103) and that his son is only a painful reminder of his past. It doesn't take long for Siddhartha to understand that the richness he initially felt when meeting his son is not the kind of richness that brings contentment to his life. Because adult Siddhartha's goals do not lie in the pursuit of wealth, he must learn to overcome artha, even if it involves letting his son go, whose name and upbringing represent artha itself. I thought that Hesse's use of symbolism in names was very clever and I never would've noticed this particular symbolism had I not researched the four goals of Hinduism.
ReplyDeleteI wanted to talk a bit more about what I found to be the most puzzling passage in the novel, where a woman tries to seduce Siddhartha next to a stream. Siddhartha almost has sex with the woman after she puts her foot on his, even going so far as to " [bend] down over the woman and [kiss] the brown tip of her breast with his lips" (41). He decides not to after he stops seeing her as a woman and begins seeing "the moist gaze of a rutting female animal" (41). This passage made little sense to me at first, but after thinking about it, it is about Siddhartha’s quest for love in the ensuing chapters. This occurs directly before Siddhartha meets Kamala, who he begins a long sexual relationship with. What Siddhartha is rejecting in his encounter with the woman is not sex itself, but sex that is done without an emotional connection between the participants. Siddhartha begins his relationship with Kamala not just for sex, although sex is certainly one component of the relationship, but also for the emotional aspect of sex, the part that turns procreation into love making. This passage has become one of my favorites in the book because it appears like such a non sequitur at first, but actually foreshadows one of the most important parts of Siddhartha’s journey towards enlightenment. It foreshadows the relationship with Kamala by reflecting Siddhartha’s desire for sex but also his rejection of recreational sex, two conditions which lead to his pursuit of Kamala. This subtle foreshadowing is what makes the passage so enjoyable for the reader and what has made it one of my favorites in the book.
ReplyDeleteOne passage that stood out to me while I revisiting parts of the book was the first paragraph of the fourth chapter, Awakening. It begins right as Siddhartha leaves the grove after speaking with Buddha, "When he left the grove, where the Buddha, the Perfect One, remained, where Govinda remained, Siddhartha felt his previous life too was remaining behind in this grove and separating from him" (35). I found it not only interesting how Siddhartha's character was revealed here in the way he reacts to the insight Buddha gave him. At first I found it a bit hard to believe one single individual person could have such an impact with just a small discussion, even if it was some person as important or influential as the Buddha himself, but I then realized that's the exactly the point. Siddhartha isn't meant to be easily recognized with, he takes a path not many could take and goes on a journey with determination some can't even fathom, and this is just another example of who Siddhartha truly is. He believes he is going through a transformation, leaving his previous life in the grove and separating from it. At the same time, this shows how naive Siddhartha is, thinking he can just leave behind his previous life instead of keeping it as a part of himself and learning from it, a lesson he learns later in the book when he becomes a merchant and is said to have completely disattached from the ways of the semanas. Overall I just found this passage interesting because I felt at first glance, a reader may get some insight into Siddhartha, but after revisiting the book I found connections throughout the book, such as the one here compared to his life as a merchant, which is also representative of how Siddhartha is always learning and the cyclical nature of the book, how everything comes together and connects.
ReplyDeleteIn Siddhartha we have a narrator say “So she thoroughly taught him that one cannot take pleasure without giving pleasure, and that every gesture, every caress, every touch, every glance, every last bit of the body has its secret, which brings happiness to the person who knows how to wake it. She taught him that after a celebration of love the lovers should not part without admiring each other, without being conquered or having conquered, so that neither is bleak or glutted or has the bad feeling of being used or misused.” Do you guys think that Hesse puts this in the book with no deeper meaning? I feel like this is sort of breaking Siddhartha out of his previous thinking of everything he has been through only because this has been so different from all the different stages. The other stages have been somewhat similar but this is brand new for him. What do you guys think this passage meant?
ReplyDeleteThis is a very controversial quote and the only reason I am using this as one of my post is because I want you guys too look at the beginning of the quote and tell me whaqt stands out to you. “Govinda was standing in front of him, dressed in the yellow robe of an ascetic. Sad was how Govinda looked like, sadly he asked: Why have you forsaken me? At this, he embraced Govinda, wrapped his arms around him, and as he was pulling him close to his chest and kissed him, it was not Govinda any more, but a woman, and a full breast popped out of the woman's dress, at which Siddhartha lay and drank, sweetly and strongly tasted the milk from this breast.” When Govinda says "Why have you forsaken me?" If you really think about this it is sad how much Govinda relied on Siddhartha to lead him down the right path. But I think the main reason Siddhartha ends up "embracing" him is because Siddhartha empathizes for him knowing that he has, in a way, forsaken himself to. Do you guys agree? Just trying to get opinions. :)
ReplyDeleteFrom one of the presentations in class about karma I had a question keep coming back to my mind. If Siddhartha were to be reborn, what caste would he be born into? In my opinion, Siddhartha's arrogance would have caused him to be reborn into a lower caste, not an untouchable however because he did not harm anyone. On page 128, Hesse writes how Siddhartha's way in his mind was the only way to enlightenment. This is a very self-centered mindset. "For I cannot deny that my words about love contradict, seem to contradict, Gautama's words. That it precisely why I so greatly distrust words, for I know that this contradiction is an illusion." Siddhartha is essentially saying that he does not care for the almighty Buddha's teachings and that his way of thinking is not correct for the path to enlightenment. I thought that this was interesting and important for everyone to know that Siddhartha never lost his arrogance throughout the novel.
ReplyDeleteAfter doing my IOP and listening to other people’s IOPs, I thought more about how the book would have turned out if Siddhartha had pursued wealth and luxury as opposed to enlightenment. At first I thought about what it would be like if he had stayed with Kamala, but I quickly realized that Siddhartha would never have met Kamala had he been content with what society told him to aspire to. The book makes it clear that the impetus for his journey was his discontent with the culture he was born into, saying “Govinda knew Siddhartha would never become an ordinary Brahmin, a lazy purveyor of rituals, a greedy dealer in charms, a vain mouther of phrases, a base and devious priest, nor would he become a mindless good sheep in the common herd” (4). The final clause about “mindless good sheep” is the most explicit condemnation of the society around Siddhartha, and calling people who follow the status quo “sheep” seems to be relatively common—a common refrain among libertarians is that those who cede their civil liberties to the government are “sheeple”. This passage effectively sets up the entire book, because without it, Siddhartha is merely an exceptional man who will use his talents in the way that the society around him tells him to. The book makes it clear that doing so is not preferable to finding fulfillment on one’s own terms as Siddhartha does, and in doing so allows the story of Siddhartha’s quest for enlightenment to be told. Effectively, this book could not exist without Siddhartha finding his own path towards success, because without that there is no story to be told.
ReplyDeleteAnother passage that I found interesting was on page 92 when Siddhartha is consulting Vasudeva about becoming a better listener. " And I also thank you, Vasudeva, for listening to me so well! Rare are the people who know how to listen, and I have never met anyone who knew it so well as you. This too I will learn from you." This is important to the development of his character because he finally found someone to learn from in his life. Before this Siddhartha was reluctant to learn from others and his pride made him leave his previous teachers. But why did Hesse specifically choose Vasudeva as the teacher right for Siddhartha? My opinion is that because Vasudeva did not want to teach, Siddhartha saw this as another challenge to beat. I don't think that he completely gave up his pride to listen to the river, just a means to an end which was reaching enlightenment.
ReplyDeleteDuring my preparation for the fishbowl, when I had to decide which passages from Siddhartha had the greatest impact on me, I realized that most of those passages were from the chapter “Samsara.” This part of Siddhartha’s quest affected me most because Siddhartha’s descent into the excess and despair of the material world was the first mental shift (or “reincarnation”) not conscious decision, but through his inaction and lack of awareness. The idea that even Siddhartha, with all of his discipline and determined spirit, could succumb so easily to meaningless distraction, is quietly shocking and disturbing. Throughout this chapter, Hesse uses Siddhartha's unexpected change in values to force the reader to question his or her own susceptibility to social pressures and materialism, which I found to be an unusual and deeply personal effect.
ReplyDeleteHesse’s subtle use of lyrical structure in this chapter was especially interesting because it creates an entirely different mood from the serenity of the preceding chapters; the overall style, including the characteristic types of devices used, does not change, and the recurrence of similar sentence structures reinforces the unnerving subtlety of Siddhartha's gradual decline. For example, when Hesse compares Siddhartha's growing discontent to a dress that “grows old with time, loses its bright color, becomes stained and creased, the hems frayed, and here and there weak and threadbare places” (Hesse 63), he is employing parallel structure in a slightly different manner than previously, making the repetition just a bit faster and more irregular. The anaphora in “Samsara” is also faster and more chaotic in tone, revealing the obsessive quality of Siddhartha's mind, which once coveted knowledge and now covets wealth and sensual pleasures. Hesse explains (with strong emphasis and focus) that Siddhartha “envied [the child people]; the more he became like them, the more he envied them. He envied them the one thing that he lacked and that they had” (62). Once again, the sentence structure shows the altered inner workings of Siddhartha's mind, reminding the reader that all is not well. This technique in particular drew my attention because it changes the perception of Siddhartha and his mindset very smoothly and subtly, without the reader's knowledge. The small structural alterations, as a whole, both foreshadow Siddhartha's eventual loss of stability and play on the reader's emotional awareness.
Also, even though Siddhartha probably reached his moral low point during this part of his journey, I found that “Samsara” caused me to experience more compassion toward him. Do you think that Siddhartha's show of weakness in the face of temptation humanizes him? Or does it merely show another side of his irredeemably selfish soul? I don't know. I think this chapter's tension is mostly derived from that universal literary question, “Can this person be saved?” -- a situation that will always attract my attention, no matter how morally questionable the character. Is Siddhartha relatable enough at this point for the reader to care about his salvation? That's a different debate entirely.